Jacksonville Waterways Fort George River Sandbar Vessel Speed Regulation Task Force

>> Sewer waterways coordinator in Florida, Fish and Wildlife. My gay district 2. >> Not tunes. Jackson waterways, Scott comments by flood Waters way. >> Andrew Freight and Waterways Commission. >> Lieutenant Kevin Kilcoyne, JSO Marine Unit and Misty to Jason Byrne sector Jacksonville. >> Things Chrisman chief in the Waterways Department projects will thank you for all attending. Wouldn't stand up. And so plenty of allegiance. >> Pledge allegiance to the United States there and to the Republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay. Let's start out with a brief introduction of why we're here today. The proposed no wake zone for George reversing bars. An urgent and the central public safety measure are requiring boats to slow down in this congested area. It would reduce dangerous wakes protect swimmers and children help prevent collisions capsizing another potentially life-threatening boat accidents as recreational use. And boat traffic continue to increase establishing zone now is critical for protecting both current and future residents of Duval County. On June 10th Jackson Waterways Commission voted to form a joint task force with the sole purpose of collecting data August. 21st. This first the charge memo was issued with 3 can 3 commissioners named on that argument myself. Matthew Jones Jayhawks in which is out with an excused absence the zone and had a Pryor booked. Thank you, Shana. Believe Trip Commissioner Scott Thomas. We were all formed together to basically our job for this is to collect data available. Documentation with confidence is substantial evidence to support a finding by the FWC commissioners that an ordinance regulating vessel speeds in the forward Georges River. Sand Bar area is necessary to protect public safety as described in rule. 68 the 21.0 0, 4, of the Florida administrative code. It's all about public safety. That's why we're all here said about take. It's not about anything else about keeping people safe every year. That bar changes. I'm sure the guys on the water see it. The public that goes out there on the weekends during the summertime. If you if you go, you know, it's getting crowded every year loan. >> Reading from the Florida statutes, section 3, 27 46 limits municipalities but does not deny them from regulating vessel speed within title affected waterways. Further any vessel speed regulation passed by municipality cannot take effect until the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission makes a determination by substantial competent evidence that the ordinance is necessary to protect public safety. Florida Administrative code articulates a level of examples of documentation required for a municipal ordinance regulating vessel speed to be accepted by the FWC. And that's what we're here to do today or at least start the process. If you all look, I've got at least the evidence that we as the joint task force can come up with. Is there real footage? Documentation of the vessel increase in Duval County population expands is all that's in the legislative proposal that the joint task force is put together, which each of you have a copy of. We're getting a lot of people out there now. That's basically what it is. We just I we as a commission need to put together a packet to formally introduce it to the Jackson Waterways Commission. General counsel can make sure we've got all our t's crossed and I's dotted and then from there hopefully can goes right to the state. It's going to take a minute and just look at the pictures looks at. I know everybody up here on the board has seen it. What it's like about the only thing that I personally not being law enforcement could come up with as far as competent, substantial evidence would be in on the last page of the proposed of the photos, the Color Photos Section 3, subsection, 3 part B of 68. The 21, the level of 4 states that containing a documented navigational hazard of a nature that vessel operation in its vicinity at speeds in excess of slow speed minimum wake endangers the vessels or excuse me. The vessel or its occupants navigational hazards are presumed to exist within the market boundaries of more in fields as permitted by Section 3. 27.4, 0 Florida statute. If that last page right there doesn't show a navigational hazard. I don't know what will and I hold it up for the audience here. Got it. Perfect. Join him. Brian. You're way smarter than us. That is what we as the joint task force along with the population increase the vessel increase. It's about as far as we can come with information. So that's where we're kind of leaning on the FWC and the JSO Marine unit. I don't know if you all we're would be or were able to come up with in the calls for service any any kind of documentation from a law enforcement standpoint to put forth with the packet center, the FWC commissioners. And that's the point of the meeting here with if you have it be great, if not, this is what we need with that. Who would like to go first? >> So I made the request for our crime analysis unit to kind of pull calls for service in that area. Are cad system is kind of set up more first Pacific residential and business addresses. So I gave him a few different addresses to to pull. So if it's in a marine officer logs out on call for service out, there might be one Georges River, right, ID, one