City Council

>> Welcome to the city of St. Petersburg City Council meeting and your elected officials our mayor Kenney well is to one and Council vice chair, hopefully Curtis. District 2 Brandi gapper district 4 with that kind of way. Council chair Deborah big spenders. Gina Driscoll. John Muhammad. And district day Richie Floyd. >> Everyone we welcome you to the 11/7/2024. City Council meeting with the road. Please and what's your big Sanders year Driscoll here Muhammad Floyd here, they're just near Denver. Thank you joining us this morning for the indication is Chapman John Wentworth the United States Coast Guard and following that indication we're going to have a moment of silence followed by the pledge of allegiance would you please join me in standing. >> Oh GOD we come before you today with grateful hearts for the privilege to serve in lead in this beautiful city of St. Petersburg we asked for your wisdom guidance and peace to be with each member and all who are gathered here today. Grant us Open minds and hearts that we MAY work together in unity and understanding making decisions that promote justice compassion and the common good for all who call this city home. Help us to approach each discussion with respect each decision with integrity and each action with humility MAY we be ever mindful of the needs of those that we serve, especially the vulnerable and the undeserved so that St. Petersburg MAY florish as a community of hope opportunity and inclusion we thank you for the diverse gifts experiences and perspectives represented here MAY they contribute to the richness of this community and the success of their endeavors. Bless this meeting and guide our steps as we strive to honor you and all that we do with your grace and peace we pray Amen. >> Please join me in a moment of silence as we honor our fallen first responders officer gene. The Senate. End of watch Nov., 10 1961. >> It really is of United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under GOD indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. >> Thank you CHAIRMAN What word when an invitation. Council members we have an agenda before us today with request to add f f 9 and pulled from cd 11 and delete j one with that change entertain a motion for approval of approval. >> Now that we have a motion in second can you please open the machine for voting council members cast their votes. Seeing that are present council members have voted can you please tell me in an ounce of votes. MADAM Chair, the motion to approve the agenda passes unanimously with councilmember behalf of being absent. Thank you. Council members we have in the consent agenda before us. Entertain a motion for food approval second we have no cars, no cars didn't okay. We have a motion in Israel properly seconded can you Sheena voting for the consent agenda. Council members please cast your votes. Seeing that are present council members have voted can you please tell me to announce the vote. MADAM CHAIRMAN much too consent agenda passes unanimously with councilmember Mama being absent. Thank you know we're going to move into our awards and presentations item d one that will be presented by our very own. Mayor can of 2 Welch it is our veterans day proclamation and the 2024 honored veteran award to captain missed me. And I also see our council member Brandon Garrett joining him at the podium welcome good afternoon. MADAM Chair and actually COUNCILMAN Garrett will be presented a proclamation honoring. On a veteran I just wanted to wish everyone a happy NOVEMBER and to honor all of our veterans if you're a veteran. Here today would you raise your hand or stand. Please let us. And MADAM Chair, I wanted to congratulate you on your reelection looking forward to the next 4 years working with thank you so much. We have a man, thank you. All right good afternoon, everyone. I wanted just to go ahead and first invite my friend to come up in join me here at the podium. So we are going to be presenting this proclamation to him today and what it just introduced him that first of all start out by saying that I'm very proud to do this today, thank you for mayor for the opportunity. Mitch is a district to residents. He is a very active district to residents and we were quite frequently with him on issues concerning the district and his neighbors. He is a fantastic advocate for his neighborhoods and I'm very very glad to be here today to introduce him to all of you and to give him this proclamation. So before I read the proclamation want to tell you just a little bit about Mitch. So Mitch is a West Point graduate and an army veteran who achieved the rank of captain before transitioning into a distinguished career at Raytheon technologies where he retired as a senior vice PRESIDENT After 31 years of faithful service in 2023. He was inducted into the senior Hall of Fame in recognition of his leadership and his contributions, he's a passionate community advocate, where he has spread joy every single year through holiday caroling at Maria manner and Saint Anthony's hospital for over 25 years. He has served as the chair of the board of directors for the Pinellas education Foundation twice, and if the member and previous chair of the independent citizens referendum oversight Committee. Perhaps near us to his heart though has been his investment of over 10,000 volunteer hours that have been shared with his love of cycling and the establishment of the project hero hub of Pinellas which is the largest hub in the nation for project hero. For those who maybe are not aware of what project hero is it is a nonprofit that helps injured veterans and first responders recover through cycling over the last 10 years mitch's chaired the Florida honor ride which is the largest in the country with over 5,000 cyclists participating. So Mitch I want to congratulate you on all of your work. Thank you so much personally and on behalf of the residents that you serve in our area for your outstanding commitment to the community for everything that you do and with that I would like to present to the proclamation of the city of St. Petersburg which treats whereas annually since NOVEMBER night Nov. 19 19 the United States has observed veterans day first commemorating as armistice day by PRESIDENT Woodrow Wilson and whereas veterans day is an opportunity for all Americans to reflect on the heroism of those who served in the us armed services and share our gratitude for their sacrifice and whereas on Nov. 11th, all citizens are invited and encouraged to celebrate veterans day by honoring our veterans who have given so much to ensure that their fellow Americans are able to live their lives in peace and whereas the city of St. Petersburg is proud to act recognize the courage valor and contributions of veterans and their families in support of our freedoms and whereas the city of St. Petersburg annually honors and pays tribute to local veterans who have served with honor and distinction. Now therefore I councilmember Brandi gathered in collaboration with Kenneth t y mayor of the city of St. Petersburg Florida. Do hereby proclaim Mon. Nov. 11th 2024 as veterans day in our city and encourage all citizens to join in celebrating the strength and courage and the support that they give to our community city and our country. Thank you Matt. >> I would I would be remiss in not recognizing a couple of folks that have been a part of my journey. You heard Pinellas education