Pasadena City Council 720: May 7, 2020

Step into this stage two of low risk activities he would be authorizing through to california department of public health to allow specified retailers namely bookstores, clothing stores, florists, music stores, sporting goods stores and toy stores. He would allow those specific types of retailers to operate for curbside pickup. So no customers in the store but customers could transact online or over the phone and pick up their goods at the curb. He also indicated that various recreational area as such as golf courses could open and throughout the state that created a tremendous amount of interest. It's been widely reported in local media as of this moment or at least before the ed tech meeting when we were checking the governor had an actually had the order issued. But we do anticipate it coming sometime today. The related to policy issues that staff is looking for guidance from the council and we did receive some from ed tech committee and Mr. Gordon will chair that share that with the full council is to what extent does the city council want to see us take advantage of these loosening restrictions on specific retailers? It's my understanding that the region in a lot in the los angeles area meaning the city of los angeles that's the county of los angeles is the city of long beach. Burbank. Glendale. All plan to avail themselves to these lessening of restrictions to allow this limited retail. And then the other policy question is to the extent that we May reopen recreational areas including the golf course trails and the rose bowl lou. To what extent would the council like to see us open those as early as tomorrow or should we wait until some additional information or more staff work can be done? Those two key issues that we thought it was important to meet with the council today. I appreciate you making yourselves available. It's very rushed thing. We talked about that during the ed tech meeting information and things are happening rapidly. And so we do appreciate your indulgence. But staff plan was to go forward and avail through a revised health order to take advantage of the governor's loosening of restrictions. But we would benefit from from direction from the full council if the council was apprehensive. I think it's appropriate for the council to direct us and we wouldn't issue a revised health order and perhaps be a good time either through questions or or if Mr. Gordo wanted to to share any questions for steve. >> before you remind us on edtech tech let the chair introduce the members. >> oh, all right. Neither me, Mr. Madison is the senior member a Mr. Hampton and Mr. Wilson in order seniority and me and we're together we make a mistake. Are there any other questions for steve or mal before victor reports from ed tech not get asked me to just gotta. So all all members committee who were present during the meeting so we we discussed the governor's comments and they're awaiting eagerly is official action. The governor seems to have released some guidelines and hinted at or stated that there will be a phase to reopening but what official action apparently he just this looking for and we're all dearly awaiting the committee is recommending that we go forward with the crafting the directive itself. >> the staff already have the draft direct health directive that would give effect that would take effect I should say when the governors action becomes official and thereby makes our action legal and legitimate. The committee also recommended that we begin thinking through now the how pasadena May move deeper into a phase two or even a phase 3. We talked about the development of a dashboard, the construct of which would be presented to the council this coming monday. So that the whole council could weigh in on the construct and the criteria for the dashboard that might be used to move pasadena further into a phase two or a phase 3 with regard to the golf course the that's included in the governor's action and the draft health erected and the committee concurs that it should in that healthy included in that health directive. The committee also talked about other recreational activities including trails and the loop the direction and the recommendation that the committee is making is that we direct staff to provide a plan with more information. Mr. Madison described it as the scaffolding for reopening the loop trails and other recreational activity and so we would like to see or recommended that the council be presented with the more detailed plan that includes staff that includes analysis from our hope health director. So a full report that the council could then react to and when we talk about staffing or talking about existing city staffing, whether they're on the job now or whether they're they can be repurposed because they're part of the 10 percent of our workforce to let her so employees that are on the payroll but are currently at home because they don't have packed work activities to undertake and so that muslim member of the committee wants to weigh in is the recommendation the committee go over the phase 2 directive, start thinking through as early as monday including dashboard how pasadena might move deeper into phase 2. And even at phase 3 build the scaffolding for real in lieu a full report including using some of our staff and proceed with the reopening golf course. Hobson thank you, Mr. Gardner, Mr. Madison. So mayor, I think the chair summarized it well. I think we had a good conversation with staff. I do. I'd be derelict. I didn't mention that. You know, I've been talking for some time about having a plan. And I've been talking about having task forces established within our staff. We have very capable city staff who can do research and come up with creative options and contingency and that's what we really need right now is optionality. We need the staff to be telling us well we can do this in the restaurants. We can do that in the sporting goods. We can do this with recreational areas. And I want be again fair to staff whom my support. You know, they've been drinking out of a fire hose since this thing get so. But I am disappointed that we don't have those kinds of plans and you know, the question was put to us, well, do you want us to be aggressive and reopen everything the governor is authorizing or not? And we can't really make those decisions unless we have comprehensive advice from the staff and with our health department we should have really fulsome advice on each of those and creative proposals and ideas about, you know, right down to the details of the protocols for these businesses and perhaps enhanced inspection from the city to reassure our residents that they will be safe and all. So I think going forward we need to start seeing that and the second phase of the second phase, you know that the governor is talking about apparently because we have our own health officer we qualify to move more quickly into that next tranche or that next section of phase two provided that we meet certain benchmarks in terms of statistics related to coburn. We didn't have time for a detailed discussion but the health director indicated that we don't meet those the county doesn't meet those. And you know, my view on that is I think we should continue to collaborate with county. It's important to realize that we're part of a region. But I want pasadena to be a leader here and we certainly shouldn't hold back waiting for