inner coastal waterway, it one little Talbot Island. There's you got a point. So I did all those in there to kind of see what they can come up with the scars like the last 2 years. Just general calls for service in that area might be helped. >> So folks are voting on ways, folks. They said, you know, city of Jacques can do a public records, request for, you know, statistical bait and stuff. And you know what? The number I know, just kind of our experience. There's not a substantial number of accidents, serious injuries and stuff like that. That happened in the in the area that would, you know, that would kind of supported on that side of things about congestion. There's not a way to quantify that. Statistically, you know, we don't have like traffic counters, you know, on the water like they use for highway projects and stuff so we can go come like him. Kevin said, we go off stats of calls for service, boating accidents. You know, injuries, stuff like that. >> Next. And that's the point of this is is just to basically get the information on of what we need as far as what the ogc needs on our side to present it formally to the Jackson Waterways Commission for can go any further to make the well. I'm thinking about it off. The top of either ease was was there a jet ski accident number this year that you can remember a couple years ago? I know. I know every year the jet skis get more and more out there. >> Yeah, and we you know, we have blocked complaints of Jesse's primarily in the no wake zone over near out of the county, the existing right. But I don't recall any we had with a couple swim or related medical, you know, issues instead of diving into shallow water and that type of thing. But I don't recall significant St accident. I do want to add just I'm not a lawyer by any means that you are an expert in it. But I wanted to clarify that. My understanding of the process is is that this would not go to the FWC commissioners, the commissioners review and vote on FWC established wake zones. Where is this would be a city ordinance that if Jacksonville past it, they would submit to FWC boating and waterways for review. But it doesn't actually go to the FWC commission. >> Years because we may need to get some clarification there, because I think if I remember correctly, we were advised that it went to the commission, but we've certainly found out is that that's what this meeting is about. Just getting our ducks in a row because we we feel that that's needed for public safety just gets more crowded every year out. There doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that part out. Commissioner gave you everything that yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Jones, the over the past few years, we've had a couple different scenarios. Al out there that we're we're trying to. >> Get the a thing with the getting the FWC, everybody to a listen to what what the request is out there. We've got the want to say that the state is requesting Ys of some of the I think the where the where the the state is out there, that they're wanting to slow down the boat traffic because they are having issues with forgive, which which one of them is asking forward. But there are several scenarios out there that the we can probably start to basically exploring what what can be done. But with the Shed creek of the one that we're looking to do something with. And I believe the there's a new legislation that's coming forth, the onus and and the I think January, where is basically allowing a a circumstances where the as before was unable to utilize, but we will want said gets against them. The state finally passes. All that were we can take in. Apply it to where you've got different scenarios where the the no wake zones, a speed, those speed zones is to where they were able to extend those perimeters. And we're in that possibly could be able to look at what they are, what we're trying to do here with the amount of voting in population out there. Not sure if you're too familiar with what what the state is is already a looking to bring bring for Ford on that so that that would be something that some possibilities. >> When you say state, you mean like the Kingsley Plantation area over there, okay, I'm not familiar with. >> It's because they are the they are having issues with the the boaters that are coming through there with a a basically it's impacting the what their dog in facility through their will to where it is, the number of boats and just keys that come through there is is is believable during the specially during the summer. The amount of people that go through there, you know, we've got issues where they're coming through the shed, Cree as a shortcut to get by through there. And they they have a just a short area where there to hold back on the going through and not being able to withhold of all the people in there, dogs and in the way that the they they can go through those areas. So hopefully with December or in January, that will finally have that to start moving forward for shed Crea. But the hopefully we can say that same scenario and use that out at 4 to one there. Good to sorry. >> Just a little bit of history, if you will. Several years ago, some of the lieutenants, 2 lieutenants, the sea for you on board came to my office and asking what the city could do to make something happen out there because it was getting so come congested and