Foundation. With us today is the current chair on the past year. So it's that's a pasta title as Bob I like and today we just voted at the foundation to make sure we give a million to affected teachers and administrators in the county from the hurricane relief. Also with me is Tom Moore Thomas a senior, but it was a senior vice PRESIDENT United Healthcare is now with more insurance options. He's also a co-chair of the Florida on a ride in a very high member within our project your organization enjoyed his support over the years. I just wanted to say I wasn't expecting this. I came into the Army through West Point and I joined when the Vietnam War was going on so is not a real popular time to be in the military of just before I graduated did not shut down. So I was stationed in Germany and it was during the Cold War and our job was to protect the Fulda gap against the Russians and the East Germans from coming through. And as one of my. Fellow soldier said one time you must have done a really good job because they never came through. It's a so that was the year that I was in service and then they've been in St. Petersburg for off over 40 years and love this city and I love the support we've received from all the things that are dear to my heart and. Hopefully dirty stead used to work for me Charlie gurney so. Thank you thank you again. >> Please please the on. >> Congratulations match. We're sure the commission. >> Cases now we'll move into open form for can you please read the rules if you wish to address City Council on subjects other than public hearings across that additional items listed on the agenda. >> Please sign up with the clerk. Only the individual wishing to assigned to inform she. We see the residents on his of property. Business owners in the city or their employees MAY speak all issues discussed and are open for mostly limited to issues related to the city of St. Petersburg government. If you're speaking to an item on the agenda you MAY only speak once during the open form when the item comes up on the agenda in order to provide an opportunity for all citizens to address Council. Each individual be given 3 minutes to speak and after which the markets phone will be muted. If you wish to address to the council to the zoom meeting you must use the raise hand feature been in the zoom app or inter star 9 on your phone at the time the agenda items address when it's your turn to speak, you'll be on unit next a state your name. And address at the conclusion of your comments or when you're East 3 minute I'm in it. You've been unit. All raise hands will be lowered after each agenda item regardless of the method of participation use normal rules apply, including the 3 minute time limit on comments the requirement that any presentation materials must be submitted in advance of the meeting and the rules of decorum it's like on the comet is disrupted by violations of the rules of the core cheers authorized to accept public comment by alternate means including by email only we do have one speaker. We know we are. >> Please go to either podium state your name and address for the record and you have 3 minutes to address City Council. >> Good afternoon. My name is Teresa billiard my address is 7, 5, 8.58 them in a Northeast St. Petersburg Florida. I'm a 56 year resident of the edge more And I have 19 years working in communities and neighborhoods throughout the city of St. Petersburg both with the Americorps Vista program and with the city of Saint Pete's neighborhood partnership program. I've come to you today to speak about our neighborhood specifically. I'll start with some references to city's vision twenty-twenty and also science direct dot com. Second a reference to publications from cdc osha National Institute on health in regards to hydrogen sulfide gas and its effect on people in animals. First of all. Vision twenty-twenty mentions neighborhood and residents. Residential neighborhoods. And it I quote from that document the traditional neighborhoods in the city of Saint Pete were developed prior to World War 2. Neighborhood's the cure narrow deep lot slate a traditional grid pattern with narrow streets lined with sidewalks our neighborhood doesn't have a whole lot of sidewalks but we are traditional neighborhood. Also according to vision, the vision twenty-twenty developmental regulations are that protect and enhance the city's older traditional neighborhoods is a priority. Residential roadways are designed to be light duty limited to passenger cars and service truck. Livable streets 2 from 2021 says a residential Street in the street where people live including children adult elderly individuals and characterized by its potential to serve as a nurturing environment for families and community. >> Second on the agenda a 100 and sulfide gas other than sulfide gas. Has. Looking through my notes I do this kind of pass this morning. Hydrogen sulfide a colorless flammable gas was uncharacteristic of odor of rotten it takes. It has a propensity to cause headaches nausea and other problems and is also contact your tent, it is highly toxic to aquatic wildlife in an interview with the respiratory system of the aquatic wildlife. Essentially suffocating animals even when there's oxygen present. Now all these 2 things together for you because I guess you're wondering what's going on with this. The reason I came today to talk about this is. >> I have heard rumors and ideas floated around the city department representatives that have been expressing a possible proposed holding site for. >> Thank you so night, thank you do we have anyone on zoom. No one single case so now we're close open formal will move to our new ordinances. >> MADAM Chair, if I could I just wanted to I think where MS. Hill year might be going use that. There's concern that per year Park might be used as a dms site and that is I think MISTER Administrator Jeffries will have a report later but that is not going to happen at that location. Thank you MADAM Chair, thank you and it's in on the boy. We thank you so much okay, so now we'll close of a former will move to a new ordinance is taking up the one player can you please read that item am. We're both ordinance number 6, 0, one h ordinance enacting year in appropriation adjustments for fiscal year 2024. We're operating budget and capital improvement program budget and adjustments to the fiscal year, 2025 budget 8 and the public hearing for the items on Nov. 21th and we have no cars. >> We thank you so joining us as budget director missus Elizabeth mcauliffe's. In afternoon chair and City Council members this afternoon's the first reading of the fy 2425 budget cleanup ordinance also known as budget reconciliation at the bfmtv eating this morning with a detailed discussion of both the fy 2425 recommended budget entries and adjustment this afternoon I have the same presentation from this morning's be fnt and Council prefers I can give us some rights version of the presentation or I can answer any questions on the report and the public hearing of the cleanup ordinance is scheduled for Thu. 11/24/2024. Move approval, second. It's a 21th. Nov. 20 days of the wrong names are. >> Nov. 21th now it's been properly motion and second it for you one can you please open the machine for boating council members can you please cast your votes saying that are present counts seeing that are present well who is it. It didn't take okay soon enough for the council members to can