the county to take the first step. This is a thing of our own health department really gives us some opportunity here and I think we should be exercising it. >> and mayor and council members for your benefit. The conversation we had earlier at the governor did issue an executive order earlier today which Mr. Madison is referencing that provides a path for certain health jurisdictions generally counties but not exclusively to allow health jurisdictions to move more quickly through stage to phase two if certain criteria are met. So what we discussed is that come monday we would outline for the council what those criteria are and then the expectations by the following council meeting will have a good handle on our data points. So we can at least share with the council where we fit relative to those benchmarks. It's my understanding that the governor did this to address the issue of some of our more rural counties that have a much lower incidence of coded infection. And so that's that's the thought behind that. But Mr. Madison's point is certainly valid if we met the criteria presumably we can avail ourselves to what the governor has laid out as a path. >> if the state estimate was about 20 counties both fit the criteria and those are as you know, the most rural the small ones victor. >> thank you. Not to Mr. Madison's point and not to take full advantage of our health department. I don't think it's just limited to waiting for the governor or I think, you know, putting together staff task forces, repurposing staff to think who with our business community how we can give a fact or even drive some of this policy is important. When the governor moves to phase two, I don't want pasadena to be scrambling to I'm sorry further in phase two or three to scrambling to educate ourselves how we're going to assist the business community give effect to people who've in the phase 2 of these three we ought to start that work now and be prepared to do and when we have what we have and we touched on some during the ed tech meeting and some of that was in the staff report presented to council monday night we May we May also be prepared. >> I'm I'm sorry. We May also be able to model how the state and our neighbors and the county May be able to move into deeper phase 2 or even phase 3 quicker. Los angeles county health department covers all of los angeles county and pasadena where our own health department that covers only pasadena. And that's a tremendous benefit and I think that's the point is we were manageable. We know our business community. We know the various sectors of our business community. We are in a very strong position to model how others could and should be moving forward. And we have the talent on staff and if we don't have either the talent or the capacity then we should bring on other people to assist in the health gardening or Dr. Go is very, very busy. Why not tap our previous health administrator whom we have been bringing on additional staff to support our efforts as we discussed monday evening? >> right. But I'm talking specifically about the administration asked of doctor. We all remind us that Dr. Goh is serving as both health officer and health director. She's fulfilling two duties in los angeles county. Correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. City manager, but los angeles county has health director and chief health officer, correct. That's correct. And we're working in in team fashion across numerous departments for the discussion at edtech obviously was meant to be more broad about support for the business community. The discussion tonight here with the council is a little more limited to this pending health order which incidentally we have staff on a state call and we're hearing that it actually won't be promulgated this evening. It'll be issued in the morning. So we are on top of it and we're engaged with the governor but we have we have assembled the staff teams. We are as we outlined monday to the council developing our interest industry sector groups and we do proceed plan to proceed and we are proceeding along the lines as council member gordo and Mr. Madison have outlined. But getting back to the point so that used to be the model in pasadena where we had a health director, a health officer and continues to be the model in most health departments and maybe we're overburdening our health department and our health officer slash director. Well, we created a deputy director to handle much of the administrative functions so we restructured the management because we're cognizant of that. >> it seems that perhaps every 10 years we we have a debt we have the director is not a doctor and then we have the doctor is the director we're fortunate to have very capable Dr. And director now and very capable deputy director and handles the administrator of the department well. >> so again, that May be one of the issues that the council May want to discuss additional resource is not just within the health department but elsewhere or repurposing our resources. And so that I understand the that staff is having discussions. But you know, this brings us full circle to the council needs to also understand the nature of the discussions and way in particular where we're it involves policy. So so I for one would like to know what the staff is going to do to implement these actions and then we can have the conversation about what council's agenda looks like for for monday. All right. We have a couple of council members in the q we have Mr. Kennedy, Ms. Magoffin and then council. Okay. For steve, you and I had had a conversation about just really project planning this reopening and making sure that the factual predicate existed upon which we could move forward and listening to council member gordo and council member madison. I'd like to understand if in fact some of that ground work has been done. Internally, irrespective of what the county is saying and irrespective of what the governor is saying. Well, are you asking do we think that we can facilitate the soft reopening of these certain wellington? >> well, what I'm asking specifically is have we developed independently criteria that would be the factual predicate for doing what has happened or what has been discussed by the other two council members who spoken because my view was that it still is that if you have the factual predicate meaning that the the the platform by which you can open in it's understood by everyone meaning by all policy makers because you've shared that then week and say we've checked that box. So we can move forward here. We've checked the other box so we can move forward there. I'd just like to know in the same vein as the other council members who've spoken. Has that work been done? Sure. Let me let me respond this way and then I would invite Dr. Go if she had comments. I think the bottom line here is the governor has indicated he has laid down criteria and he's indicated that at least to his satisfaction and the state department of public health that we've met that criteria satisfactorily to allow limited reopening of retail. I think that the health officials will tell us that anything that we do that increase is contact between people is liable to result in more transmission. And as we discussed monday night, what we're dealing with across this country is what's the right balance between how much economic activity we're willing to have or what's desired balanced against what's the