dangerous and the danger is that congestion and then attacked with this not just can't ski. You can blame jet skis all day long, but they're just a part of the problem is not always just a few. Sometimes it just blows that are plowing that billion there. And they do that. They just don't care. But that's way it is. And because of the congestion because of the Sanborn shown us that is out there in the Lacko, the ability to move to maneuver a boat out there. When you come in, you're going out if you're not careful, things happened. We've had I know there's been a couple of fatalities out there that made up that they're not voting crashes there, incidents where people just were found drowned. Now their how that happened, what happened is a question of some of them. But but, you know, law enforcement has as of expressed the concern not only have to see Jay so as well. The officers expressed concerns out there that that's something needs to be done in specifically. They wanted us to asked for no wake zones with the Alamo. Connie, there was a cut through the happen closer to the parkside. That was a cut through that opened up, I think did some damage and closed itself back up a little bit. So it kind of eliminated the issue for the time being. But as everybody knows this and is always moving it, you know, we can have a hurricane and it takes the whole thing under water. And when the water drains out, it's going to still be there. But I'm going to look a little different. It's just the way it is every high tide or low tide. It it, you know, we had you know, there has to be always something that identifies what's happening out there. So it's definitely is an area that you can't as far as the state. But, you know, I know that the state, you know, it sort of W C's boaters and waterways, the they have a hard time considering the shorelines and docks and has been an excuse for a no wake zone or slow speeds on. But out there, it's not going to be damage of sand because sands going to move around the matter what you do. That's not the issue. The issue, the issue is public safety and it is the the the dynamics of a blind areas congestion and just people not having the abilities to behave themselves the times that as much as I hate to say, you know, you should have a sign for everything, but some things. You just got to have a sign for Ford to be enforceable. And that's the issue that we have out there. So my question, I guess, to the JSO and the FWC is that the the all feel like is important enough for y'all to that support zone out there in that area. No matter how it happens, whether the state puts it in or the city finds the funding for the signage and puts them. That's another topic of the conversation. So the biggest thing that we need is in Tallahassee is we need and they're going to look at war, know if there's local support other than yeah, well, we don't have any statistical their statistics out there. There's there's no fatalities that are known. Injuries are non. You know, I know you guys go out there, right? Citations out there on a regular basis. My question is, do we need to do a public records request for y'all to come on board as a task force to help make this issue. It's not just the city issued mayor. I really notice it is just a state issue and is so law enforcement issue. And it's a you know, it's out there in our in our Duval County, per se. But but it is the issue. >> That makes sense. Perfect in response from the guys with that is. >> I would say that, you know, JSO Marine units going support anything that promotes public safety, especially on the waterways, like at the Navy, said it's going to be a maybe a little bit of a challenge to qualify. The statistics part, you know, compare how many more people are going out there. I think we all go out there and we all see more people out there, but proving it, it's going to be a challenge as well. I don't even know if that's required to make it a slow speed zone or not. But, >> yeah, I am. I tell people all the time. My my personal opinion doesn't really matter about things, you know, about the Buy, you know, the law and stuff like that. And so on. You know, obviously boating safety is a is, you know, one of our top priorities. And, you know, we all know how busy it gets out there. And, you know, some of the issues that come along. But, you know, it's basically just a, you know, for for sits looking at the criteria. And, you know, do we meet the criteria or not? And so? >> Yeah, I've I've I've been out there several times and it's like a fun fun, but also as as Jim, as well as Councilman Gay, pointing out 2, I mean, your stocks out there, there's erosion and the banks. What about and I know we're we're focused on public safety is what about wildlife manatees? I mean, the manatees and other wildlife, I mean, big, this would be a good benefit to them as well by slowing down the speeds on. I would think a lot of people go through there, especially when they leave on plane so that they don't is because it's so shallow that they think they can get out there. I'm playing so having speed limits of their would be would be great. Many ways. Thank you, chairman. >> It would just I think we can all agree it doesn't take a child to get hurt or even worse out there. It's not a matter of if now it's going to be when. So that's why I've always had the public safety part up top. It's it's everybody's duty to