you please tell me to announce the vote. >> Chair the most to prove agenda item e one passes unanimously with council member Ahmed being absent. Thank you thank you for that thank you missus. >> And we now move to eat who can you please read that item post ordinance number 6, 0, 2, h an ordinance of the city of St. Petersburg Florida amending chapter, 22 division 4 of the city of St. Petersburg of the St. Petersburg city code relating to the supplemental. Firefighters retirement system by amending section 22 dash 2, 0, 1, in to remove the available availability of a rare variable cost and cost of living increase Cola. Pension accounts originally established before 10/1/2008. Providing for an annual Cola beginning on JANUARY one 2025. Ferpa to for pension accounts originally established before 10/1/2020 22,008. Providing for the payment of such annual Kona to pension accounts if the member for whom such account was established detained or would have the teen 8.60 prior to Oct. 1st of the year and providing an effective date we have no cars on this item and then public hearing for this item is also on Nov., 20 22. And joining us is a human resource director Chris to Chris Aaron. >> Thank you chair, good afternoon council members. Before you is the proposed ordinance to amend the the code for the supplemental firefighters. Pension plan. What is the specific more specifically what is proposed is to and a Cola cost of living adjustment annually 4 members who retired Pryor 2 OCTOBER one. 2008. The current members who are active and who retired after 2008 11 2008. Already have a Cola established in the plan and that is 2% per year provided the chapter one 75 money is available. And that was negotiated. Around 2008 2009 time period. At the time the union began bargaining for a bullet and 2006 2000 2007 range. Well we had a contract open. Over the years that the parties refined their proposals and then in 2009. They signed the agreement. Where that. Pension was established so anyone who retired after 2008 was eligible for that and that left approximately at the time 155. Retirees that were in the plan that were not eligible for this benefit. Ever since that time that group of those retirees have asked the union and asked city officials to do something to to give them a Cola and over the years. We have given them a discretionary call is that is part of it in the code right now that every year in ministration can review. The plan and take a look at it and over those years. Since the plan went into effect the entire pension plan and that was 1970 by the way the group has received 7 Colas and I can give you the years that those occurred. A number of notes here. It started in 1998 and again in 2006. 2013. And if you bear with me. It will be able to get to the other years. Another one in 2017 and then too. Recent in 2324. So they have received some discretionary call is but they are not permanent and that is what they are seeking with this and administration. We listened to the group and has proposed a one percent Cola for them every year. Up to one percent depending on the cpi. I know you have questions so gladly pause there and feel the question on some member gathered. Thank you MADAM Chair, Chris Sanchez havoc a couple of questions and thank you for the one on one to kind of dig into this a little bit more and explain it, but we had our budget and finance meeting this morning and we had it kind of came up you know in talking about the pension plans and all of that we know we have collective bargaining coming up again with the union and the spring. So understanding that you know really the the ask of the group is a permanent Cola and that is what this item is for and as that matter of process can a permanent Cola be part of a new collective bargaining agreement for this particular group. >> What the group that they call themselves the one 50 foot 3 2008. They are no longer employees they're not represented by anyone. So there is no bargaining they are not part of the collective bargaining. >> The net there would be no other mechanism to provide a permanent Cola other than this action we have to correct it strict. One of the things that came up and time hopefully you had an opportunity to speak with legal and maybe you guys were able to kind of talk about this before but between meetings. >> Was this. Kind of precedent of doing something every year and what that looks like according to state a statue that kind of sets it up as though it kind of his assumed that is a permanent and Jan you are not that meeting but I assume that they told you kind of what we were talking about okay all right so can you speak to that as it room like if we did not do up Harmon it but we're doing something every year and setting that precedent what what the state statute look at that as it's not legal issue. It's an actuarial issue and that's how it's come up in that. There are many groups that participating in the pension and the review of the pension in the functioning. You've got the board you have participation by the state of Florida. You have the administration you have you need to have all sorts of people that are involved. You also have people who provide the back on the information for the pensions. You have sure is that review the plan's every year that. Of new benefits things like that if you have consultants who oversee the investments, you have investment managers. This is a whole huge group of people that are involved in this and my recollection is that I was raised by the actuary because it's not a question of pain out that you would if you give this variable coma. Year to year that you would be coming to a position where you would have to it would be a question not would you have to funding though what you see now the actual funding record of what costs would be the question would be because it goes to the state every year for consideration for approval. Report comes to the state for approval and when everything it's approved a city in the pension fund received the distribution that's a premium tax monies. Further complicated and they don't want to tune into the weeds. There's a state statute on the pensions for firefighters is chapter one 75. If you are a local law plan. Under chapter one 75 you're not a statutory plan, your local law plan. So your plan itself is in city code. However, city code has to comply in certain ways with the state statute. And when the state statute becomes has more benefits available, you know we staff. Using the premium tax monies is that there's a lot of people there's a lot of people involved so the way this came out years ago was that the actuary was concerned that and I believe there is some correspondence with the state. If you continue to give the ad hoc coma. That the state even though it's not have it's not calling it would become permanent in terms of pain. You would doubt turn it into something that you have to fund it. He would have to fund it in the same way that you see the next year we're here even though in code you didn't turn it into prominent Cola I know that was a lot that I just shared it's very complicated. Yeah. And you would have to fund it at the amount of. The most recent or an average of. It was never very clear on that as more of a historical look that if you were providing this variable call at some point. The state holding that premium tax money was going to say hey you're basically turning this into a permanent Cola and again that's not that must that be city code would change here in pain the colon out to retirees it's what the state would require through the actuarial approval. 