optimal from a health public health prospect. And it appears as if the state has decided that they can rebalance a little but at this juncture and allow some level of retail to operate and some recreational activities and they'll continue to monitor to see what the impacts are from the health perspective if transmission goes way up, if infections go the way up, then probably they don't do any of the other stage two activities and perhaps they cancel these limited stage two activities and I would turn to Dr. Go to see if she could put up a finer point or more articulate. Well, I think you captured it exactly. >> maybe I've been saying it over and over again enough times but I want to give you maybe some of the metrics that we're following. I'm really disappointed because we aren't seeing a decrease in the number of cases in the county to the degree that we would like. For example, I would like to see 14 days of no increases in cases. So the rate of new cases either decreasing or at least flat. And that's not what we're seeing in pasadena. We are seeing a an increase in cases every day but it is more flat. So it's been pretty steady for about a week at least maybe a little bit more than that. So what we the criteria that the governor has said that the criteria of increase in cases is not really being met to my satisfaction. However, what we do have and what the governor has used as the criteria that indicates we can move into the very limited phase two is that the health care system does have the capacity so that if and when we do see some increased cases because we're opening a little bit that the health care system can handle. And if it can't, then we'll close up again. And so I think that with the recognition that the social and economic consequences of the novel virus are also devastating, that the goal is to try and allow some minimal economic activity that is of the least risk the lowest risk that we can identify at this time because of all those pressures. And so I think. Well well just looking at the activities that have been identified as far as curbside retail with the protocols that we're going to require and like the open spaces or golf with the protocols that we require that that's probably the lowest level of risk of activity that we could identify. So if we have staff reopening or or limited reopening, are there going to be professionals throughout the city about, you know, assessing how we are doing in our you empowered to shut off rarick very quickly of the reopening if you see sufficient spikes that would warrant us to clamp down again? >> council member we've developed protocols for all the affected retailers to follow recognizing that businesses wouldn't be allowed to allow people into their stores. We are making plans to allow people to be in the public right away. One of the things we discussed with edtech the governor said curbside pickup with I'm sorry but time is limited. We only have an hour. I just want to know what answer yes. Okay. All right. Great at and of since public safety is going to meet on wednesday. And the mayor the vise mayor and the most senior council member are members of that committee. Will you be. Will you be presenting to that committee just the public safety aspect and what we've learned from the time period from friday to wednesday? Just so we can weigh in from the committee level on public safety issues specifically. Well, my plan was to report back to the council on monday how things go this weekend. I want to be cognizant of not overlapping council subcommittees that ed tech committee is a primary on the economic recovery plan. I'll stay out of it and I'll leave it to the council decide to decide which committee has jurisdiction over what we certainly plan to present to public safety general issues. Sorry. We don't need the camp of the jurisdiction issue because that's already been decided. I'm asking specifically very narrowly about quote unquote public safety, not economic benefit. We'll report that on wednesday, sir. Ok. Great. Thank you very much. Your next computer? Yeah. I think you call on me. Yeah. Ok. Thank you. So just. Just I want to just clarify a few things. First of all, that the guidance that we're talking about from the state so that the governor had six indicators for modifying the stay home order and then he had for action that to be achieved before moving on. Are we talking about complying with the for actions which are insured solely to care for the sick within our hospitals prevent infection of people who were at high risk, build capacity and reduce disruptions already talking about the next six? I'm I'm a little unclear about what the criteria is. Well, I've been talking focusing on these four stages of recovery. >> and those were the focused on the economic side. I would defer to Dr. Go about the governor six indicators and whether they're being met again presumably he feels are being adequately met to allow a move into the initial stages of stage two on the economic recovery side I wouldn't say that all those indicators are met to at this time and that's why the right to go wouldn't you say when you say all the indicators you mean the six indicators are definitely we have not met all the six count indicators because one of them is therapeutics and we don't have therapeutics or vaccines. So under the small shorter list and I can't I haven't been clear myself on why they have list of six and the list of four except the list of four is a little more practical has ppe in it. So I think that this soft but this very this move and what I've seen in our discussions is that there's such a range of difference of experience with kobe 19 between the rural counties and hard restrictions the urban jurisdictions that the gut the state is in a difficult place to try and accommodate all this wide range of needs. So the very small step of opening curbside retail is one way to get us started without introducing too much risk. We think even though we haven't met all of those indicators to be able to open more into a much greater extent right now. So but the other criteria and criteria criteria that that's been talked about at the national level and and below is to have 14 days of declining maybe declining cases and declining deaths and boy in pasadena. We're still on the upswing. You're exactly right. Yeah. So council member gaston and I think it's this situation where from a public health perspective certain guidelines or goals have been set out that are clear. >> we're not really meeting those but there is intense pressure to allow greater economic activity. And the governor is trying to balance that as our the governors and elected officials throughout the nation. And that's that's the push and pull on us right. But how how many? I mean I guess I'd I'd be interested to see the specific data from pasadena. I think it's on the dashboard. I don't have that in front of me. You know, are we are we climbing up or are we at least flat? I mean it seems that the data in terms of our number of cases doesn't align with the actions of opening things up with maybe with all of the actions of opening things up some things May be easier than others but it just seems that there's a conflict there between the direction are the cases are going in and then the actions that we're talking taking. I think it's because our dashboard represents health and mortality outcomes morbidity mortality outcomes. It does not reflect economic and