keep people safe. You don't even have to be a police officer to do that. So that's the that's that's what we're all here for. Obviously, we want all of the information that we can. We want to do it the right way. And this is a start. Ryan, you got anything you think you can act? I think we're on the. >> The correct first step to try to figure out how the evidence that are that is that's approved by FWC is justifiable events, right? There's there's other things that you we could throw in there. But there are certain criteria, right that you check to see to see make sure we stay in bounds for for what they will review. And I believe the captain was correct. I think their water, their staff mix the approval. But if we if they deny and we appealed, then I think it goes to their. >> They're they're bored. I think it's because if I remember correctly there, there is a process where peels of if it came to that. >> And just to also point out this not just the state parks is a national parks, they're the ones actually Mitt Kingsley. And they're the ones that came to the city initially to say, hey, what can we do where we got their issues are more resource base and they got a road in shoreline, Tony, very stark and vulnerable shoreline as well as a public boat dock there it with high traffic going by. So that's a concern of theirs with their visitors coming by water. But they're they're definitely they voice their support for this effort, the state parks, and they've they've they deal with the the congestion as well. I don't know if they've taken a formal stance on, you know, whether they would outwardly you through their advocacy towards this or not. But we can certainly reach out to the local manager and see sounds good to my guests to an end. >> I got a lot of questions sort of that was at that are in the middle. First of all, our voters are ready responsible for their own wake taking. If they're if they swamp another boat or anything of that nature, they are responsible for their way to be just as of right now. And then is this a seasonal thing for the summer? Hey, Santa blanketed no wake zone. 24 7, 3, 165 days a year. And it's only a certain those are few of my questions. Like I say, this ballooning to other spots, too around that I know motor boaters like that part the South Jacksonville sometimes and Prosper Creek. I don't want to see everything coming. No wake zone. >> Yeah, I mean, that's certainly not a meeting of this. This task force is spoke solely on the Fort George area. Good job. >> Commissioner, you, you. Good points of this particular area is only the only boating traffic that goes out. There is the boating traffic that are going out there. This not a pass through is not a way to get to the ocean is not a is not even a, you know, both the big that fish don't even go in that area to fish by boat. As you go around, getting through there all the way. One thing you got, it have local knowledge to get through that part. But the second thing is to get out into the ocean and how the inlet there is another dynamic situation where he's always moving also. So unless you're a regular know how to, you know, I know without with sheriff's office, we step daughter about twice a year by helicopter and take pictures of it. Just so our case, we had an emergency, we know which in a letter which Bill Channel to get through if we had to. So it's it's a destination is what it is. And there's no residential a fact. Now they're whatsoever. Is all state lands or or property or National Park Service is the 3 land owners in that particular areas. All it's all a matter of the same thing. Kind of like what they have added an assault springs to where they have to regulate the, you know, no wake zone going into wake zone coming out all because of congestion. Simple as that is the majority of it. And I think it's it is it's easy to thank your pictures are dynamic chairman. A picture tells the picture period. So to answer your question, is it will it affect other people that don't that want to go to as slows people down getting other destinations? That's not the situation out for George per se when it comes to that. And I think Jim really hit on the head for George is a destination unknown. >> Didn't think about that. It's not a cut through. That's not part of our great shots. And under people go to for George to the for George. So it's not like you said, cutting through from sisters, great head on out to the Atlantic. You think the vessels that go to Fort George, that is their destination and that's where I well, it's not. I think I know that's where the congestion come from. And I do know the little bar you're talking about on the books for you would think with that knowledge, it be that much more respect than voters that are Mort. There's not unfortunately there's and then also I mean, again, voter knowledge is a is a plus, too, knowing your own wake, if you're in a big boat, you got a big lake, their jet ski down and for the boaters that are on shore. >> If I'm worried, I put my bow out and park, you know, more about I know it can take the wakes. But with that being a destination, I was I thought it was cut through. That does make a difference. Yes. >> Mr. Chairman of the chair that if a male, so is it the wake perspective of it is not the that's just a small part of this issue is the speed. Yes, you know, you reacting to something if something is happening like