2 pay the city and the pension fund. The annual talks premiums. For example fund the whole lot but everybody post 2008. Okay. And eventually we a liability on the books and it would show up in our funded ratio. And as of right now that proposed-479,000 dollars a year. We're told that could be that could be the amount of the liability whether we made this decision or not if we just said we just want to do another year and then that flagged because that would be than 3 years in a row. >> Has there been precedent where people have kind of got caught in this situation. I don't have an answer to you. But we could look into it. My understanding is it was a concern that was raised by after because every year the actual is calm and they reported it Jim Moret in person and so they're long conversations every year at one meeting a year by the actress and off the bench more time to actuary and police and fire well at the state statutory requirements, talk to one 75 and talk to one 85 right so it was in those conversations with the actual are concerned if you continue to get a nap Cola more often than not at some point the state might take the position that this has become funding perspective. >> My concerns are just 2 fold and then all stop and hear from my colleagues, but one like we talked this morning about you know kind of the percentage of funded on the plan and you know this time last year was 94.9 4% funded this year it just happens to be a 11112,000 or 2 percent sorry. And so this year I mean looks great right with you not as worried about the fund but moving forward and then to also know that that you know is coming from the general fund and then that concerns me with our collective bargaining coming up if that. Have some adverse effect to the collective bargaining for that >> And it's it's certainly not a guarantee that it has some automatic effect but if the funding ratio continues to decline because of this because of the added liability it could inhibit. The parties from agreeing to or benefits on top of that because you wouldn't want to jeopardize the health of the plan. So adding adding this to the to the liability sheet to you know that's not it does have an impact. Thank you vice-chair Garrett, thank you MADAM Chair. Ok let's just stop. Chris I'm going to pick up where councilmember Gabbert left off so. For what you're saying. If this were to have a negative effect on the on the percentage funded of the pension. Going forward. Not that it necessarily will but it could affect future negotiations. I know a big part of this was equity I would think anybody up here disagrees that we want to be equitable. I just want to put some data around that so we're talking about I think I it should have the number right in front of me and I apologize about a 100 and 58 members. But this affects on Wharton and 49 49.5 7, 8, And how many how many members are in the pension program post 2008. Active 3. So how many well to be active plus anybody that turned 60 after 2008 it wouldn't just be active. >> Of the post 2008 ones that are receding the 2% goal, it's 110. >> And then everybody else is still active. And Campbell is that they're active for folks who haven't hit age 60. >> If there's a way to find out in Mexico minutes, total participants whether they're taking a benefit or not currently in the post 2008. I would I'd really like to have that number. If we can find that. Thus the second part of it is okay, let's talk about the chapter one 75 has the chapter one 75 money since 2008 not been available. Did we not receive. Healthy check. Okay, and so since 2008 there has been some sort of Cole addition to the plan. Correct, whether it be it. Just to clarify it went into effect into JANUARY one of 2010, okay years use MAY 2010 10. The cola has been funded at to fully to person whether that at the full 2% correct okay. Again going back to something councilmember gather brought up. They're there was a negotiation. Pre 2008, but I'm assuming those members had representation in a negotiation but then whether from 1970 to 2008 at some point those members had representation during collective bargaining for their benefits correct they could they could have bargained a call at any time during contract negotiations, okay. So that's that's the part of a struggle with a little bit. And so I listen, I've spoken to some of these numbers I I I get the intention of this. But I sure wish I struggle with it because. They had an opportunity to negotiate. They're renegotiating now on their own outside of collective bargaining. Current member current members and people who haven't taken benefits yet of a number that we know is going to be larger than the one 49, we know it's going to be bigger. It's just about how much bigger absolutely. >> Could he. Worse off because of that. Because they wouldn't be able to negotiate things going forward if it negatively affects the pension burger. Correct okay that's where I struggle with this. Some of my colleagues I'd like them, I'd like the number. And and I want to support like I said I've had these conversations with multiple of them. I am I am struggling with. >> Renegotiation outside of an already done negotiation. And so I'll leave it there for for now I I but I would like to get the number. >> Thank you Chris for your answers. You councilmember handle it. Thank you Chris and like a councilmember gabbard and vice chair Curtis said we have a discussion about this at the budget Committee. Meeting this morning and I have similar concerns and part of minister start with the fact that this was bargained for and what I don't understand is what the back instead of this and what do the current members don't have so when we talk about what's equitable I guarantee you they MAY have benefits that current members MAY not have that I don't know about so is there a difference in terms of benefits right now that that group is getting. Now okay so nothing in terms of insurance. It's not where I think you are headed with that is. Say from 1970 up to 2006 when when the union did not bargain for a Cola they were trading other things at the time. Okay. So maybe higher wages MAY be reduced workweeks things of that nature took priority. But then it like it's in around 2006 the union made this a priority. And started to bargain that and at that time they MAY have sacrificed wages or something else. >> And and that's the heart that's the hard part. With this is. You have collective bargaining for a reason you had the issues that the table everyone's at the table, everyone. And they come to an agreement and we have members now that are going to be doing the same thing and now we're opening this store. We're making it permanent. It could have we know it could have negative effects on the members now where we are aware of that. I think it's important to be fair. What I can't understand is why this wasn't a priority. When they were bargaining. So I can't that Oracle for me I. I think in Chris correct me if I'm wrong but one part of the analysis during the negotiation was the concern a consideration that those one 75 resources we're going to be available to provide the 2% Cola said there had to be some type of drawing a line to ensure that the one 75 resources that we got an annual basis would be sufficient to