Oct 25, 2022 - 06:24 PM

Good evening. We call this meeting to order. This is the regular joint meeting of the Oakley city Council, acting as successor agency to the development agency. Today is Tuesday, October 25th. 2022. >> Miss Williams? >> Sue Higgins. >> George Philip. >> And I'm Randy Pope. Next item up as the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag. It will be led tonight by --. Who is the fifth grade student at iron house elementary. She has an older and younger brother. She's very passionate as a dancer, and dances every single day. She hopes to become a professional dancer when she was. When she grows up. >> Please join me for the pledge. >> [ Music ] I Pledge Allegiance To The Flag Of The United States Of America And To The Republic For Which It Stands One Nation Under God Indivisible With Liberty And Justice For All. >> [ Indiscernible - low volume ] >> Thank you. Next item up this presentation a proclamation. Recognizing the community health fun day. Can Kim Dillinger. Okay. The me down in France. Me down there in front presented. >> Were as the John Mayer community health fund was established in 1997. The medical center, at the healthcare, district merged to form the John your healthcare system. The health system established and credited in independent community benefit corporation. Whereas the board of the community health fund is comprised of three reps and it is, funded by the city of Concord, two representatives appointed by the city of --. Five members appointed by the John Mayer Association. Whereas the mission is to distribute grants and partner with community-based, nonprofit organizations. Sustainable health initiatives that expand and enhance healthcare and wellness services. For those most in need essential, across the county. Whereas over the 25 year history, the John Mayer community health fund is distributed over $31.5 million in grant funding to over 100 community-based, nonprofit organizations. That of -- that have delivered essential, health services, for hundreds and thousands. Whereas the community health fund worked to support the creation of partnerships. That have been recognized by the state of California and nationally. Such as the health care pathway. Partnership between empowered aging opportunity junction. A food bank, and --. Which has expanded with the five and half million dollars grant for the state of California by additional counties in California. Whereas, the community health fund has evolved from supporting organizations that deliver direct healthcare to building lasting relationships with community-based, nonprofit organization that adjusts the social determinants of health and systemic racism leading to better health outcomes and a better quality of life for our community. There is the community health fund has shown by its actions and good works for the past 25 years that it's a significant asset to the community. Batting leadership, providing leadership, partnership, and funding projects that have greatly benefited the citizens. Now, therefore, I, Randy Pope, mayor of the city of Oakley, on behalf of the entire city Council, I hereby proclaim Thursday, October 25th, 2022, the John community health one day -- John community health fund day for the city of Oakley. I urge all citizens to recognize the achievements of the health fund. To our community. I commend the organization for their wonderful heritage and a bright future. >> Photographer? >> Thank you so much. >> Mayor Pope, councilmembers, Pleasant Hill city council, I had the privilege of serving on the health fund board for eight years. One of the best assignments I've had on the city Council. So much so that when my term expired, on the board, we created an advisory board so I can stay involved. I want to share two things. Specific East County and the neighbor tier that is supporting the VFW. They came to us and told us that the challenges that our veterans were facing here, getting the healthcare they needed. Were able to find the VFW and -- become a recognized qualified healthcare provider. So the vets are living out in East County and don't have to put up with the challenges of getting to other VA facilities to get the healthcare they need. The other is --. They are working with our immigrant population. Those working in the agricultural industry. During the corporate pandemic, they faced significant challenges getting access to healthcare. So we fund that organization as well. We continued up right -- we continue to provide support for the community. It's great to not only work with them, but to provide the service -- he. Thank you. >> Next item up with public comments. This is an opportunity for members of the public to speak on items which are not on the agenda tonight. If you wish to public comment or speak on an item on the agenda, please fill out one of these cards. Located right outside the door there. Has them forward, so we know to call you when the appropriate time comes. Greece? Do you wish to speak, Bruce? Please come forward. Introduce yourself to everybody so everybody knows who you are. Tell us what you came to tell us. >> Thanks, good evening. I am Bruce Olsen. Is Kelsey's -- East County is Mr. bicycle. I rode my bicycle to tonight's meeting. As you probably already know, Costco has applied to Brentwood to build a warehouse superstore in the northwest corner of that city. South of the Home Depot and at the foot of the new pedestrian and bicycle bridge that is currently being built over Highway 4. This is right at the corner of the borders of Antioch, Brentwood, and Oakland. Brentwood wants to see this store built. They are not requiring any significant medications. A store this size generally adds about 10,000 new car trips per day. To help compensate for all of the new trips, we, the city of Oakley, should ask for some bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure improvements in the vicinity. It's only reasonable. A perfect projects would be to add sidewalks and bike lanes to the railroad crossing of Empire Avenue. Empire Avenue is a major route between Oakley and the shopping center surrounding Lonetree Way and Highway 4. Currently, if the deathtrap for anybody not in an automobile. The segment of Empire Avenue needing improvement is only a quarter-mile long. However, it is right on the border with the city of Antioch. So, you and Antioch will have to cooperate a little bit. It'll be worth it though if we can get Brentwood to require Costco to pay. Remember, we are talking about pedestrian -- one more sentence? >> You have another minute. >> Oh, another minute was to okay, sorry. Remember, we are talking pedestrian and bicycle safety improvements How can Costco refuse? Thank you for your consideration. >> Any other members of the public wish to speak? Let's move on to 3.0, which is a consent calendar. Any items, 3.3 and 3.9? >> 3.6 as well. >> 3.11. >> I'll move the remainder. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Aye. >> It's unanimous. 3.3. Was that you, Mr. Fuller? >> Yes it was. We will start with, I want to thank Mr. McMurray and Mr. O Hani and all those who went about making this construction come about. Something I campaigned on back in 2020. Something that went on. I need to acknowledge that Mr. McMurray and the staff inherited what I believe to be a terrible situation. It should not have happened. Instead, they want to build a rec center. Which took $20,000 a year -- $200,000 a year out of our general fund. To expand the Cyprus. As result, our roadways were in serious need. Mr. McMurray, along with the staff, has done it and tested job. I want to say it and brag about it. There are five major projects going on. At this time. Cyprus, Laurel, and O'Hara. Laurel, and [ Inaudible ]. I believe that's the five. It took a major amount of work. I want to thank them first before I go on. This one in particular, the construction company I'm aware of. Back in 2020, when I was going through different plans and bits and construction bids. One thing I noticed continually was R&R was low bidder and considerably below the second bid. It was there. That definitely caught my attention. I asked Mr. O Hani about it. They said R&R does a lot of work. They are familiar with Oakley and have a relationship with staff. Mr. Montgomery went on. I think we'll probably hear from this Sunday. And today's the day. It's a project I really want to see done. It's origins. I'll go there. I am in some difficulty. I'm relying heavily on Mr. Cole's assessment -- but my confidence in Mr. call has waned after a third incident involving salary negotiations. It's there. I'm hesitant to call my confidence behind this. So, I'm trying to figure out which way to go. Make sure to do the right thing. In doing so, you can ask Mr. Mori to contact a second and third attorney. One of them could be the Attorney General's office. To make sure the figures are in order. I don't want this projects going halfway through. Suddenly, we have been waylaid by another construction firm. We haven't paid the wage, and we have labor violations going about. I have not talked to Mr. McMurray and asked his choice. But I'm going to to go for that. But I'm glad we are doing this work. >> Can introduce the item to the members of the public to what we are talking about? >> Yes, Mr. Mayor. Mayor Pope, adviser Meadows, members of the Council, I'm pleased to present to you the construction contract for the section of the Cyprus Road. As counselor Fuller mentioned, this is been a work in project for the community. The project for the prior fiscal year. Throughout last year. We worked in design of the project. It's very complex with many moving parks. We finished the design of the tail end of the summer. We opened bids. We were competitive from the staff's perspective. This brings us to the evening to the board. Also, to clarify the public, when we bid projects, large or small, these are precisely the standard specification bid documents. When we bid a project, whether it's this or any other project, whether it's publicly, all contractors can bid. They require payment, we check those things. Require certified payrolls from all contractors. Big or small. Whether it's a $100,000 projects, or a $10 million project. We don't take anybody's board, we pay the appropriate wages. Everything is done. This is an important business. This is something which is look at haphazardly. Because we have a low number. The contractors are all accountable completely. In the construction business, it's not uncommon that any contract, they may have some areas they make. This is R&R. There was some errors made. We have vetted this clearly. Staff, city attorney, were dissected those. We looked at everything. We found no merit. I would never bring any contract to the board if I do not feel confident as far as the contract been able to do the project. And give us some good value. Also, on these bids, these are all closed bids. They'll print envelopes. Right here at this podium. The representatives of this contract when we're sitting. Check the documents. Read them. That's the nature of this business. From the certified payroll betting the contract. All of those things. I'm very comfortable this contractor can do the job. They bid it on other projects for us. Sometimes it's a low bidder. Sometimes there aren't. It's the nature of the business. Last year, they bid it on the parking lot improvement project, next door. Which was below their project. That's just the nature of the bidding process. Certainly, the city attorney can chime in. And some other correspondence. That is been brought. But again, I'm going to show you, in the community, any bid we do, it goes through the formal bidding process. As part of your consent, we are improving the contract. It will be out next month. They all go through the exact same process. But, clearly, check all the documents. Make sure it's the lowest responsible bidder. Sometimes, we may have a low bidder. But the paperwork things are not in order. So that the response. That's a brief summary of my report. I'll be happy to answer any questions. >> Yes, Mayor Council? Quickly. We did receive a number of comments from, what looks like, a concerted effort to address these issues. None of them are meritorious. Essentially, one claim is that paperwork was not filled out properly. But, the bidder actually followed the form the city provided. Followed instructions the city provided. Not only that, the concept of response this -- responsiveness. When a bid is not responsive, that means there is some damage financially. Whether intentionally or not. The lowest bidder would obtain. This is a paperwork error. At most. Even if we attributed to the bidder. That would not be something that would affect the price that the bid came in at. Again, in my opinion, that's maybe not completely frivolous argument. But it really borders on that by the parties that expressed concerns. Secondly, there was an issue -- the second issue was related to the percentage bid being lower. But the party raising the issue did not identify any line items they thought were below what was required. At a minimum, somebody would need to show, this particular line item doesn't