social consequences of carbon 19 so it's interesting the governor has said that throughout the state everyone can avail themselves to this limited retail and then through that other order. He said those jurist actions meaning other criteria. This dashboard we were talking about a few minutes ago. If you're doing even better then you could move quicker through the economic recovery phases that's already laid out and that makes says different you know different counties, different needs. >> so so then what with that background let me let me make sure I understand what what you're talking about in terms of I would say falling under the first order which we're expecting you want to open only the golf course until further detailed information about how we would open anything else. Is that what I heard? It's not a question to me or to the chair of the victor was that did I understand you correctly? I can't hear you, victor. Go ahead. No, I just want to clarify that with that background are did you say that falling under the guidance and the actions that the governor is expected to take tomorrow that you want to open and open the golf course that you feel there's sufficient rules that can be met and anything else would not be opened until we have more specific criteria developed about how we're going to do that? Is that what you said? No question. The question to the to the staff is including our health referees. Given the governor's actions, what is your medical and practical assessment? How does that how does the governor's proposed action or action fit in with cassidy? The answer that we received from Dr. Go and the city manager is that they have a draft health directive that includes giving effect that would take effect when the governor makes his action official included in that and the doctor go and and or Mr. Romantic and correct me included in the draft health directive prepared by Dr. Go would be opening up the soft opening up of retail some retail and the golf course. And so the kind of thing that's hosting a daytime curfew that she said she that she developed. >> right. So council member mick austin with the staff at the hospital for having finished. Sure. So the question then became well what about luke and other recreational activity? The committee had a discussion. Members of the committee did not feel that there is enough analysis to move forward with the opening of balloon and gave direction to staff to prepare a report that would provide some guidance. If the council were to agree to reopen lou, what does that look look like? Ok. And that was putting safety first. I understand that. So now I want to go back to Dr. Go and understand you know, what the draft directive would cover. Golf trail. And I want to separate what are the things here? You want more more specifics about how to do it safely. Is that you know, was that the frisbee golf? Is that tennis is that people ball you know, I want to kind of understand which things fall in the category that we that Dr. Goh thinks she the draft directive she's designed will will attend to those and which still need more work. So maybe Dr. Gold could tell me . Sure. All of the restrictions from the safer at home order, the governor's order currently that we reference will remain in place except for florists toy stores, bookstores, clothing stores, music stores and sporting goods stores for curbside pickup only. So no shopping in stores yet? We're not ready for that. And then golf courses and some open spaces like trails and parks are a lot will be allowed to open under the governor's order tomorrow. >> and our plan was to include that in our order. >> but the policy question to the council is if the council is not comfortable moving forward with any or all of those, we would refrain well whether you talked about, you know, in connection with opening any or all of. There has to be additional additional rules or regulations. You know, you can do this. You have to wear a. You have to. I don't know. >> yes. And Councilman Remastered. >> yes. We. We have promo gated for instance with the golf course. We have provided the golf course a long list of steps and things that need to be implemented in order for them to operate for the retailers. We would also promulgate guidance and direct directives around appropriate spacing cleanliness for employees. So with each of these approved categories comes a set of rules that they will have to adhere to and if they're not adhered to then they would not be able to operate as it relates to recreational areas. If we were to open trails but all of a sudden we felt that we could not maintain adequate social distancing then we would have to reconsider whether to close that. And again we recognize it's it's problematic when you allow something to occur and then say sorry, we're shutting this down and that would be the same for the loop. And what we heard from ed tech is that some members of the council would like to see some options around how to open that perhaps restrict vehicles or keep it the way it is or some thought potentially before just saying okay, let's do it and see how it works out. We plan of course throughout the weekend to monitor both all the commercial activity that's permitted and all the recreational areas assuming we were to proceed. I'm really confused now because you're talking about opening that time, right. We're going to open that but we can't open them until we put the rules in place for the operators and then you said you've got to monitor them that we can have them. And we haven't even. How can we authorize opening anything if we don't understand that the guidelines around opening those things we know for example, we would tell the retailers we would provide them the same sort of direction similar to what we the essential businesses under the existing order. And they have an obligation to follow those and we would monitor them over the course of the weekend and into the future. And if people are not adhering to that, then they would not be able to operate because they're operating outside of the health directive we have. >> we've just brought M.R. I think the issue the confusion relates not so much the retail that those protocols are pretty well established and they've been operating and we understand what that means. And the good the directive from the governor is pretty specific as well. The confusion here is about the trails and the loops specifically and the golf course has very specific protocols and that that those have the state. And that's pretty straightforward. The trails and the loop seem to be the issue at tec seems to feel that whatever guidance you had in your mind with regard to reopening of the loop is not adequately defined to open safely. Does that does that is the essence of it. I mean is that edtech wound? I think it would be good to see if I can get into the discussion of the loop and frankly trails because there's there's an argument that that's the that we should move in concert with the L.A. County in long beach. I'm not sure how long each plays into it but because they have a band their own health department. No, I understand that. But del. So anyhow, I guess the L.A. County argument but but L.A. County is my understand. It's my understanding L.A. County has announced the opening of trails has announced that they're going staff trails as an example. And as we started to talk about the loop and trails, members of the committee I think had the