fund right to percent permanent coliform right. The other. So that was kind of they had to make a decision somewhere and that was the offer from the the collective bargaining unit at the time. >> And we know that this is a liability on the current plan at some right so. >> You're you're once you give something you're taking from somewhere. And that's what I'm I am trying to get out what what is what is being taken from its it's our current members. >> And illegal you mention the fact that there's not a legal requirement. The actuary said this is something that could be considered by the state permanent, but we don't know the answer to that, but frankly there's nothing right now that prevents the mayor from providing a given the if the resources and our their yearly. My recollection Kris 71th to you. Was there there was interaction with the state and the actuary. >> In 2017 or 2018 hours. Actuary was was concerned had discussions with a member of the state Division of retirement. Okay and that's where they discussed this idea that it's not that we paid out. But because of Gadsby standards. Post employment benefits. We might have to recognize eclipse some point right yeah. >> Well we've done it there have been 7 on one's 19 100,006 2013 17 and then 2 years in a row, 2324. And what was the last time someone spoke to the actuary. We talk about it every year you talk about it every year. Someone mentioned there was a report done I don't think we've been provided with that report. The actual room yeah on this issue. But have they done in on this issue specifically. I received a report. Now we. We have not asked for them to do a study or to look into it because we've been conscious of trying not to established patterns. >> Those are kind of the concerns I have I mean I want to be fair to everyone and I just want make sure we do the right thing but. It is concerning that this is something that can. >> Members at some point in time. So I'm happy to hear from others councilmember Floyd thank you. >> The current collective bargaining agreements. Negotiated and the cost of living adjustments for retirees. Are those retirees post 2008. Members of the union why are they getting representation and not the ones from pre 2008. Once you retire early or leave the city you are no longer represented by the union okay, and you don't have standing. For for collective bargaining, okay, it just happened to be that we got that line drawn in 2008 and that's how we got into the situation. >> I think what I want to say is. >> We can move this forward today. Passive in a couple of Remember the day that it had on here. Ands we're going to call it permanent. But you know that the next time you go into bargaining. This is coming up. And so that's why right now. Deal I guess I mean it'll be that they get there Cola one or 2 times bargaining. But you're ready to negotiate this right like there's no way that this isn't going to be a key part of the conversation like Simon comes up I think I know where you're going out to this Cola for the non represented group is not going to be bargained we have no obligation to bargain. What is given to. Okay well forward what we can negotiate for the current group is always on the table that has to be something where obviously but you're resetting the terms of the conversation like the framework of the conversations held with them. It's going to include a world in which this exists. So. It might not be that you want to talk about it, but it's going to be underlying the whole conversation at agreed and yeah. So. You know I don't know what that looks like. But it's. It's going to be. I just don't imagine that this will be immediate end of this even. If we were all. Smiles and rainbows about of that this isn't going to be and certainly hope is is not a strategy, but if we have a couple of banner years and in the stock market then we end up. Being more than a 100% funded. >> The flip a coin Lee, I was really no need to mention But sure we can all hope. >> Other thing I is let's see if I can remember. I think we all would just feel more comfortable if this just said happened during a cba. Bargaining process. And then. >> Keep having things pop in my mind in the I would love to get like a real confirmation because the of the. What councilmember hand which was mentioning like the difference in what the agreements were for retirees for post 2008 because I've been hearing that there are differences and you're saying there's not I would love to see it written down or I don't know why I'm hearing differently than what you're saying. >> There's no 2 cba is the same especially after 20 something years. Yeah, we didn't always negotiate. Pensions so since that 2008. And prior the same years of service requirements are there. The same look back of your highest 3 years of pay are what counts is your. Pension what your monthly benefit will be what has happened since the post 8 do is I believe it was probably in 20 1516 17 somewhere around there. The current group did negotiate. Adding. Overtime hours. 2 there based pensionable him out. There are years that they were fully funded at a 100% in fact it was higher than a 100%. So they took the opportunity to negotiate that benefit for themselves, so that is different. Then what the 2000. A group is getting because they obviously are not working anymore. They can't put any overtime into their their base. Okay. Okay, well, I'm gonna leave it there right now for today. The first hearing yeah, so it's very possible more comes up between now and the next time. I'm grateful for the one on one a you have more de yes. Yes to be a year yes, but 11 this is Steve Carnegie's are. This town so to answer a COUNCILMAN Curtis question. The total population of this group is in the hole. The post 2011 2000 acres is 359. Of which a 110 are eligible right now for example just receive the cola you know with the Oct. 31th pension payments. So obviously you get this group will obviously if they get closer to 60 and hit 60. That number was the increase. Finish thank you chair. >> That hesitation that I have. More from. >> This state statute. And what. Run up against more than anything else. I can see where an argument can be made to. Permit if we're going to the required to fund it anyway. And I need to learn more about that and what this what the implications could be. >> Another hesitation is. I don't think this would be the end. If we do this part then. i can imagine it's only a matter of time. Before some additional. Benefit or compensation is requested because of changes that have happened so. So those not currently covered. Contribution that's available. We'll say we never got that so now we need to have something else added. And when and where does it stop. There's a reason why collective bargaining happens. And I think it's a good and healthy thing that there is the option for a discretionary call it to be given. Even if we do it often enough for eventually we're required to fund it. It's a tough thing because. I want I want people to have to have. I want people to have what they deserve and I want people who have served our city and served as first responders to be able to have healthy pension. And one that is fair. It's really unfortunate. What happened. In the past. I'm not sure that we can fix everything. And we do have to be careful about. The PRESIDENT That this one set and. I'm not even worried so much about finding the money because this