match up. Engaged in some back of the napkin math, whatever the term is. It doesn't meet the legal standards. Whether it's me or another lawyer, this is really basic stuff. It doesn't pass the smell test. His arguments are not the same. Councilmember Fuller, when we spend money on a contract, prevailing wages apply. >>> I'VE BEEN VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT, PARTICULARLY IN CONTEXT. THAT IS NOT REALLY A CITY -ATTORNEY ISSUE. THERE'S A WHOLE HOST, AS HE HAS DESCRIBED. FAILSAFES AND CHECKS THAT OUR STAFF DONE IN THE FIELD THROUGH PAPERWORK WE HAVE THE DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS, WHICH WATCHES THESE PROJECT. I WILL TELL YOU IN THE -- AND THE CITY CLERK CAN ATTEST -- WE GET PUBLIC RECORD REQUESTS ON THESE PROJECTS. WE HAVE TO TURN THE DOCUMENTS AROUND TO THEM. YOU HAVE A GENUINE AND PROPER CONCERN ABOUT MAKING SURE PUBLIC WAGES ARE PAID, PREVAILING WAGES ARE PAID. BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT THERE ARE MANY MECHANISMS AT STAFF AND STATE LEVEL TO MAKE SURE THAT OCCURS. NOT ONLY THAT, BUT IF THE CONTRACTOR FAILS IN THAT REGARD, THEY FACE SOME STEEP PENALTIES THAT CANNOT ONLY AFFECT THEIR PROFITABILITY ON THIS PROJECT, BUT COULD AFFECT THEIR ABILITY TO GET PROJECTS IN THE FUTURE. THERE ARE A LOT OF SWORDS OVER THE HEAD, SO TO SPEAK, TO MAKE SURE. YOU HAVE A VALID CONCERN. I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR, FROM MY STANDPOINT AND STAFF STANDPOINT, THIS PROJECT HAS BEEN PROPERLY HANDLED. THE SAFEGUARDS ARE IN PLACE, AND STAFF WILL DO ITS JOB. >> ALL RIGHT. ANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WISH TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? WE WILL PUT IT UP TO DELIBERATIONS. DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO ADD? >> ONE COMMENT. PURCHASED IN OUR LINE OF WORK, AND IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS COMMON, AS HAVING BEEN IN OAKLEY. WE'VE HAD BIGGER PROJECTS. SOME OF THE BIGGER CONTRACTORS, THEY TRIED TO SOME POPULARITY WITH THE LOWER BIDDER. THE CONTEST LETTER, AND THEN GET THE JOB. THIS IS VERY COMMON PRACTICE. WE'VE HAD OTHER PROJECTS, AND WE'VE HAD TO COMPLETELY COME BACK TO OUR ASSESSMENT. AGAIN, THERE'S MULTIPLE ROUNDS OF VETTING AND CHECKING. >> THANK YOU. MR. MEADOWS. >> HAVE WE HAD ANY ISSUES WITH THEM OUT OF THE ORDINARY? >> NO. NOT AT ALL. >> ONE OF THE LETTERS THAT CAME, AND WE ALL SAW OVER THE PAST FEW DAYS, THAT MADE THE ASSERTION THAT LOW BIDS FOR THE PROJECT, AND TRYING TO MAKE UP THE REVEALING WAGES IN CHANGE ORDER. CHANGE ORDERS ARE DRIVEN BY STEP. THE CONTRACTOR DOESN'T COME IN RIGHT ORDERS LEFT AND RIGHT. AS FAR AS R&R SPECIFIC, ANY CHANGES WE HAVE DONE, AS IN ALL THINGS DURING THE COURSE OF PROJECT, THINGS WANT TO COME UP AND WE HAD AN DEDUCT CHANGES. ALL DIRECTED BY STEP. WE DON'T GIVE THEM TO THE CONTRACTOR, NO MATTER HOW BIG OR SMALL THE JOB IS. >> THANK YOU. >> MISS WILLIAMS. >> WE HAD A LETTER THAT WAS SPECIFICALLY SAYING THERE WAS SOME ACCUSATIONS ABOUT PREVAILING WAGES PAYING AT THE OAKLEY DOG PARK. YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THE WAGES PAID? >> NO, COUNCILMEMBER WILLIAMS. ALL OF THE PROJECTS THAT THEY HAVE DONE FOR US IN THE PAST, AND THEY INCLUDE THE BIDDING PROCESS. WE'VE NOT HAD ANY ISSUES. SOME OF THOSE ASSERTIONS THAT WAS MADE IN THOSE LETTERS, RED AND I WAS SCRATCHING MY HEAD. I SAID I DON'T REMEMBER ANY OF THOSE, AND I WAS RUNNING THOSE PROJECTS. I WAS PUZZLED. A LOT WAS UNSUBSTANTIATED EVIDENCE. FOR INSTANCE, MR. TURNEY SAID THE BID ON THIS JOB IS LIKE 15% BELOW THE ESTIMATE. IT WASN'T 15. IT WAS SIMPLE MATH. IT WAS A PRESENT. FOR THE CITY AND VERY FORTUNATE IF I CAN GET A BIT, WHICH IS 10% OF MY ESTIMATE. AGAIN, FOR THE BROADER AUDIENCE, THOSE MAY NOT BE THE CONSTRUCTION BUSINESS, THIS IS A PROJECT THAT HAS A OVER 85 BID ITEMS. MEANING COMPONENTS FROM LUMBER, GRAVEL, THIS TO THAT. WHEN CONTRACTORS BID PROJECTS, WE HAD NINE. I WAS LOOKING THIS EVENING ON THE SANITARY SEWER LINE. THE UNIT PRICE PER FOOT THAT YOU SEE ON THIS, RANGES FROM $195 A FOOT TO $350 A FOOT. SOME MAY WONDER WHAT IS GOING ON. SOMETHING FISHY IS GOING ON. IT ISN'T. THAT IS THE NATURE OF ONE CONTRACTORS BID. DIFFERENT THAN THIS. YOU AND I GOING TO HOME DEPOT. BUYING A SHEET OF PLYWOOD. THERE'S A PRICE TAG. YOU PAY $70 AND WALK OUT. ALL OF THE CONTRACTORS THAT HAVE ARRANGEMENT RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE SUPPLIERS, SO THE PRICE FOR LUMBER -- LET'S SAY THIS CONTRACTOR GETS IT NOT THIS CONTRACTOR. AS WELL, GRAVEL, ALL COMPONENTS. THAT'S THE NATURE OF THE BIDDING AND CONTRACT XP MET ONE MORE THING. IN OUR BID PROCESS, AND WE ASKED THEM FOR THE DIR NUMBERS FOR THE SUBCONTRACTORS? >> NO. BUT THE QUESTION WE ARE GOING TO UPDATE OUR SHEETS, OUR BID LIST. IT DOES NOT HAVE ROOM FOR THAT NUMBER. FOR THIS SUBCONTRACTOR. WE ALWAYS WANT TO IMPROVE. THAT WAS ONE THING THAT WAS BROUGHT UP. IT'S JUST A SHEET AS PART OF THE STANDARD CONTRACT DOCUMENT. WE WILL ADD IT FOR FUTURE PROJECTS. A LOT OF THEM, THEY WRITE IT BY HAND ON THE SITE. THIS IS A CONTRACTORS NOT JUST MOM-AND-POP SHOPS BUT DON'T KNOW THE RULES OF THE GAME. >> DID R& R WRITE THE SUBCONTRACTOR NUMBERS? OKAY. OKAY. >> MR. FULLER. >> YES, THANK YOU FOR YOUR INFORMATION. READING YOUR REPLIES, REMEMBER THE CITY YOU WORKED IN WAS WITH THE CITY ATTORNEYS. WHEN YOU RESPONDED. PROBABLY MORE IMPORTANTLY, TO ME, BUT WAS DISAPPOINTED, ACTUALLY, YOU CAN RELATE THIS TO R&R. THE ATTORNEY, AND ALL I REMEMBER IS POWER AT THE TOP OF THE LETTERHEAD. I'M NOT QUITE SURE OF THE NAME. WHEN I READ THROUGH THE LETTER, IT SAID WE WENT TO DIR WE'VE GOT THAT. THIS IS ALL SOUR GRAPES. THEY LOST THE BID. THE PHRASE DID NOT APPEAR, BUT I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO SEEN. DESPITE ALL THAT, WE WILL HEAR OF THE PREVAILING WAGE. THAT DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE LETTER. YES, WE DO ACKNOWLEDGE WE WILL HERE TO PREVAILING WAGES. I WOULD FEEL A WHOLE LOT BETTER. >> COUNCILMEMBER FULLER, AND A CONTRACTOR, THESE ARE ANY THAT WE OUGHT TO IN THE PAST, WHEN THIS KIND OF CONTRACT SPECIFICALLY REQUIRES PREVAILING WAGES, WHICH OF THOSE THINGS. WHETHER THEY ACKNOWLEDGE SOMEWHERE IS A RELEVANT. THAT IS A PART OF WHERE WE EXPECT OF THEM. AGAIN, I WANT TO REASSURE EVERYBODY. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING ON A LARGE OR SMALL PROJECT. EVERYBODY HAS TO PAY PREVAILING WAGES. WE ASKED FOR THE PAYROLL THAT GOES TO DIR. AGAIN, FULLY TRANSPARENT AND KEPT ON OUR FILES. GOES THROUGH THE STATE. MULTIPLE ROUNDS OF CHECKING ON THIS. >> IT'S LIKE WHEN I OPEN THE DOOR AT THE GROCERY STORE FOR SOMEBODY. I DON'T HAVE TO DO IT, BUT I MAKE SURE. IF THEY SAY THEY WOULD HEAR TO IT IT MAKES ME FEEL BETTER. YET, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO. I AGREE YOU WERE THERE AND YOU WERE WATCHING IT. LET'S TALK WITH YOU ABOUT IT. I AGREE. DEEP DOWN HERE, I WOULD SAY YEAH, WE ARE GOING TO HEAR THE PREVAILING WAGE. >> AGAIN, IT IS A LEGAL BINDING DOCUMENT FROM THE CITY AND ANY CONTRACTOR. IT IS WIDE OPEN. THERE IS NO SECRET. WHEN THEY DID A PROJECT, AS PART OF THE BID DOCUMENT PACKAGE, IT CLEARLY SPELLS OUT, YOU ARE BIDDING FOR A MUNICIPALITY. OAKLEY, OAKLAND, L.A., OR ANYBODY IN BETWEEN. THESE ARE PREVAILING PROJECTS. >> OKAY, THANK YOU. >> HIM OF APPROVAL OF 3.3, AWARDING OF CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT TO R&R PACIFIC CONSTRUCTION FOR ROAD IMPROVEMENTS ON THE EAST CYPRESS ROAD. THE MEXICAN. >> WE HAVE A FIRST AND SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? >> ANY OPPOSED? >> NO. >> A SENTENCE? THREE -1-1. ITEM PASSES. THANK YOU. SECONDS, YOU WANT 3.6? IT WASN'T ME. >> THAT WAS ME. THE ONLY REASON I PULLED THIS ACTUALLY IS BECAUSE I JUST WANTED TO HAVE MORE ATTENTION PUT ON IT SO PEOPLE CAN HEAR MORE. I WOULD LOVE IT EVERY MEETING IF WE TALK ABOUT ALL THE DIFFERENT PROJECTS WE ARE DOING AND HOW WE ARE IMPROVING THE REDWOOD BEER I WAS HOPING YOU CAN GIVE A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF THIS PROJECT AND WHAT IT'S GOING TO DO FOR THE CITY. >> AGAIN, AS MR. FULLER MENTIONED, VERY HIGH PROFILE PROJECT. IT IS A CAPITOL PROJECT, VERY IMPORTANT PROJECT FOR OUR RESIDENTS IN THE FAR EAST SECTION OF OAKLEY ON THE CYPRUS CORRIDOR, WITH ACCESS TO HIGHWAY 4. THIS PROJECT WOULD CREATE A NEW ROADWAY. CURRENTLY WHERE LAUREL ROAD ENDS AND TETON ROAD GOODS TO SELLERS., ECCENTRIC THE ROADWAY WOULD ALL GO TO SELLERS AVENUE. THE NUCLEAR INTERSECTION CREATED UP SELLERS. FOLKS IN THE FAR EAST OAKLEY, THEY HAVE CYPRUS TO NAVIGATE THROUGH. BUT THEY ARE ALSO GOING TO COME ON SELLERS. AND GO BACK TO HIGHWAY 4. THIS PROJECT IN SECTION IS GOING TO TAKE A WHILE. IT'S AN EXPENSIVE PROJECT. A LOT OF COMPONENTS. THE PERMITS WE HAVE TO GET IS GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME. THE FUNDING FOR. THE FIRST PHASE OF THIS PROJECT IS FOR US TO DO A LAYOUT OF THE ROAD. ESTABLISH WHAT WE NEED FOR THE RIGHT AWAY. DO A TOPOGRAPHY SURVEY. WE WILL GET ENGAGED WITH THE PROPERTY OWNERS FOR THE ROADWAY AND THE BRIDGE CROSS. HAVING A CONVERSATION. HOPEFULLY COME UP WITH AMICABLE RESOLUTIONS. NOT THE PROPERTY, BUT THE SECTION FOR THE ROADWAY. AND THEN CONCURRENTLY, WE ARE WALKING ON SECURING GROUNDS FOR THIS PROJECT. ONCE WE DO THAT, WE WILL GET THE PERMITS FROM THE COUNTY. MULTIPLE UTILITIES. AND PROCEED WITH THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE PROJECT. VERY FIRST STEP FORWARD. WE WILL HAVE MORE UPDATES FOR YOU IN THE COMING MONTHS AND YEARS. DEFINITELY POSITIVE STEPS FORWARD TO GETTING MUCH BETTER ACCESS IN THE EAST OAKLEY AREA. >> I MOVED TO APPROVE. 3.6. >> SECOND. >> ALL IN FAVOR. >> OPPOSED. IT'S UNANIMOUS. I BELIEVE FULLER WAS 3.9? >> THERE IS SOMETHING ON THE PUBLIC RECORD FROM MISS JULIE. I JUST WANTED TO THANK HER FOR HER NOTE, AND THINK THE FAMILY FOR COMING TO AN AGREEMENT ON THIS. IT MEANS A LOT TO THE COMMUNITY. I DO NOT KNOW THEM ALL BY SITE. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY IN HERE. THANK YOU IF YOU ARE HERE. SOMEONE IS POINTING IN THE BACK. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IT IS THERE. IF YOU ARE WATCHING FROM HOME, THEN YES, I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE MY GRATITUDE FOR THAT. WITH THAT, WE WILL MOVE THE ITEM. >> SECOND. >> ALL IN FAVOR? OPPOSED? IT'S UNANIMOUS. I THINK IT WAS MR. MEADOWS FOR 3.11? >> YES. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHO EXTRA MILD DAY IS. I'VE NEVER HEARD OF THEM. THEY ARE OUT OF THE AREA. HAS ANYBODY KNOWN WHO THEY ARE? >> I DO NOT. I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THE REQUESTS WE GET AND MULTIPLE CITIES GET TO HAVE IT PROCLAMATION PLACED ON THE AGENDA PROGRAM THAT SERVE THE CITY CLERK RECEIVED THE REQUEST. I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE MORE INFORMATION ON THAT. >> THANK YOU, WE DO NOT HAVE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. I THINK ESTHER McMURRAY EXPRESSED IT ACCURATELY MANY TIMES. COMMISSIONS WILL BE CIRCULATED TO MANY CITIES. THIS MAY BE ONE OF THOSE. I DON'T BELIEVE THEY ARE BASED THERE. >> THE APPLICATION ADDRESS? IT DOES SAY THE EXTRA MILE DAY HAS POSITIVE CHANGE IN OAKLEY THROUGH -- IN SERVICE. AS I UNDERSTAND, EXTRA MILE, BECAUSE THIS REQUEST -- I DON'T KNOW IF IT BECAME SIMULTANEOUS, BUT I FORWARDED TO THE CLERK TO PROCESS THROUGH THE PROCESS. IT JUST MEANS PEOPLE ARE DOING MORE THAN THE BASIC. >> MY ISSUE, WE DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS ORGANIZATION. WE ARE GETTING THESE REQUESTS COMING IN FROM GROUPS OUTSIDE OF OUR AREA, THAT WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. IF WE GO APPROVE IT IT MIGHT BE AN ORGANIZATION WE DON'T WANT TO BE SUPPORTING. >> ANY OTHER DELIBERATIONS ON THIS FILE? A MOTION? I SAW YOU. ARE YOU THINKING? >> HOW DO YOU WORD, I DON'T WANT TO PASS THIS. >> NO. >> NO. THE MOTION IS TO DENY IT. >> AN AYE LOAD IS TO DENY. ALL IN FAVOR? OPPOSED OR IN -- AM GOING TO ABSTAIN. ALL RIGHT. 4.1. THIS IS THE CONTINUED FROM OUR MEETING ON SEPTEMBER 27th. THE GOLDEN OAKS SUBDIVISION , TENTATIVE MAP AND VARIANCE. THEY WANT TO SUBDIVIDE AND BUILD EIGHT SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES. THERE ARE SOME ISSUES WITH TRAFFIC CONCERNS. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. GOOD EVENING MR. MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND AUDIENCE. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING ITEM FOR A TENTATIVE MAP AND VARIANCE REQUEST FOR ENTITLEMENT. THE VICINITY MAP SHOWS THE LOCATION OF THE SITE AND YELLOW. AS WE STAND, IT'S LOCATED JUST TO THE BACK LEFT HERE BEHIND THE EXPANDED POLICE STATION. WEST RUBY STREET AND WILDCAT WAY. THIS IS AN UPDATED AERIAL MAP FROM WHAT WE HAVE SEEN A MONTH AGO. IT SHOWS THE EXPANDED POLICE STATION. THE EXISTING HOME ON THE SITE. THE LOWER LEFT CORNER. THE OTHER ADJACENT ROADS. FUCHSIA WAY ON THE LEFT. WILDCAT WAY COMING IN FROM THE LEFT. THE ROAD ON THE RIGHT, HEADING DOWN TOWARDS THE SOUTH, THE BOTTOM OF THE PHOTO. JUST A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND. THIS ITEM WAS CONTINUED FROM SEPTEMBER 27th CITY COUNCIL MEETING. IT WAS CONTINUED -- IT WAS NOT CONTINUED TO A DATE SOUDAN. THIS WAS RENOTICE THEM REPUBLISHED. THE PUBLIC HEARING NOTICE WAS. THE MAIN ISSUES AT THE MEETING, AND STAFF'S OPINION, WAS WHETHER OR NOT THERE SHOULD BE AN EAST-WEST CONNECTIVITY BETWEEN WILDCAT WAY AND WEST RUBY STREET. ISSUES WITH TRAFFIC THAT MAY COME THROUGH THEIR IF IT WERE CONNECTED. THE CITY COUNCIL GAVE PLENTY OF FEEDBACK TO THE STAFF AND APPLICANT AT THAT MEETING. ONE OF THE MAIN REQUEST WAS THERE WAS A LOT OF TRAFFIC CALMING MEASURES DISCUSSED AT THE MEETING. WHAT WOULD BE REQUIRED OF THE APPLICANT AS FAR AS STOP SIGN WARRANTS. SOME DIFFERING OPINIONS ON HOW THE PROJECT SHOULD BE DESIGNED. THE COUNCIL ASKED THE APPLICANT TO COME BACK WITH SOMETHING THAT WOULD PROVIDE AN ILLUSTRATIVE PLAN OF WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WITH THESE TRAFFIC ON MEASURES. PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT RAISED INTERSECTIONS, SPEED BUMPS, SIGNAGE, ET CETERA. THE APPLICANT DID SUBMIT TRAFFIC CALMING MEASURES EXHIBIT ON OCTOBER 4th. STAFF DID RECEIVE THAT. WE WENT AHEAD AND SCHEDULED THIS HEARING TO THIS DATE AND DID ALL THE THE REQUIRED NOTICING. I'M NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE BACKGROUND WINTER ON THE 27th BECAUSE THIS IS A CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING. ALL OF THE ATTACHMENT WERE REMITTED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE CITY COUNCIL PUBLIC HEARING. THIS PROJECT IS DESIGNATED AS LOW TO MEDIUM IN THE PLAN. IT ALLOWS FOR DENSITY RANGE OF 3.8 TO 5.5 PER ACRE. THIS COMES IN AT FOUR. AT THE LOWER END OF THAT RANGE. ZONING REQUIRES 6000 FOOT SCROLL UP. THERE'S A VARIANCE REQUEST FOR THE LOTS, FOR DIFFERENT REASONS. ONE IS LOT SIZE, WIDTHS, AND IRREGULAR TRIANGULAR SHAPE. ONE EXISTING FAMILY RESIDENTS LOCATED ON THE PROJECT, WHICH IS SEEN ON THE AERIAL APP. IT WILL REMAIN AND REMAIN ON ITS OWN. APPROXIMATELY 17,000 SQUARE FEET OF THE PROPERTY WAS SOLD TO THE CITY BEFORE THE POLICE PARKING LOT EXPANSION. THERE ARE TWO ENTITLEMENT REQUESTS WHICH I MENTIONED DURING THE TITLE SLIDE. SUBDIVIDE THE SLOT INTO A LOTS. A VARIANCE REQUEST AND THE 20 SWINGS OPEN SEPTEMBER 27 SELF-REPORT. A FEW DETAILS HERE. THIS TENTATIVE MAP, IF IT WERE APPROVED, AND EVENTUALLY THE LOTS WERE CONSTRUCTED WITH SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES, IT WOULD RESULT IN SEVEN ADDITIONAL SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES, SINCE ONE IS ALREADY EXISTING. DEDICATION OF RIGHT AWAY ALONG ITS BORDERS WHERE APPROPRIATE, AND ALONG THE ROAD THAT IS SUPPOSED TO GO THROUGH THAT SUBDIVISION. LOT THREE IS AN ABNORMAL SHAPE AND HAS A REAR YARD BECAUSE OF THE CURVE IN THE ROAD. THEY ARE REQUESTING A VARIANCE FOR ABOUT LAW. FOUR IS JUST UNDER THE 6000 SQUARE FEET. LOT 6 AND SEVEN ARE ABOUT FOUR FEET SHORT OF THE MEDIUM WITH REQUIRED IN THE STANDARDS. THESE ARE NECESSARY BECAUSE OF THE ROAD. WITH THE RIGHT AWAY THAT GOES THROUGH THERE, EVEN IF YOU GO DIRECTLY FROM THE POLICE TO PARKING LOT. IF YOU HAVE A ROAD THERE, THREE LOTS, YOU WOULD NEED ONE MORE TWO TO BE SHORT OF THE MINIMUM. I WENT AHEAD AND LOOKED AT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF ONLY SEVEN LOTS WERE PROPOSED. IT WOULD FALL UNDER THE MINIMUM DENSITY OF THE GENERAL PLAN. IT WOULD FALL UNDER THE 3.8. THIS IS THE PROPOSED SITE PLAN TO THE LOTS ON THE LOWER RIGHT. THE LOT ON THE TOP LEFT IS ONE OF THE LOTS THAT HAS THE LOT DEPTH THE IS INCONSISTENT AND DOES NOT COME UP TO THE MINIMUM SIZE. THE TRIANGULAR SIZE IS THE ONE WITH THE IRREGULAR SHAPE. QUICK ANALYSIS, THE PROJECT DOES FALL WITHIN THE ALLOWABLE DENSITY AND COMPLIES WITH THE REGULATIONS ASIDE FROM THE REQUESTED VARIANCE. THE SITE IS ACCESSIBLE BY PEDESTRIAN AND VEHICLES. THE USES SIMILAR TO THOSE AROUND HER. SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL PROJECT. THE VARIANCE WOULD ALLOW IT TO MEET THE GENERAL PLAN DENSITY BY ALLOWING A LOTS TO BE CONSTRUCTED. NOW ON TO THE TRAFFIC CALMING. THIS IS MORE OF A SUMMARY OF WHAT WAS DISCUSSED, AND WHAT CAME OUT OF THE LAST PUBLIC HEARING. AS I STATED, TRAFFIC CALMING INACTIVITY OF THE PROJECT, THE MAIN POINTS OF DISCUSSION. THE APPLICANT DID SUBMIT TRAFFIC CALMING MEASURES EXHIBIT, WHICH IS AN ATTACHMENT TO THE STAFF REPORT. THE TRAFFIC CALMING MEASURES ARE INTENDED TO INCREASE VEHICLE AND PEDESTRIAN STATE FEE WHILE REDUCING AND PACK TO CURRENT SETTING. A LOT OF THE COMMENTS RECEIVED WERE THAT THIS ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC WAS CHANGING THE OVERALL SETTING OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO THOSE WHO HAVE LIVED THERE FOR SOME TIME. OVER ON THE LEFT IS JUST A BLOWUP OF THE LEGEND ON THE RIGHT. I WILL GO THROUGH SOME SLIDES HERE. A COUPLE MORE SLIDES, AND WE WILL SHOW THESE AND MORE CLOSE-UP DETAIL. JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA, THESE SHOW TRAFFIC CALMING MEASURES STARTING ON WILDCAT WAY. FUCHSIA WAY. WHERE THERE IS CONNECT. EVEN THE SPEED BUMP DOWN ON FUCHSIA WAY. ON WEST RUBY STREET WHERE IT CONNECTS TO THE PROJECT. THIS IS THE NORTHWEST CORNER AT WILDCAT WAY AND FUCHSIA WAY. THE PROPOSAL HERE WAS FOR A RAISED INTERSECTIONS AND CROSSWALKS. THE POTENTIAL FOR THREE STOP SIGNS. THOSE ARE INDICATED BY THE BOX NUMBER NINE. JUST TO KNOW THE STOP SIGNS WOULD STILL BE SUBJECT TO THE STOP WARRANT. WE WOULD NOT CONDITIONING JUST INSTALL THE STOP SIGN. IT'S CONDITION TO DO WAS STOP WARRANT FOR STOP SIGNS. THIS IS A TRAFFIC CALMING CITY DETAIL ON FUCHSIA WAY. A SPEEDBUMP LOCATED OFF SITE. ACTUALLY A LITTLE SOUTH OF THE PROJECT. ON FUCHSIA WAY, IT WOULD ALSO INCLUDE SIGNAGE FOR WARNING DRIVERS OF THE SPEEDBUMP THAT IS ABOUT TO COME UP. THIS IS WEST RUBY STREET. THIS WOULD HAVE SIGNAGE IN ADDITION TO THE FIRST IMAGE I SHOWED. SIGNAGE FOR THE SLOW DOWN SIGNAGE. YOU SEE THEIR NUMBER FIVE. SOME OF THOSE SIGNAGE. ALSO THE NUMBER ONE, WHICH IS THE CURVE AHEAD. SOME CONCERNED AT THE PREVIOUS HEARING WAS IT'S A PRETTY SHARP CURVE THERE. SOME BLIND SPOTS WITH SOME OF THE DRIVEWAYS AND SUCH. SIGNAGE WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE. IN RELATION TO THAT, IT'S NOT IN THIS PRESENTATION, BUT THEY ALSO, AS PART OF THEIR PLAN ARE PROPOSED TO FLIP THE DRIVEWAY ON FIVE TO PUT IT FURTHER AWAY. THIS IS THE ENTIRETY OF THAT. WILDCAT WAY AND FUCHSIA WAY IS WHERE THE TRAFFIC CALMING MEASURES ARE DONE. OVERALL, IN SUPPORT OF THE OVERALL COMMUNITY BENEFIT OF HAVING THE CONNECTIVITY BETWEEN THE TWO ROADS, WHICH WAS EXPLAINED IN THE SELF-REPORT. STAFF DOES RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE PROJECT WITH THE ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS OF THE APPROVAL THAT HAVE BEEN ADDED SINCE WE ANALYZE THE TRAFFIC CALMING MEASURES. THAT INCLUDES A CONDITION OF APPROVAL NUMBER 19. UNDER SUBDIVISION DESIGN AND PLANNING CONDITION. PLANNING DIVISION CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL. THAT