same questions that this hospital is asking. What does that look like? We don't have anything in front us that provides guidelines for the opening a balloon or even trails. So that's what that's what you said is going to come back on monday. That's about that. So the committee gave direction to the staff if the council were to as a policy move forward in open trails and blue ,what are the what safety precautions recommended by our health department? How can we bring to bear as some of asper previously existing resources that we're paying for but aren't using staff the two hundred staff that aren't assigned to a job task right now? Ok. And and you know is the pa is there a possibility that when you risk repurpose those staff will be coming again that we can really talk about that before? Well, I'm just. Are you recommending you? Are you saying that because the governor sacked the golf that these things can be open, that they can automatically be open as soon as his order is issued? For example, the golf course that way. Is that it's true that true? That is true. But L.A. County staff told us, margaret, that L.A. County already has reservations for tee times tomorrow? Well, I've been saying for weeks whereas our plan and if the golf. If the golf course is going to the I mean I I know we talked about a lot of different recreational things right now. Let's stay on golf. Ok, so if the golf course opens ,what are what are the rules and regs around behavior on that golf course? Have they been published on the golf course? >> what would have them prominently displayed and they've been working on it for weeks and it's been reviewed by Dr. Go. It's very thorough and detailed and someone comes to the golf course and I believe it's probably up on their web site as well telling the golfers what the do's and don'ts are. But we haven't seen them. We don't we don't know what the rules are. No, I didn't think that that was something that the council wanted to see that level of operational detail. >> generally speaking it's a things such as there's no rakes in the sand traps. They've taken steps to make sure there's no removable pins that people are going to going to grab. These are all operational details. No two people and in a cart spacing as you're waiting to pay the starter. I mean these are you know, if I'm going to say to to my constituents, you know, we've we've put some rules and regulations in place that we think you can safely play golf. >> I I don't know what they offer. Well, we can certainly share those with the council and the golf industry has been very good and criminal getting appropriate there at the state level or in new hampshire. >> I mean where are they again ? We can share those with the council. There's a number of golf agencies that are promulgated best practices in this area. Brookside golf course in the rbc has been very diligent in developing standard operating procedures that ensure the implementation of those guidelines. They've been very responsive and even making more conservative changes or changes that we thought would be better when we gave them feedback they took took the feedback and made the changes. And again, golf courses are currently operating in a number of other counties throughout the state. >> I understand that. I know that golfers and like family they've been golfing but I'm just saying, you know, on one hand we're saying we have our own public health department. We can promulgate our own rules. We're going to do what's safe for dana. The cases are going up in pasadena. I want to know I want to be comfortable with the rules before I authorize golf to be played on the golf course. I'm sure you. I'm sure the rules you know, can be created that will be safe. But we're talking a huge public safety issue here and I just I want to understand what they are and certainly share them. Thank you. And that's because and that's precisely why I gave the direction to staff regarding the blue and trail's attack did not feel comfortable that we had a robust analysis report to be out. I got that I got I understand it for the loop and for trail said why wouldn't apply also to the golf? Well, it does mean any again. I think what the city manager is saying is recall it's included in the analysis and the preparation of the draft health threat. But you're right we don't have it right. It's got leave tomorrow. Right. For tomorrow. So the golf course will be open tomorrow. >> only if the council only of the council tells me you'd like to see the golf course open tomorrow. But what you're hearing to be the part of the problem is we don't know. We don't have the information. I mean I wish it went well when I can see the the the the fact that the things you put in place to keep it safe make it safe to keep it safe. Then I'm very comfortable voting on it. But council member right. These are essentially administrative guidelines that are promulgated in this case by way of the health department. We're happy to share them but we didn't believe that the council wants to review and approve. And whether that's appropriate or not to review these are the esso piece for the golf golf course. These are the iso ps for the florist. These are the essay for this I want to change and see if I want to have input into them. >> I want to see that. That's fine and we will provide them to you. >> ok. Mr. Masuda then Mr. Kennedy Mr. Masuda you need to mute that. I like to ask the ed tech committee I guess us starting with you, victor. Was there anyone sitting on the tape that had a conservative view here about maybe we should? I mean not so fast. Look at san francisco. You know, I've been asking questions about the rebound of called 19. And we should be listening to our health director. She started to open up starting with our numbers are not going down. They're actually going up and here we talking about what kind of plan we should have going forward. I think thanks for the question of you know, every member of attack is concerned primarily about public safety and the health implications of cobra, the what we are responding to is a draft health directive prepared by the the health department and Dr. Grow and the staff was asking for guidance. Related to the recommendation of the health director. And so yeah, I mean I would say to you the committee acted very conservatively including not not agreeing to go forward the loop until we have more analysis in a robust and thorough plan for reopening of trails. And lou, the staff and the city manager can tell you was prepared to move forward with an issue that health director without the guidance of the committee or the council until we scheduled these meetings. And Mr. City manager, I think administrative leave that was the process initially correct that the staff believes it has the authority or does have the authority to move forward with or without the concurrence of the council that that May. >> although on monday evening I did pose a question to the council and so that helped shaped it. I'm grateful for today's opportunity to meet with ed tech in the council because I want to make sure that we're all in accord and that's why I'm asking for the council to let me know if we don't want to avail ourselves to what the governor is offering in terms of the limited retail and the recreation. Please let me know. And obviously that they can be passed. I'm not hearing. Well, you know, let's assume the council's comfortable with the limited retail