is the type of thing that's worth it. That's why I'm okay with the discretionary. >> I'm I'm not I think they. They the risks outweigh the rewards if we go down this path. Of making this permanent. >> I do want to spend some time learning a little bit more about this so I would be okay with. Voting to. So today so when is the second reading 21th in the 21th so between now and then I can learn a little bit more to have a more informed decision. But so therefore I'd like to move it forward today and we'll talk soon. >> We will be glad again to to meet with anyone to answer any questions can provide as much data as we can. Jane can can help out with the legal side of things. >> Thank you and posed by by saying that if it was if it was my dad who is asking for this I would want him to have it because I knew he would deserved it. But we there are other considerations that has City Council members we have to take into account as we make these kinds of decisions so it's not an easy one. Thank you, MADAM Chair. Vice chair girders thank you MADAM Chair. I just have one last question are there our in inside. Holy moly. We committee meetings this morning. Other pension program and our other pension programs are they also split into groups why has this happened in our other Pineau. No both both of the other plant have poll as that word implemented long ago and applied everyone. Okay, but there's no other. Split like pre post 2008 like there is whether it's for a coal or anything else. So for example for for police, you know there are literally 3 plans there 1784 plan, Milan and then there's a police prior plan. And then you have the fire fire plan and then you have a fire supplant that's where you have this group this make group there is another group out there. Another pension plan that has. You know a subset you know that it's actually impacted in this way. Okay, it's they're she did one way. This is the only group that really so if we went and changed the ers tomorrow. It would change for everybody winds. If the that makes a difference. Well we should let that That would be up if the union that the fbs you can they could have negotiated negotiated chairs they all have rest of representation. Yes, every single member. This I think this conversation. >> Could have got a little is here for 3 about a little bit aback that background because for one subset of 158, not to have representation while every other participating member of pension programs in the city of St. Petersburg does makes this a little different. And they did I still don't like how it's going down. But it makes it a little different. And what they but they work as we had discussed they were fully represented yeah right now I know that's part of them point I'm it. Ok I'm ok with moving this forward I think like everybody i'm not about to not support former or court current fire fires. I think that's I won't speak for everybody, but I my guess is that's probably ringing true across this dice. I still think I want like other members I want to been a couple of things up so I note some council members have other comments but I move approval. A second. Now some are bandits. I just have one simple question why now. We'll start right now. And we have this conversation every year with the actuary all right. I mean and this 20 it seems like it's been every year 2324. So we've known this I just want to know why are we doing it right now why is it. Because it happens in JANUARY of 25 so kind of just breaking into this would be the normal timing that we would write you know why why didn't we. Have this discussion about making it permanent and you bring it to City Council in 2024, or in 20, you know, I mean we're 24 but you know 20 23 in point, you know 2022 want why. Why now Mike why the urgency now on. Both the last to 2 fiscal years. Mayor Welch made the decision to go forward with the the had hawk cool this year we decided we wanted to have it. He considered permanently in this is the process through which. We bring that to an ordinance change no not not to Anders not just. >> Of all the times with hurricanes with everything else where all the things are happening we're worried about the budget. And. This is a complicated issue, maybe I can shed a ever since 2010. When this was went into effect that group of one 55 has lobbied hard love council members administration and the union for this and every year we've gone through this discretionary discussion and. To answer your question. We started this process for the permanent one. Want to say last spring early FEBRUARY MARCH. So there are there wasn't. And all These other considerations on the horizon. I'll defer to administration, but I believe it felt the time was right. Budget airily 2 do something permanent. Ok I look. We all have had about the storm East and all the issues that are facing our city and and how much it's going to cost the us and we're waiting for all these reports and this is. You know. Something that could be this question lead and at least for now until we get more numbers and while I agree with everyone in terms of. Obviously being there for those who have served us. But I mean that and the timing couldn't. And and it just it really is. Makes it even more difficult along with everything else that we're dealing with some happy to move it forward but. I will tell you. It is concerning and the doors that were opening and what can happen in the future I am concerned about that and I am concerned about what can happen with collective bargaining and how this this is not gonna going this is not going to solve it. I leave it there, thank you. Thank you councilmember gather. >> Thank you MADAM Chair. Is it possible if we do move this forward today to get a narrative around the cause. And that took place that we have obviously questions about like what was the given take what did they get what did they not get in 2008 to yes, yeah, you to prepare that for us. I didn't actually I did an analysis several years ago about the given take what was negotiated. What what the high points were that the priorities were so I can easily get that we have all the records back time now been here long enough I was actually at the table okay, but it has a personal chef or yeah, okay. Yeah, I think that that would be helpful because I mean to all of my colleagues point I mean nobody wants to sit up here and vote against giving. Firefighters that dedicated their lives to public safety in our city. Not give them what their what they deserve right. But at the same time my concerns are and I heard it kind of echo drift over over what this does to future collective bargaining knowing that that is coming up in the spring again and then the door and the precedent that is opened by us doing this and what those ramifications could be for all of our other collective bargaining units and everything else right. So those are my 2 biggest concerns and if I'm just you know voting based on heartstrings on voting. Yes, but if I'm voting from a very practical standpoint as a council member responsible for the budget and responsible for decisions that are made that set precedent with unintended consequence. That unfortunately I end up in a place where I have too much doubt and my answer has to be no. And so I'm I'm really struggling with us. All vote to move it forward today but I've got a lot. Of infill I need between now and the 21th so thank you MADAM Chair. Thank you. So Chris basically