so I swim and then you're coming through there and or or if a boat is pulling out after they just don't cut themselves, lose all the anchors and pulled in, pulled out to leave all they know they have. They have the courage and everything. So they have to react right away or else they're going to go into another boat. And so this is a is a dynamical area that a lot of things like I said to me and a lot going on at one time out there. So if you're coming through on a jet ski and Jessica, you do leave a good way, by the way, but coming through their jet ski that and you're up on a plane, even you don't have time to react if a boat has just broke loose on the shoreline and the and pulled their anchor and trying to pull out if all of a sudden there's a jet ski, that's the type of thing is that is it just needs to be slow down out there, period because of the congestion completely agree. >> And like I said, that's that's the goal is just to slow things down there because I've been going out there for 3 decades, 30 years. The main thing that I've noticed, how many boats we have out there now versus when I was 17, I mean, when I was teenager the bars where there was we were skewed from one end to the other. We don't have that anymore. It is one giant sand bar with little. I would even call navigable but small channels and fingerlings for the boats to go through. The majority of the boats are anchored up on the sand bar and the people that aren't familiar with that area come in. They're hot. I mean, they come in. They're hot because they don't see it any speed zones. It's not necessarily put blame on them a new area and that it's not a no wake zone come in. They don't know what they're coming into until they see all the votes. And I just I feel that something needs to be done before. It's too late. That's why we're all in the same room today. Might its opinion. I think it's 20 years passed it. I know the conversations been picked up in the past. I've heard it's the cans been kicked down the road. I've heard it all. I've got 4 years here. Want to see it through the end. Somebody is going to tell me, no, it's not going to happen. And if that's what it is, that's what it is. So with that being said, I think if a 70 anybody got anything else than 100, no, there's no vote today. This is an informational only meeting. That's it. We have. We're going to public comment will as we close in on absolutely good job of the things we get to work at the. >> The state or the national. Do they have a boat ramp the the utilize? There's a just a dock. >> National park just has a dock. But the city has the boat ramp at Alimacani. So I think technically we could expand the zone 500 feet north of. >> That is what it is that you don't leave is that thousands put that they that's what they're looking to propose. >> Believe in the in November, the U.S. was supposed to go into a full full. The new law is saying that there's you've got the the original no wake zone for the Bauer am. But then if there is a, I guess, Lyon. >> Blind curves and that that we can extend that the they're saying if there's and 2 >> public facilities that qualify. >> And there was a gap in between. I guess they're going to use to be some minimum. There's a critical distance the had to exceed or be within in order to keep the continuous, but they're going to expand that overlap area to make that gap. >> More achievable, as I think this same thing we're looking at it shared grief is that this could possibly be the same scenario where we can makes picks bandit to get the the maximum that that we can get. It may not get >> full area, but if we can get a majority more. >> The a possibility that, you know, if he would accept. >> Right. So I think in that situation, add creek and then for this to and if we could document evidence of blind corners, those could be married together with the boat ramp. And then if re, if the distance between is under certain amount of those could be cobbled together to write a good patch where we where jurors and I guess where I'm going with it, is it the most was it wasn't there, then the possibility of not having a blind corner, but >> on the big weekend >> that all these boats are out there there. There is one blind corners that all these boats that are lined up along the shoreline is creating them line poor. So I think there's a possibility of how our presentation is to if you see is what we've got to, I guess get dialed in with them. Yeah, I would. I would you? >> Public safety boating safety is also a qualifying factor. So I think that would be our number one priority. But then we can also layer these other criteria in there to strengthen the case. But I would advise thank you. Good job. >> I guess this would be a question that would end up being approved by either. You know, the commission and city Council is when it comes right down to it. But the question that we need to request that are we requesting the state to do this or we request and the permitting authorization for the city to put it in. That will be a direction that we need to go. >> Of some bait basically of we would be doing as the waterways Commission doing a a a recommendation request to the state. >> Of from what I understand and and correct me if I'm wrong, is that basically they'll approve. But they're going to want us to come up with the funding to put in all the signage note there. >> Yes, absolutely. And