activity. We do have procedures and protocols that we will send to our area businesses on what they'll have to do if the council wants to proceed with some recreational activities such as golf. We're prepared to tell the rbc that they're in business for golf. But if the council is wanting to hear a little bit more about how to manage the loop and trails, we can certainly put that discussion off until monday. I would I would like to get you know, I would benefit from from getting the council's full wisdom on those points. Well, you know, married. >> I'm I'm all for having a kind of a balanced approach here and there were, you know, a shared approach. I'm not going to be the person that says no, we shouldn't open . But you know, I think that we should have that view and listen to the our our health director very closely here hear her thoughts on really was she what we should be doing because when victor said safety first. I I agree with that. But we should definitely listen to what our health director has to say. Thank you. Just. Just to be clear the the the again the the proposal the draft health directive was prepared by Dr. Gross and that's what the committee got comfortable with. Proceeding with it. Dr. Go's recommendation May end maybe it'd be helpful if Dr. Go can explain why she feels comfortable issuing that directive and recommending essentially to tap into or counsel that we have this soft reopening consistent with or I should say if and when the governor makes it effective which is formal action. Right. Maybe Dr. Goldman provide that explanation me right. I see what you what you provided earlier, Mr. And what margaret said and I'm concerned that, you know, through this plan that Mr. Madison talked about, we'll be moving so quickly that we won't be careful enough to say that we'd take temperatures of everyone with a scanner to go into a business. I mean when you go to trader joe's now to give you a sanitizer, everybody has to have it before they go to the store in the store because they had the problem in south pasadena. So that's why we we have to make sure we have all these things in place. And if they do have a temperature, what happens? >> the junior seau. So we're clear the committee is not recommending anything that Dr. Gould didn't herself recommend. She's with committee concurs with a recommendation of Dr. Go Mr. Radisson and the other members of the committee are suggesting that we move to phase deeper into phase two or deeper into phase 3. The recommendation of the committee is to start discussions about what moving deeper into phase 2 and phase 3 might look like when it is safe to move there of what it might look like in pasadena. And can we model can we become a model for how other communities should move into these two different lives team members phase 3 because are small and we're manageable and we have our own health department. Minnesota I thank you. Thank you, mary. Leave it at that right now, Mr. Kennedy. Okay. So my view is all of this is somewhat premature. Ed tech has its role and I think it's more economic and technical in all of that. The public safety committee albeit some members of ed tech. I think the vise mayor and council member madison are members. There's some overlap there. But there are folks on the public safety committee who have a technical background in public safety and so we need to give an opportunity unless there's a reason why we cannot public safety to weigh in and give some direction to staff. My my view if we had lots of time of course is this should be a committee of the whole. However, I don't think that's the best way in which to make decisions and hasn't been the historical way in which we make decisions. So I think if we're going to open even the soft opening this is to all my colleagues and to staff we need to at least wait one week. And what I mean by one week that even if the governor issues an order that would allow the flexibility of the soft opening tomorrow, we're not ready. And what's the critical piece from the public safety not from ed tech, but I think every member of the council respects this is the safety of the individuals who are residents and the visitors to the city of pasadena. I'm not comfortable I'm not going to be rubber stamping somebodies decision at a higher level and saying that we can do this one week will not make a huge difference if we need to take another week to get protocols in place that are going to ensure that people's lives are protected. If you've had the full measure of the committees and the council weighing in on that. And so my view from where I sit today irrespective of the governor's order is that there policies and procedures that need to be clearly publish. Everyone understands what we're doing. And one week is not going to break us as a community. Given the fact of all the other things that have occurred prior to this meeting tonight. So that's that's my view. I'm not going to belabor it. There are other people would like to share their views as well. But that's mine and I want to be clear about it. Thank you, mayor. That why we're here with the whole. Most committees are present every before convulsively any then married to this speech blind to john's concern. It is a balancing act and I think an ad taken by the way that meeting was abbreviated and ensure that when we would like I think what we concluded is by probing in once again I think it would be appropriate to circulate the protocols on the retail and the golf. It's good the brookside web site, it actually gives you all the protocols. It's already been published. Well, we got to the loop. It felt like we weren't sure we didn't get confidence. Addison at lupin in the kind of betrayals it felt like they were still formulating those things so we couldn't you know, our guess our choice would be to hold everything up so that we have a whole package and we have we've kind of evaluate everything or to release parts of the open up a small part of our community where we feel like there's been enough best practices and protocols are well developed so that we can start at least providing a baby step responsible baby step towards you know, getting people, you know, drop retail, isn't it? People have already been doing that and this is well understood our pick up retail. So I think there is a differentiation edtech committee saw and I think our recommendations reflected. I think that the robustness of the preparations in those areas that weren't well prepared we have suggested that those take more time which I think which john is where you were going as madison. Thank you, ma'am. I mean I think first of all it's disappointing that we find ourselves at this juncture because the county is going to move more quickly. Apparently they already have and so surrounding communities are going to be pursuing this stage to golf courses, trails outside. So we're gonna face tremendous scrutiny and rightly so given that we should be leading them because we're pasadena. We have a great staff and we have our own public health department and director who has the authority under the state law to to be a leader. And so where we came out at the committee was look, we need more information. We need a plan. But there are some things that we should be able to move forward with right now. The golf course is part of the rbc. The rbc is drowning right now and golf courses have been open around the state for two, three weeks now and in many places