what I'm hearing is we all want to for vi the equity that this is intended for what it sounds like to me is we're trying to fix an issue that's not ours. So when you say that we have firefighters that are not being represented. If we give them this annual kolr they still won't be represented. Correct but it will impact other. I guess I'm just trying to we will never be able to fix us because they would never be representative how can you bring something back to us that would be more reputable we're not setting a precedent in regards to something like this because their collective bargaining with the active. Firefighters that you have an issue with as all my colleagues if it is gonna come up. And we will have to come with the money and when I heard about the actuary saying there were going to be responsible for this as councilmember gaffer's it was with 94% and then is that a 112% and then we can only see it going up that we're going to be responsible for we family for everything else. I've said that before and so willing to make sure that we take care of our firefighters we need to do that. But again I've always be huge on setting precedence and how we do how we're doing news. So it seems like we're trying to fix a problem that we will never be able to fix because they would never be represented by the union. >> Sounds like negotiations where nobody gets everything that they want it but your point is well taken and it, but that's not a good thing because if there's it. Because only talk about the negotiation and we're talking about city dollars. You know we want to take care of our own. But I was so on point with councilmember Gavroche when you look at the heartstrings absolutely when you look at the bridge Terry responsibility that we have you know you have to kind of pull it together so I think what I've heard is that council members will move this forward, but there is quite a bit of information that is needed to move across the finish line. So with that our coast the comments and I think we've already had a motion that have been seconded so since we have emotions they're properly second it for you too can you please open the machine for voting. Council members can you please tell you vote asked your votes seeing none of present council members there voted can you please tell me and that's a vote. MADAM Chair, the motion to approve agenda item e 2 passes unanimously with council member Mohamed bin absence. Thank you so much, thank you You know you don't have a lot of one on ones at least contact me if you have individual questions, I'll see in a couple of weeks. It was good. Thank you so much. >> Now we're going to move in take up our report items beginning with f one and joining us is our chief of police, Anthony how the Lehigh chief. Good afternoon, MADAM Chair House members are you will offer to folks. Who's going to be with the report for JULY AUGUST and SEPTEMBER the report you for this quarter crime is down by 4.8% and the 5 year trend is down by 7.1%. I'm sorry to see for this quarter there too. That's up by 30% compared to last year this time last year we had 10 this time this quarter we have 13 the 2 homicides for this quarter, they were both done by knives. One was an argument one was a domestic. I can tell you right now our detective division is doing an outstanding job. They still have close out every homicide case as of this quarter with an arrest. Our group team again we've had others he's asked about this team of Council before this is where we have detected go out to scenes where we can recover any type of evidence that we can use so we can stop any further gang violence and it has reduced some of our fallen kron. Our gun report is keep getting better so I'm hoping everybody continues to follow what we talk about on a positive note for this quarter we at 47 guns turned in to us. We followed 22 because I'm sorry to 22 or fall so this total of 68 guns of that we took off the street. For kron reports here I want to make sure I still City Council is going to be seeing 2 numbers and that's because the federal reporting system has changed. So giving you you see our uniform crime reporting. And what that is is based upon hierarchy. So we used to work in his someone broke into someone's House. Why one wonders how they robbed a person as several other thing it went to the highest charge. Now under the new report writing system fiber 5, 5, or is that every category so if you break into someone's House will be counted as a burglary. We do a robbery be counted as that. So 40 song, so every incident that happens now will be counted as one. So we're going to give you 2 numbers now I'm gonna give you the uniform report and also to give you 5 been reporting. This is fiving reporting. Because I don't want you to see people start seeing crime isn't going up it is not going up we just want to compare oranges to oranges know another good example, it if you get 6 car burglaries on a street. Reporting way would be one car burglary. Now under this new system will be 6. Burglaries esta new federal way they're going to start reporting these crimes. Rs are still going down so they're starting to go back so under the ucr robberies are up 2% but a 5 year trend. They're down by 10%. Auto thefts are down by 41% 5 year trend, 26%. Burgers are down 32% 5 year trend are down by 40%. As you can see the rest match crime going down in our city. Traffic stop the officer still initiating traffic stopped. Our second chance program we're going to modify this a little bit because of the weather hurricane. What we're seeing is our kids are starting to fall behind meaning that it used to be the child commit a crime this week by Sat.. It would be at parks and recs Mike Jeff and his team have done a great job, but just with everything going on. You see we're 9 kids have not been able to go to this program waiting in a queue. So we've got to work around know that we're going to actually start working with these kids so they're not having to wait that period of time to go back to you of course is me I did it is then 3 months later Hernandez. So of chief of Austin's team of what would have a better plan under our call program that we're going to be working with these kids that we can get them into a system right away because we want to continue to address the problem before becomes a major problem. On home monitoring program was still doing exit with that again that's with all the agencies in Pinellas County working together. Pat unit with our unhoused individuals you see all the contact that are being made the services that are being referred to to the clients. Park welcomed talk Council one of that up as you can see the numbers are still up to SEPTEMBER were down a little bit will get those back up and you see all the areas where the officers getting other vehicles and a walk around and talking to the people in the community. Eli program. We had 6 more people do is quarter really up to a 100 I'm sorry 813 we're going to try to get out there. We know people have these camera just trying to make sure we get them to go online in to some confusion today we keep reminding people we just want to know you have the cameras we don't have access to your cameras that when a crime happened in an effective can knock on your door you also get a knock on your door to see hey did you videotape something that happened on your Street. Our use of force as you see them up to SEPTEMBER went up. Again we're