I was always under the impression that the sun it would fall on us, but not as owning guy. The guy speak a different language and on this I would just. >> C kills. General counsel needs to clarify, writes, my understanding is different. My understanding is that under this cry to their certain criteria where the state establishes that main reasons and stuff like that. But for a for a situation like this, the city is stab wishes. It has a city or county ordinance and then applies for a permit from FWC to basically make it legal in in force. And that would be a. >> As far as your understanding, that wouldn't be with state commissioners to 7 commissioners. That would be Underwood, boating and waterways. Got off. Got a flow chart. I can e-mail sure. >> If it helps in it, it basically outlines that the city passes the ordinance. They submit a proposal to FWC boating and waterways for review. Fwc, boating and waterways can request additional information if needed before they make a decision. Right. And it's it's kind of a process of that. And they review it to meet the criteria. And then ultimately they're just deciding whether or not they're going to issue a permit. >> Got it, if you could forward. That would certainly appreciate it. And knows you see may already have the once again. That's what we're all here for to cover basis. >> It would be good to get get the flow chart. But but you you are correct is basically of it. And what we've been meeting with them Pryor about is of making sure that once we do submit the it is within the parameters, the would be let the permits will be allow allowable. So is our responsibility to do the due diligence to see where these circumstances would apply. Then we would submit it to FWC. And then from that from what I understand is then then it the permit will be issued. But then we would have to fund the signage out there so that that's pretty well where then then we have to go. But the city council and say, you know, we we need to fund this. So that's kind of the procedure there. But the main thing is getting the get laid out and and understood what the parameters are this allowed before the the signage out there, right. >> One question I do have and I've had this drill in my head for a month. This is substantial, competent evidence. No, those are 3 words that can be very, very great. So I would like to go on the record if if you captain and you can find out whether or not the same bar itself is considered a navigational hazard. And if the answer to that is yes. Would that satisfy subsection 3 b of 68 Delta? 21 dot double 0, 4, >> Alas, to question. Yeah, I know you're not an attorney. I'm not put that on your plate for yes or no, but but I will somebody can answer it. We just need to just need to find out because I know that that is probably the hurdle that's always been battled because what's the definition of competent substantial evidence had he had even defined. It's not like you have a highway patrol. We wrote 19 tickets between mile marker this market that are homicide. We've had a, you know, this mountain shootings and sons. Is it too? What is competent, competent, substantial evidence when it comes to water safety congestion and vessels, the gym, their chair. Can we? >> Addressed the issue of whether it should be seasonal or not? I think that I'm going to say here in this particular situation, seasonal doesn't matter to me. Nothing is whether the day is nice or not. You're around here in Jacksonville. So I would like to suggest to recommend it, you know, come to the conclusion that it be a year-round zone period that keeps confusion down for voters to know it's that way. I agree to that home. My initial thought was season. >> Spring to fall. That's when that's when it gets back. But yes, what a jump must one full ever Christmas day. People go on their boats year around this one of the perks we have of living in Florida. So I think if we're going to do it, we need to go for year-round. The last thing we want is a crowd to get accumulated out there for winter party 10 years from now and a slip back and go well, we should have been the the year-round. I thought it was. If if that gets approved, it would probably if somewhere down the road we needed to back it up to seasonal of sync with the permit being year-round. Once again, I'm not an attorney. I think it would be easier to back it up towards a seasonal if the be in the future versus going from seasonal to year-round. That's what I think like I said, we're not voting today. We're just we're spit balling were tossing ideas out and getting information. That's what we're here for today. I think you will be you will be around. So I would agree to agree with you see is me anything else anybody would like them for we go to public comment. Move a few out there, OK? So we will close discussion on this and we will invite our public commenters one of the time cards on the way. All right. For the course will limit public comment to 3 minutes each as much as I'd like to give everybody all the time that what we all got other things we have to go to Lou. First, Mr. New Knee. >> All right. My name's John Knee. 83. 