and there are protocols the city manager set forth that are I happen to be a little bit of a duffer so I'm familiar with those and the rbc and the golf course can roll those out and do that. So where we came out was our direction to the staff that we wanted to recommend was go forward cautiously with safety and science being our north star. But let's go forward because we're going to be left behind. Right. Not only are we not going to be a leader, we're gonna be left behind. And I think that is also possible with some of the other potential uses. For example, retail bookstores and florists. Sunday is mother's day. People in pasadena should be able to call the florist. Then I just started the name you know some that we all know. But I won't do that. But to call in and meet them curbside and pick up flowers for their moms in their lives. So yes, if you we could just take a blanket sort ham handed approach and just say we're not coming out of our homes ever or at least until there's not a single case left. But the reality is that the economic harm that we're inflicting is ultimately probably equally impactful as this potent virus. What what percentage Mr. City manager of our fatalities? I think we have sixty five now how many are from skilled nursing facilities or long term care? I would turn to Dr. Go for greater precision. Thank you. The number of fatalities related to skilled nursing facility at 90 percent. So you know when we think about outside exercises the doctor has already said, you know, there's a lower risk. I can't recall if she described that in the committee or in this meeting. But you know, there's there's a much lower risk for outside activity. If you then impose appropriate scaffolding we can get the rose bowl involvement, we can get the golf courses open, we can bring in some revenue. We can give people an opportunity to to get some fresh air and relieve a little bit of steam and we can start to get our other bookstores and florists them and you it's disappointing that we don't have a plan with our own health department and with all of the talented staff that have been out of work for so long. Ready to go. But we are where we are. We should be forward looking but we shouldn't just put our head in the sand on don't remember madison again at the staff level we we do have a plan and we've been working depart mentally on that to facilitate the implementation of the governor's orders. We were prepared today to talk at greater length with edtech about moving deeper into stage two. There's going to be a number of policy issues that will need probably to bring to the council to make modifications to rules to facilitate businesses. I want to assure you the staff has a plan and we're moving with all haste this evening. We're asking the council do you want us to continue to move a pace consistent with the broader los angeles region within the parameters established by the governor or would you like us to move slower? Well, that depends on your advice. As our professional and quite sure. My advice would be to take advantage of the opportunity that the governor is providing us in terms of our business community and our recreational activities. Our plan is to staff employees both our commercial districts and in our recreational areas to monitor crowds to monitor compliance of businesses. I understand that the council May want greater comfort or more of a plan as it relates to the loop if you're hesitant to go forward with the loop. We can wait and discuss that more monday but I would assure you that we would have staff there to monitor to notice how many people show up to see if people are practicing social distancing and then we can assess whether that activity is is going on in a safe manner or whether we need to make some adjustments. If the council wants us instead to hold off and study such things as closing the loop to be heckler traffic, having the city attorney consider whether we can limit it to pasadena residents only we're happy to pursue all of those options. >> corner water make a point of order at Mr. Kennedy impression there were limited by time tonight I'm not aware that I think Dr. Go should make a presentation and explain why her health directive is the right thing to do so that Mr. Kennedy and others will feel comfortable and why it's the right thing to do and the same thing to do. She has done battle is conducted an analysis written the draft order that she believes is presumably safe for the city to give effect to and so she should explain that the golf operation is great as an example the golf operations guidelines and procedures have been approved by Dr. Joe. They went back and forth between the rba she and dr go and have been approved. And so I would like that presentation from Dr. Go so we can all feel comfortable as we give guidance to the staff. >> ok. In terms of the the discussion I mean it seems to me that the. There isn't a there are uncertainties about how certain council members feel in terms of the very limited retail the governor has authorized. But I think the point is well made by by mr wilson and others that the protocols for that kind of curbside service are well-established. We've had inspection protocols in time in place for some time and those those very modest retail activities. I think my personal reaction is it would be really a shame not to take advantage of that very modest forward step with very minimal exposure. The golf issue has been pretty thoroughly vetted around the state and the protocol as Mr. Madison has stipulated have been well established and although not all of us have seen them or conversed with them, they've been in play for for quite some time and I have a level of confidence about that. The sticking point seems to be in terms of what the immediate potential opening relates to some of the trails and the roseville loop which has been the focus of a lot of attention that all and comments that a lot of us have received and from my point of view I'm anxious to get that open as soon as possible. But to the extent that ed tech raised some questions that weren't adequately explored or responded to by staff, I think we certainly would be prudent to hold off on that until everybody is satisfied that we're doing it the safest possible way. I would point out that while counting trails are being opened in city of L.A., trails are being open. I mean runyon canyon for example is not being open. There are some exceptions to that. This is not a mandate from the governor that we open everything. It's just an authorization to do what we feel in our judgment is is safe. And so to the extent there are there unanswered questions with regard to any of these facilities, we should explore them and satisfy ourselves that that we are comfortable with it before then the before we move ahead. So I mean I think that's shakes out. I mean I appreciate Mr. Kennedy's comments and I value them but I think with regard to this six category of retail and curbside only act, you know, sales that that ground has been pretty thoroughly plowed. I think the staff told me there were about 50 is the right number retail establishments that might be impacted in those six categories. That's correct. And so I mean, you know, this is not this is hardly a you know, gigantic reopening. But I think that the public is yearning for some evidence that we are at least moving in an affirmative direction. I share. Council member mark austin and kennedy's