totally different only could speak for Saint Pete St. Petersburg Police Department our policy is is when an officer points his Taser use her Taser someone that is considered a use of force. So that has kept that is that is captured 2 officers on the scene and they both point their tasers at someone that's 2 incidents. So anytime the officers. Even though they don't fire the Taser a point someone. That is the use of force in that is reviewed by the chain of command. As you see our complaints. Our call program is still a very successful is that people call was asked about it all the time as you can see last reported 95% but the 96% of these navigators are going to these call that are not police related what a police officers and working with people that the crisis that are going through and then they want to highlight the most people talk about it there 0 injuries and again we're having professionals help people out with their problem and not having a badge and gun at the scene. With that open up for any questions. >> Council member Jessica. Thank you and thank you chief are they for the report. >> a lot of these numbers are looking good. One in 2. Make it and general. The suggestion. A food. Park walking tacos that years. Backup when you get back up to the previous numbers that just want to make sure that all neighborhoods are are being covered so that every neighborhood feels like the year. And recognizing included. I think just just from that's just from looking at the map. >> And so we're trying to I said earlier we try to make the map as. It's best as possible because an officer he or she could get out at 1516 and they can walk that whole block and walk another block was going to show it initially called out with a field wall. Quite a long ways. But again it's only going to show initially stopped so we're trying to figure out how we can capture that officer maybe here she walked 3 streets during that period of time. Yes. Yes, no. Yeah I I and I understand that and it seemed that it. And so the map that you have here is for that 3 month. All 3 months, yes, ma'am. So if I look at this map it tells me that their way there are 0 pw tease that were conducted in cocaine a key. I have a hard time believing that someone parked their vehicle at Grandview Park and walked over the bridge and then too and around the neighborhood because it's a pretty big place. So I I wonder and and thing it's got to be a mistake. But that's just one example and I want to point out. I don't. I think it's. >> And we're taking a look and you're probably right dose or he or she could apply just got to call it out and they were then asked would you like to make sure that are documented that yeah. We want to be able to see and recognize the good work that they're doing. They called team. I see the most frequent zip codes. The most frequent cars that I get that could be called him related if the resident would call. The Police Department it is when we have. Folks who are unhoused. You know sleeping in parks, the being you know on the waterfront large we're seeing large amounts of personal items. It seems like it gets better and then it gets and then it gets worse again. I went to tight sergeant. Hancock has been fantastic and his team with addressing things when I bring it up. But I do wonder as often as I and in some areas. Why it's so prevalent and high how how could it not be seeing what I'm seeing out there. Having the the path you or the call team of both available in the evening hours. Is really early. That's when you're that's when you see a lot of this needs are these are folks who need to be helped or issues and that need to be addressed. We'll follow up on that man. Be happy to talk with you offline about that. Some more detail. Whatever you need to help your team do better. That's all I have right now, thank you MADAM Chair. Thank you councilmember Floyd thank you thank you for the or. >> For the update. I just wondered if you could talk about guns in cars. Briefly, I mean it seems like it comes up every time I'm assuming we're still having those issues but it seemed like based off of your map like maybe things were going down a little bit. They are continue to trend down. But again if you look at that number that still too many me make sure I have yeah exacta so there were 25 guns taking of cars this past quarter I mean remembers being in the 50's yeah, this was gonna say it feels like it's going down. Yeah, it just we just have to keep to that message please remember to take your guns out of your car, you know you have a right to carry going to be responsible gun owner, take it out and we just keep putting the message out there over and over again. Hopefully people are paying attention. It seems like they are yeah I like to see that number get 0 but Alex to get under 10 a new movie perfect but 10 will be fine. Yeah obviously we're not going to live in like a perfect We'll strive to buy it. I am glad to see it going down and that was the impression I was getting so just wanted to make that explicit. So thanks for the info that was all Ed, thank you chair. Thank you chief Ed do have one question in regards to the live program. I know the officers they going to ask neighbors if they have the ring footage. Do we actually provide information to resident that has the footage that MAY not be a part of the eagle eye program do we provide them with a flyer card to say you know would you consider registering Ur Ur camera with the Eli program just in case because if you go in there once it MAY be a possibility it you're going to go and request. Information twice what they haven't been registered. Yes, ma'am we have it on our facebook page we have all banned foods that we pass on and also anytime we have an event we also try to remind people to sign up for his program. Megan thank you for highlighting that it's really just to let us know was something happen that we can go to this home this home that home and maybe they capture something that can help us close out these cases but did the officers give something to the homeowner. When yes, ma'am okay. Okay, that's all ahead that's that was my question saying no further. Inquest us Pete, thank you t thank you, So now we're going to move on to f 2 and I'm going to let the introduction to be done by our own councilmember here once thank you chair, and I am so excited. For this presentation I have to say this was supposed to happen back on Oct. 10th and because that the meeting was canceled and it seems like all of OCTOBER is a blur here we are Nov. 7th. And it turns out that this presentation is happening at the same time as a resolution afterwards and before I introduce bridge now I want to let everyone know I will be. Yeah we have lost a quorum was lost for that we have to stop the second >> We know he then will be a long 2 months. That's all right and it's and I'm gonna make it even more complicated because at some point I want everyone to know I'm not gonna I would want to be participating more in this but at some point I'm going to have to recuse myself once we vote because in an abundance of caution and to avoid the appearance of a conflict of a volunteer board member with the Shirley Park to pull a foundation. I'll say it again at the next item. I can stay here I've checked with legal, I can state through the presentation. So once I leave y'all can't leave because then you can of course. >> But any out I'm so happy to have. Bridget H