56 past summer, Jacksonville, Florida, 3, 2, 2, 1, 6, City Council resolution Twenty-twenty Three's Early 1, 9, City Council district, 4 CPAC planning District 3 school board district 3. No one thing I mean coming to where we meetings for a number of years. And one thing I've come to realize there is a pecking order. You have federal state. We have a preservation for us, you know, and then broken down into we have or CPAC Sporting City Council districts. You know, I participated in this rezoning in Jacksonville. You know, it was a COVID. 23. The biggest takeaway I got from this was that 90% of all the waterways in Duval County is private. Only 10%. The waterways. You know, it is public. So, you know, with you know this. And so what were you realizing in scene and United Plourde? And this is just been a great meeting, you know, and I wrote down here and read islands known and that was just a recent joint effort with the Jacksonville Port Authority engine. Yeah, let's keep it on top. Okay. Will I am? And the point with that is read Island, you know, used to be that you have access, you know, via land. Now it's, you know, only just will be the the waterway. So so, you know, the point is for Georgian what you're talking about right there. It is a destination. You know, I think you really nailed it with that. So, you know, as far as that is, the primary focus is that area of the waterway and then with the safety parameters that, you know, that will ultimately be established. You know, so I really just get where that is the focus, but down the road, you know, in the entire state of Florida, you have to realize that we have to I would hope provide additional public access on our waterways, you know, for the benefit of everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming, Mister newly. >> Next up is going to be Lisa, me to. >> I'm Lisa Meta and I am first a voter and second, the owner of Freedom Boat Club. And thank you for letting me speak about a place that is so near and dear to my heart. Malcolm Gladwell wrote a book that said it's called Outliers. Says If you have 10,000 hours in the subject, you're an expert. I call myself an expert in for George and then try not to get emotional because I love it so much from doing flow to Palooza, aka Palooza. I had a houseboat out there and we did a church service in baptized people. I did but abrasion. I've done all kinds of things. And I've been going there for 35 years. And I think I have more expertise then all of you because I used to spend every single Friday to Sunday out there every single weekend. We would stay out altogether. What I have witnessed over the years and I want to add a couple of things. I am a stand for boat safety. Our members go through rigorous training. We write them up. If they do something wrong. When I'm not at Fort George, I call on my members all the time. I call the boat say, hey, can you go talk to this? Both they did blah, blah, blah. I go up and tell them and also a stand for no alcohol in voting. I don't drink. I don't want to it's not a popular stand that I have. But I am a stand for that. What I have seen over the years is the incredible change of the sandbar. If you go look at aerials, we used to be I don't know. I'm not good with feet, but we used to be so many feet on the inside away from the road. If you go looking at aerial there, we we all talk about, we think we're going to be at the road at some time and all that sand has built it in salted. And what's happened is people are not responsible. Andy, I watched last weekend guy, Triple Motors, 3 boats raft it up and upon playing right by us. And the boats are doing this in, you know, so I want to talk about the safety issue. There was a jet ski accident out there this summer. It may not have gotten reported, but it was I have seen a guy almost drown. I actually was the one that was aware and saw that he was thinking and we had they heeded had to get air for life flighted out of there because I always have my wits about me. And I have watched jet skiers and I actually called JSO this summer, watching them race, not speed. They were actually stopping and racing. And so what's happened with the exacerbation of I mean, I'm I am responsible for some of this. We have 42 votes. I could have 80 people at Fort George on a day if they do the morning in the afternoon Jacksonville Boat Club with the growth of all of that with social media. Everybody knows about it now and everyone wants to go and it still to Dan and people aren't respectful and they don't watch what they're doing. And it's a problem and I'm not a person that's a stand for no wait. But in this area for the safety of kids, for the safety of I mean, these people that are driving the jet skis drinking and driving and if they lose control, it's a problem. And I watched a jet ski or come across the sand bar hits the thing and fall over and actually. >> Police is much as I could leave them up there all afternoon. All right. It does have to be on the 3 minutes and you're okay. I apologize, but I am I >> support this incredibly and I think it's the right thing to do for the safety of of of everybody that's out there. Appreciate you. And I will help the way I can. Thank you. Thank you. >> Okay, with public comment being done, we kind of went a little backwards on the agenda and I think it's until just now we're going to win and are open to discussion by anybody. So I do want to thank everybody that showed up out there also. We certainly appreciate, John, whatever help you can give us. We would like to make this happen. Thank you. Council gave written Jim, many everybody. And with that, we'll adjourn the meeting