comments and masuda about the issue is that, you know, our numbers are not necessarily moving in the right direction and I think that there is this there is a valid point to be made that before there is any really aggressive and I understood that tomorrow the governor is going be announcing even more categories of potential relaxation. I mean this is like a moving train. And so I think that before pasadena jumps on that train, we're going to have you we have a responsibility as a council to make sure that we're satisfied that we're behaving in a responsible way and trying to maintain that balance between wanting to restore normal commerce and life while not jeopardizing human life and resulting in an explosion in in cases in our city. So I value all the comments that have been made. I think that there is a general consensus in terms of the what should be opened per the for the order the revised order that would be issued by Dr. Go. And I think it's a although we're going to take a lot of heat for it. I think it is probably a sound idea to make sure that the council is satisfied with the answers relating to the trails in the loop. So I think that these discussions are going to be intense and ongoing and I think we ought to recognize that this is a very dynamic environment and the regular you know, these pronouncements from the from the governor seem to be coming at an accelerated rate and frankly sometimes they raise more questions and provide answers. And we're just going to have to deal with that with that reality like mayor, thank you. I have a question and this is a yes or no question, by the way. Is it true that our numbers will continue to rise as positive cases until herd immunity is rich? This is the Dr. Go whoever can answer if there is human to human interaction, there's opportunity for virus to spread. And I would expect cases to rise. I ask the question is it true that cases will continue arise until we reach herd immunity? I think the short answer is yes . No actually if we eat at home if we stayed at home this whole time until we have a vaccine then if there were cases were not increase I think the answer is yes. >> once again, thank you. So with that being said, I you know, cases are going to continue to go up a bit. I think that something Dr. Goh said 90 percent of our deaths have been a result to skilled nursing facilities. So basically if there 54 people use it, 64 people today. That's correct. At this point whoever can answer that she's double checking her dashboard mayor while she's looking up. >> I just want to let you know we have 17 public comments to read aloud. So I just wanted to let you know that I think the number is 65. >> vise mayor 65 was the number. >> thank you. >> and so around our surrounding communities. I don't know of anybody who's been outside of the house at all. Maybe some people haven't. But I have I'm considered one of the central class of working groups. So I I'm out and about all throughout the city, all throughout los angeles county. I was in long beach yesterday. I was actually in irvine last night. And you know, their trails are seem to be open throughout urbana. I saw people running last night. I don't know what their numbers are constantly going up. I didn't look the other day but it seemed like they were kind of flat. So I understand everybody wants to be cautious. I totally get it. But our numbers aren't going to are going to go down and once again until we until we've reached immunity and some people are are just going to decide not to go outside because they don't want to go outside. But we should let people have a choice. We're not giving our residents a choice at this point. Would the governor released a statement tomorrow regardless if we act or not, the rosewall will start to open on its own. People are going to start running down there. I mean this morning I ran what I didn't run around the law school. I drove my car down by the roseville and there are people running around the roseville now so I would not be comfortable with opening up the golf course. I mean if this is the plan of action, open the golf course walking rosewall because got to be really hard for hours number one for people to even manage. I mean I could just go barking and the golf course laden and run around roseville. So if we're not going to open up anything in the rose bowl or anything in that area, then just don't open up anything as far as the trails go. Well, I mean L.A. County is opening up its trails are just connect to L.A. County. So how do you keep parks trails closed down? I don't understand that logic but you know, be it causes as you like. >> I think people are going to be courses anyway. People are out exercising on a day to day and it will continue to do so in probably going to start doing it more and more especially as our regional partners continue to open up. So I think that we have to I don't necessarily want to be a leader but I definitely don't want to be way behind. And I think that we we have a health department and we have health department we have our own health department and we should be doing what our best. We believe our best practices, you know, such as city manager. I have a question if we have a city council meeting today, what would you have done? I would have Dr. Doctor go would have issued her order taking advantage of the loosening of restrictions authorized by the governor. So you would have more board with the government. Governor suggestions? Yes. Thank you. I mean so that that just for my colleagues, you know, we would have more or regardless of the fact that we would at this meeting or not. So that was that was based on no I know we're having this meeting now and it doesn't seem like running you're moving forward but the right the rationale was based on staying in concert with our other regional partners and then sort of that quick kind of check in with the council monday night. The reaction in terms of allowing the limited retail my takeaway was that council was generally supportive of that and then to my colleagues, you know, there's no guarantee that we'll ever have a vaccine for this. >> so at some point you know, wouldn't do we keep on keeping people into their homes and people were born as people were going to start coming out last night when I was in orange county watching the waves because the late I forget what exactly was going I should ask my doctor. >> I was really cool. But I want to tell you that there were thousands of people out there. Thank you. And carson? Yeah, I just I just want to sum up I understand the governor's order opening the golf course and the businesses that drive two businesses. I get that. I'm okay with that. I'm just saying if we're if we have our own health department ,we have our own city and the numbers are going up. I want to see the rules around that. This to the city manager. I don't want to write the rule book. I don't want to vote on the rules. I want to see the rules. We're opening the golf course. And these are the rules and regs and how that's going to be done. We're entitled to that. I'm entitled to know that I know the governor did what the governor did. That's great suits can also. But I want to be assured that when I see that step that is going to be that rules have been developed. You can say yes, we've done it. We haven't done it. Steve says we've done it. Ok. Send them out to us and we will. I mean you're not getting. Why are we getting the information ag