CONCLUDES THE TRAFFIC CALMING MEASURES SHOWN ON THE EXHIBIT. IN ADDITION TO THE PREVIOUS IMPROVEMENTS. THAT INCLUDES A STOP WARRANT AND STUDIES AND OVER ALL TRAFFIC CALMING MEASURES. STAFF HAS ADDED THE CONDITION. IT'S IN THE PROPOSED RESOLUTION. WITH THAT, STAFF DOES RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE PROJECT. WE HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE APPLICANT. THEY HAVE INDICATED TO STAFF THEY ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH ALL OF THE PROPOSED CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL. THEY HAVE RECEIVED CONFIRMATION FROM THAT. THEY ARE ALSO IN AGREEMENT OF THE PROPOSED CONDITIONS. THAT CONCLUDES MY STAFF REPORT. I'M HAPPY TO INCLUDE ANY QUESTIONS. >> WE ARE GOING TO FOLLOW THE SAME FORMAT. AT THIS POINT, IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS FROM STAFF, WE WILL OPEN IT UP TO NUMBERS OF PUBLIC THEN IF THEY WISH TO COMMENT ON THE ITEM. THEN WE WILL COME BACK FOR DELIBERATIONS. ANY QUESTIONS? QUESTIONS ONLY AT THIS TIME. >> SHEET SIX OF THE APPLICANT'S PLANS, AND I WILL BE SEEING HOW MUCH I APPRECIATE WHAT IS GOING ON DURING DELIBERATIONS. I AM CONFUSED . THERE IS A LAY IN ON LINE 6, FIVE AND FOUR, IT LOOKS LIKE A DRIVEWAY, OR SOME SORT OF WALKWAY THAT IS AROUND IT. IT COMES UP RIGHT ALONG WEST RUBY. WHERE IT MAKES ATTORNEY GOES NORTH. THEN IT TURNS EAST. IS THAT THE DRIVEWAY? THE NEW DRIVEWAY? >> ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ON LOT FIVE? >> A RON MOTT FIVE, AND LOT 4 TOO. THERE'S ANOTHER TYPE . I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS IN THE DRAWING. SOME SORT OF PAVEMENT. IS THERE A DRAWING? >> THIS LOT, SHEET SIX, LOT FIVE , THAT DRIVEWAY WILL BE FLIPPED OVER. IT WILL NOT BE AS INDICATED ON THESE PLANS. >> I WILL BE HONEST WITH YOU, TRYING TO LOOK AT THE SMALL PLAN RIGHT NOW IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME. WHICH LINE AGAIN? I APOLOGIZE. I WAS PLAYING UP THE PLAN. >> IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FLIPPING THE DRIVEWAY, THAT WAS THE CONCERN ON THE WESTSIDE. I'M TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT. THERE'S A THIN LINE ON THE INSIDE OF FIVE. SOME OF THE THIN LINE ON THE EAST SIDE OF FOUR, WHICH LOOKS LIKE IT WOULD BE A SHARED DRIVEWAY. IF YOU FLIPPED THE THIN LINE OVER ON THE WEST SIDE OF FIVE AND PUT IT TOGETHER. IF THAT'S THE DRIVEWAY, THAT ANSWERS A LOT OF QUESTIONS. WHERE'S THE DRIVEWAY IN RELATION TO THE ROAD. IS THERE ENOUGH TIME TO SEEP OR FOR BOTH DRIVER AND DRIVER COMING OUT OF THE DRIVEWAY. IF THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, THAT FLIPS OVER THE THIN LINE ALONG THE SIDE FLIPS OVER TO THE WESTSIDE, IT BECOMES A DRIVEWAY. I GET THAT. >> YEAH, THAT WOULD BE THE IDEA. THE DRIVEWAY ON FIVE, CURRENTLY ADJACENT TO POLICE PARKING LOT. IT WOULD EVENTUALLY MOVE FURTHER TO THE WEST. MAY NOT BE ABLE TO GO ALL THE WAY TO THE WEST BECAUSE OF THE LOT DEPTH. THE IDEA WOULD BE TO PLAN OUT AS FAR OVER TO THE WEST AS POSSIBLE, WHILE ALLOWING FOR A FIVE FOOT SETBACK ON THAT SIDE OF THE HOME. THERE'S A LINE. THERE'S A LINE BETWEEN THE TWO. THE DRIVEWAY BETWEEN FOUR, AS SHOWN HERE, IT'S LOCATED PHYSICALLY OVER ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE LOT. >> THANK YOU. >> MISS WILLIAMS. >> ON THIS -- THIS IS THE PERFECT ONE TO BE ON -- ARE THESE CROSSWALKS GOING TO HAVE ANY LIGHTS? I CANNOT TELL . ARE THEY GOING TO BE LIT AT ALL? I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF QUESTIONS. WITH THE CURSE. ARE DRIVERS GOING TO HAVE ANY WARNING, ARE THEY GOING TO COME UP TO THOSE AND MAYBE SEE A PEDESTRIAN THERE? >> AS PROPOSED, THEY ARE NOT PROPOSED TO HAVE ANY OF THE LIGHTS ALONG THE ROADWAY AS PROPOSED. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WILL BE LOOKED AT WHEN ENGINEERING GETS DEEPER INTO THE TRAFFIC CALMING ANALYSIS. THERE IS SIGNAGE ON THE ROAD TO WARN PEOPLE OF PEDESTRIANS. >> I THINK WHERE THOSE ARE IN PARTICULAR, I FEEL SOME WARNING WOULD BE BETTER. >> YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ONES ON THE WEST END? >> CORRECT. ALSO, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S APPROPRIATE NOW, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO MAYBE HERE -- AT FIRST I THINK WE GLOSSED OVER THE BENEFIT OF THE POLICE STATION, HAVING ACCESS THIS WAY. I THINK IN LIGHT OF THE RECENT INCIDENT THAT JUST HAPPENED AT VINTAGE PARKWAY, THE POLICE WERE ABLE TO BE THERE AND HOW LONG? I THINK IT WAS A MINUTE. TWO MINUTES. IF THAT WERE TO HAPPEN AT OAKLEY ELEMENTARY, AS OUR CURRENT DESIGN IS, HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE YOU TO GET TO OAKLEY ELEMENTARY FROM YOUR LOT? >> I BELIEVE THE BUILDING IN THE PARKING LOT THROUGH THE GATE , WE CAN BE TO THE ELEMENTARY WITHIN JUST A COUPLE OF MINUTES. IT'S A MUCH BETTER DESIGN THAN WE HAD BEFORE. >> HOW LONG CURRENTLY WOULD IT TAKE TO GET TO OAKLEY ELEMENTARY IF YOU HAD TO LEAVE THIS? >> CURRENTLY WE HAVE A REAR GATE. >> YOU CAN STILL GO THROUGH IT. >> YEAH, THAT CAME WITH THIS. >> WE WILL HAVE DUAL AXIS AT TIMES. IT HAS REDUCED OUR RESPONSE TIME AND A PART OF THE CITY. >> THANK YOU. ANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WISHING TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? I HAVE A WRITTEN COMMENT, MR. LEARY. DID YOU WISH TO SPEAK ALSO? IT IS UP TO YOU. WE HAVE IT. THE COUNCIL HAS READ IT. FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE LISTENING AND ATTENDING PUBLIC. >> I WILL BE BRIEF. >> MY NAME IS DAN LARRY. THANK YOU, EVERYBODY. IT LOOKS BETTER. YEAH. JUST A QUICK -- LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, JUST ENGLISH COUNCILMEMBERS. SOME COUNCIL MEMBERS CONCERNS THE SAFETY AND INCLUSION OF THE ROAD EXTENSION WILL ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE AN ATTORNEY ACTIVE WAY OUT. FEELS LIKE CONTINUED PURSUIT OF THE PROPOSAL MAKES US WONDER IF THERE'S ANY UNDISCLOSED RATIONAL THE RESIDENTS MAY NOT KNOW. I ASK YOU TO TAKE A MOMENT TO IMAGINE THIS HAPPENING IN FRONT OF YOUR HOME. IMAGINE YOUR CHILD, COULD POTENTIALLY BE STRUCK BY A CAR. WE IMPLORE YOU , TAMMY, PLEASE, TO DENY THE PROPOSAL AND IT CURRENT FOAM . SAVE OUR BELOVED OAKTREE IN THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY , AND UPHOLD THE VALUES IT WAS BUILT ON. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. >> THANK YOU. >> ANY OTHER PEOPLE WISHING TO SPEAK? WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC, TO MOVE ON TO DELIBERATIONS. I JUST WANT TO LEAD OFF BY EXPRESSION OF APPRECIATION, MR. LEARY. WE OFTEN HAVE PEOPLE AGAINST PROJECTS, BUT WE VERY SELDOM HAVE PEOPLE PRESENTING WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS A BETTER PLAN. MR. LEARY DID THAT IN THIS CASE. HE SUBMITTED WRITTEN DRAWINGS AND DOWNLOADED STUFF. EMAILED IT TO THE WHOLE COUNSEL. VERY APPRECIATED NOT TO JUST BE CONFRONTED WITH NEGATIVITY, BUT HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE PLAN. THANK YOU. ANY DELIBERATIONS? I WILL LOOK FOR MOTION. >> MR. FULLER. >> THANK YOU TO THE STAFF. MR. LEARY, I'M GLAD THIS PROJECT CAME TOGETHER. PUTTING THE DRIVEWAYS AROUND THAT TYPE OF THING IN THE INTERSECTION. THANK YOU. WITH THAT I WILL MOVE THE ITEM. >> OKAY. >> WITH THE FLIP OF THE DRIVEWAY. >> WITH THE STATED CONDITIONS. >> RIGHT. >> OKAY. >> SECOND. >> WE HAVE A FIRST AND SECOND. IN A DISCUSSION BEFORE CALLED ABOUT? OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? OPPOSED? ABSTENTION? >> SORRY IT WAS A AYE. >> UNANIMOUS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR STAFF AND APPLICANT FOR THE WORK IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION. ON TO THE REGULAR CALENDAR. 5.1, WHICH IS PROPOSAL TO ADOPT A RESOLUTION TO APPROPRIATE SOME OF OUR ARPA FUNDS FOR POLICE RECRUITMENT . >> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. TONIGHT WE ARE IN FRONT OF YOU ABOUT PLEASE RECRUITMENT AND INCENTIVES AND MARKETING FOR POLICE DEPARTMENT. BEFORE I DIG IN THERE GOING TO GIVE YOU A QUICK OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND WHAT WE ARE CURRENTLY FACING WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT. WE HAVE SIX VACANT OFFICER POSITIONS THAT WE ARE EVERYDAY TRYING TO FILL. WE HAVE A VACANT SERGEANT POSITION, WHICH ESSENTIALLY NEEDS TO SEVEN VACANT OFFICERS. WE CURRENTLY HAVE SEVEN OUT ON SOME SORT OF INJURY OR EXTENDED LEAVE. TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE FOR US TO TRY AND FIGURE OUT HOW WE GET PEOPLE TO APPLY FOR THE CITY OF OAKLEY. OUR CURRENT STATUS OF APPLICANTS, QUALIFIED EXPERIENCED OFFICERS ARE HARD TO FIND RIGHT NOW. WE ARE NOT ALONE. IT'S HAPPENING IN EVERY CITY. WE ARE DOING EVERYTHING IN OUR POWER TO ENTICE THEM TO WANT TO BE PART OF THE CITY OF OAKLEY FAMILY? MOST OF THE APPLICANTS HAVE NOT MET THE MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS. WE, UNLIKE OTHER DEPARTMENTS THAT SURROUND US DO NOT CURRENTLY SPONSOR ACADEMY RECRUITS. THEY MUST PAST THE ACADEMY AND HAVE A CERTIFICATE BEFORE THEY CAN APPLY. WE HOPE TO BE ABLE TO EXPERIMENT IN THE FUTURE, AS WE CONTINUE TO GROW. WE ARE JUST NOT QUITE THERE YET. MANY OF OUR APPLICANTS ARE LOOKING FOR PLACES TO GO, BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN UNSUCCESSFUL IN OTHER DEPARTMENTS. THIS IS WHERE WE HAVE TRIED TO STAY VERY TRUE TO WHO OAKLEY IS, AND TO BE VERY, VERY SELECTIVE IN WHO WE ARE CHOOSING. SOMETIMES THAT IS REALLY HARD. THOSE ARE THE ONLY APPLICATIONS COMING THROUGH THE KEY RIGHT NOW. WE ARE CONTINUING TO STAY SELECTIVE. WE ARE ONLY PUTTING THROUGH THOSE THAT HAVE PRIOR EXPERIENCE , ARE GOOD PEOPLE WHO ARE QUALIFIED, AND ACTUALLY MEET THE EXPECTATIONS WE EXPECT OF OUR OAKLEY OFFICERS. WITH THAT, I WILL GIVE YOU A QUICK SCENARIO OF HOW WE DO OUR SELECTION PROCESS. [ CAPTIONERS TRANSITIONING ] IT'S VERY EXTENSIVE. THEN THEY GO THROUGH FULL MEDICAL TESTING AND PSYCHOLOGICAL TESTING. THEY MUST ALL BE PASSED TO BE HIRED HERE AT THE CITY OF OAKLEY. NEW POTENTIAL CANDIDATES ARE OUR TOP PRIORITY. IT'S A COMPLETE GROUP EFFORT BETWEEN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, CITY MANAGEMENT, HR. THE MOMENT AN APPLICATION IS IN THE QUEUE, WE'RE CALLING THEM SOMETIMES WITHIN HOURS OF THEM SUBMITTING THE APPLICATION, AND USUALLY GET THEM IN FOR INTERVIEWS WITHIN TWO DAYS. IF THAT MEANS WE COME IN ON FRIDAYS OFF, WE'RE HERE. IF WE CHANGE APPOINTMENTS, WE'RE HERE. IT'S OUR TOP PRIORITY. WE HAVE A PRETTY GOOD TRACK RECORD GOING HERE FOR THE PAST FOUR OR FIVE CANDIDATES. FROM OUR INTERVIEW DATE TO START DATE, WE'RE HIRING THEM IN UNDER 60 DAYS. TO GET THROUGH ALL THE TESTING, AS WELL AS THEM PROVIDING A TWO-WEEK NOTICE TO THEIR CURRENT EMPLOYER, IT'S SIGNIFICANT. OUR LAST EMPLOYEE WAS HIRED SEPTEMBER 29th, AND THE TIME PERIOD WAS 55 DAYS. THESE APPLICANTS ARE COMMITTED, THEY'RE PUTTING IN THE TIME BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A 25-PAGE PERSONAL HISTORY THAT THEY HAVE TO FILL OUT. YOU KNOW, I'M HOUNDING THEM EVERY DAY FROM THE SECOND OF THE INTERVIEW IS IT READY, IS IT READY, IS IT READY. WITH THAT WE'LL GO INTO KIND OF WHERE WE ARE. SO WE'RE LOOKING TO DO SOME ADDITIONAL ADVERTISING. WE RECENTLY DID A COUPLE OF BILLBOARDS IN THE SAN JOAQUIN VALLEY. WE HAVE A COUPLE OF BILLBOARDS THERE. OUR OFFICERS MAKE SIGNIFICANTLY MORE THAN THERE. WE HAVE AN AD IN THE POLICE MAGAZINE. BUT THE REALITY IS ADVERTISING IS EXTENSIVE. AND WE HAVE A GREAT BENEFIT PACKAGE AND SUPPORT FROM OUR CITY, OUR CITIZENS, OUR COUNCIL, STAFF. ALL ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT. WE HAVE TO GET OUR STORY OUT THERE. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO. GET OUR STORY INTO THE RIGHT HANDS OF THE RIGHT PEOPLE. WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE INCENTIVES. WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR A LONG TIME. RESOURCES HAVE BEEN SCARCE, SO WE ARE HERE TONIGHT LOOKING TO DO THAT. SOME OF THE IDEAS, A ONE-TIME HIRING INCENTIVE TO NEW EMPLOYEES UP TO $10,000 PER APPLICANT DEPENDING ON THEIR EXPERIENCE. WE WOULD ENSURE THOSE APPLICANTS ARE HERE AND GOING TO PASS OUR FIELD TRAINING AS WELL AS OUR PROBATION, SO THEY DON'T GET 100% UP FRONT. HALF WHEN THEY COMPLETE THEIR FIELD TRAINING, WHICH IS BETWEEN 7 AND 12 WEEKS DEPENDING ON THE OFFICER, AND HALF WHEN THEY ACTUALLY CLEAR PROBATION WHICH IS AFTER A YEAR OF EMPLOYMENT WITH US. IN ADDITION WE LOOK TO PROVIDE A RECRUITMENT INCENTIVE TO OUR CURRENT OFFICERS. NOBODY KNOWS BETTER THAN OUR CURRENT OFFICERS WHAT OUR DEPARTMENT ACTUALLY NEEDS. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THEY'LL WORK WITH DAY IN AND DAY OUT AND TRUST. $2,500 PER RECRUITMENT. THAT ACTUALLY COMPLETES THE FTO PROGRAM WITH THE CITY. AND THEN, UM, A CONTRACT PAY OUT. WHAT WE'RE FINDING IS MANY APPLICANTS AREN'T ABLE TO LEAVE THEIR CURRENT PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT BECAUSE THAT EMPLOYER PUT THEM THROUGH THE ACADEMY, AND THEY'RE OBLIGATED BY A CONTRACT TO STAY FOR SO MANY YEARS BECAUSE OF THAT. SO THEY CAN ABSOLUTELY OPT OUT AND CHOOSE TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE, BUT WITH THAT COMES A BILL FOR THEIR ACADEMY TRAINING. OUR PROPOSAL IS IF THEY'RE LEAVING A PREVIOUS CITY WITH A BILL FOR ACADEMY TRAINING, THE CITY OF OAKLEY WOULD PAY FOR THAT TO GET THEM TO COME SOONER RATHER THAN WAITING TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE YEARS DEPENDING ON WHAT THAT CONTRACT LOOKS LIKE. THEN OUR LAST, UM, PART, AS I MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET THIS IN FRONT OF YOU FOR QUITE SOME TIME. WE HAVE HAD SEVEN OFFICERS CHOOSE OAKLEY IN THE LAST YEAR, AND WE WERE LOOKING FOR A FAIR WAY TO ROLL THIS OUT AND GET THIS IN FRONT OF YOU. WE WENT BACK TO WHEN ARPA FUNDING WAS ORIGINALLY PROVIDED WHICH WAS JULY OF 2021, AND WE LOOK TO BE ABLE TO INCENTIVIZE THOSE THAT DID CHOOSE OAKLEY, SOME JUST A SHORT THREE WEEKS AGO. AND WITH THAT, UM, STAFF RECOMMENDS WE APPROPRIATE $250,000 FROM ARPA FUNDS FOR POLICE RECRUITMENT, INCLUDING MARKETING. APPROVE THE ESTABLISHED PERIMETERS IN THE STAFF REPORT WE JUST WENT THROUGH TO INCENTIVIZE POTENTIAL CANDIDATES, AND ALSO APPROVE RETRO PAY TO THE OFFICERS HIRED BETWEEN JULY 1st AND CURRENTLY OCTOBER. WITH THAT, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. >> GREAT. WE DO HAVE A PUBLIC SPEAKER CARD. DO YOU GUYS WANT TO HEAR THAT FIRST? >> SURE. >> ALL RIGHT. MR. HUGH HENDERSON? >> GOOD EVENING MAYOR AND COUNCIL. YOU JUST GOT A BEAUTIFUL PRESENTATION ABOUT HOW HARD YOUR HR DEPARTMENT AND CHIEF IS WORKING. I'M HERE JUST TO SUPPORT THAT YOU MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS. ANYTHING THEY CAN ADD TO ENHANCE THIS JOB MARKET RIGHT NOW TO CREATE MORE POLICE OFFICERS FOR THE CITY. >> THANK YOU. ANY OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC? >> ALL RIGHT, QUESTIONS, DELIBERATIONS? IT'S OPEN FLOOR. MR. FULLER? >> YES, THANK YOU. TWO QUESTIONS. NUMBER ONE, THE EASIEST ONE, IS THERE A PAY BACK? IN OTHER WORDS, YES, I REALLY WANT TO SEE THIS PUT OUT. I REALLY DON'T WANT TO SEE SOMEONE SHOW UP FOR 12 MONTHS AND COLLECT THEIR MONEY AND LEAVE IN 18 MONTHS. DO WE HAVE AN ARRANGEMENT FOR LENGTH OF TIME WE EXPECT THEM TO SERVE AFTER RECEIVING IT? >> THE PLAN WOULD BE THEY WOULD RECEIVE HALF AFTER THEY COMPLETE FIELD TRAINING, AND THE OTHER HALF AFTER THEY COMPLETE THEIR 12 MONTH PROBATION. SO THERE WOULD NOT BE CURRENTLY ESTABLISHED A PAY BACK IF THEY CHOSE TO LEAVE AFTER THE ONE YEAR. >> OKAY, THAT'S A LITTLE TROUBLING, BUT I WON'T SAY NO. BUT THE OTHER THING IS, JUST MY EXPERIENCE IN THE PAST IS I EXPECT TO SEE, WE'LL START SEEING A SALARY CREEP IN TERMS OF POLICE OFFICERS BECAUSE WE'RE COMPETING WITH OTHER CITIES, AND WE'RE GIVING BONUSES, BUT EVENTUALLY WE'LL HAVE TO COMPETE WITH SALARY? WHEN DO YOU EXPECT THAT TO HAPPEN? >> SO WE HAVE A FIVE-YEAR CONTRACT CURRENTLY WITH THE POA. IF YOU REMEMBER BACK IN JUNE, WE CHANGED TO THE STEP SYSTEM. WE WENT AWAY FROM THE MERIT PAY AND MOVED TO THE STEP SYSTEM. SO, IN ADDITION TO A 5% STEP INCREASES THEY'RE CURRENTLY RECEIVING, WE HAVE ESTABLISHED A 3% COST OF LIVING INCREASE THAT ALSO HAPPENS IN YEARS THREE, FOUR, AND FIVE OF THE CONTRACT. SO THAT MODEL, WE DID A SALARY STUDY WHEN MAKING THAT MODEL, AND THAT PUT OAKLEY AT THE TOP OF THE SALARY AND COMPENSATION ASIDE FROM SAN RAMONE. SAN RAMONE WAS STILL AHEAD OF US. BUT IT PUT US IN FRONT OF ALL THE OTHER SEVEN COMPARABLE CITIES. SO UNLESS OTHER CITIES ARE GOING BACK TO THE TABLE BEFORE THAT FIVE YEARS, I INTEND THAT WILL REMAIN UNLESS THEY MAKE ANY INCREASES, UM, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CONTRACT. >> THANK YOU. >> MS. WILLIAMS? >> YOU GUYS MENTIONED THE OTHER AGENCIES POTENTIALLY PAY FOR THE ACADEMY. HOW MUCH DOES SOMETHING LIKE THAT, HOW MUCH DOES THAT COST TO DO? >> SO I DON'T HAVE EXACT NUMBERS. WE ARE LOOKING INTO THAT. MY UNDERSTANDING IS ACADEMY IS BETWEEN 5,000 TO 8,000ISH. BUT THE BIGGEST EXPENSE OF THAT IS MOST ARE ACTUALLY HIRING THAT OFFICER AS AN EMPLOYEE. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE ACADEMY THAT'S COSTLY. IT'S PAYING THEM FOR SIX MONTHS SALARY AND BENEFITS, AND ALL YOU GET OUT OF THAT IS FOR THEM TO GO TO TRAINING. AND WE HAVE NO GUARANTEES, RIGHT? SO ONCE WE PUT AN OFFICER IN THAT TRAINING, WE HAVE NO GUARANTEES THEY'LL COMPLETE THAT TRAINING. SO THE LARGEST EXPENSE IS HIRING THEM. >> OKAY, GREAT. SO IN THEORY, LIKE, THIS WOULD GET US A BIGGER BANG FOR OUR BUCK BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE DID THE EFFORT TO PUT THEM THROUGH IT. >> UNFORTUNATELY, YES. >> IT'S A SMART WAY TO DO IT WITH A BUDGET. OKAY, MAKES SENSE. THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO KNOW. >> MS. HIGGINS? >> I SAY LET'S DO IT. >> MR. MEADOWS? >> DO WE HAVE STATS ON HOW LONG AN OFFICER TYPICALLY STAYS WITH A DEPARTMENT? >> I DON'T. I DON'T HAVE THOSE STATES WITH ME. I CAN ABSOLUTELY GET THEM. >> FOR SUCH A YOUNG DEPARTMENT -- >> WE ARE -- >> WELL, I'M NOT LOOKING FOR HERE, BUT ACROSS THE INDUSTRY. >> OH. STATEWIDE? NATIONWIDE? >> STATEWIDE. BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE NUMBERS, THAT'S FINE. >> I DON'T. >> COUPLE OF THINGS, I'VE BEEN A POLICE OFFICER AND A POLICE SERGEANT FOR 30 YEARS WORKING IN A NEIGHBORING CITY. I'VE SEEN THESE CHALLENGES FIRSTHAND. POLICE OFFICERS FEEL LIKE THEY'VE HAD WAR DECLARED AGAINST THEM, AND MANY ARE CHOOSING TO NOT DO IT ANYMORE. SO I WOULD SAY ALMOST EVERY SINGLE POLICE DEPARTMENT IN THE NATION IS STRUGGLING WITH THIS. THIS ISN'T UNIQUE TO OAKLEY. THEY'RE ALL COMING UP WITH CREATIVE IDEAS FOR ATTRACTING QUALIFIED APPLICANTS. SO WE NEED TO ALSO. SOME ARE ALSO LOWERING STANDARDS IN ORDER TO WIDEN THE POOL OF POTENTIAL. OUR NEIGHBORS OVER IN ALAMEDA COUNTY HAD A BIG PROBLEM WITH THAT. I KNOW THIS IS SPUR OF THE MOMENT, CHIEF, BUT CAN YOU TALK ABOUT OUR MINIMUM HIRING STANDARDS AND STEPS WE'RE TAKING TO AVOID THE PROBLEM ALAMEDA COUNTY HAD? >> ABSOLUTELY, I'M HAPPY TO DO SO. LIKE YOURSELF I STARTED IN 1990. I WENT TO WORK, MY FIRST AGENCY WAS THE CONTRA COSTA COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE, AND I REMEMBER REPORTING TO TEST FOR MY EMPLOYMENT FOR THE COUNTY. A LADY BY THE NAME OF CONNIE AMES SAID 1 OUT OF 100 OF YOU WILL MAKE IT TO THE COUNTY. WELL, THERE WERE 404 PEOPLE THERE, AND I BRACED MY FEET TO SCOOT MY CHAIR BACK AND WALK OUT BECAUSE I THOUGHT I HAD NO CHANCE. I WAS ONE OF FOUR THAT MADE IT TO THE ACADEMY. I SAY THAT TO SHOW HOW POPULAR THE JOB WAS IN 1990 AND SHOW HOW FAR WE'VE FALLEN. AGENCIES DO HAVE TO MAKE MODIFICATIONS FOR WHO THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE AND WHAT THEIR STANDARDS ARE. I CAN FIRMLY TELL YOU THAT WE HAVE NOT CHANGED OUR STANDARDS AT ALL. THIS AGENCY HAS GONE THROUGH FOUR CHIEFS. I HAVE NOT TAKEN THE STANCE THAT WE'RE GOING TO LOWER OUR STANDARDS TO GAIN BODIES. I ONLY WANT THE BEST. AND THAT'S JUST A FACT. >> THAT'S WHAT I, AND I BELIEVE THE WHOLE COUNCIL WANT TOO. THANK YOU. >> I MOVE APPROVAL OF ITEM 5.1, RESOLUTION TO APPROPRIATE ARPA FUNDS. >> I'LL SECOND. >> GREAT. ALL IN FAVOR? OPPOSED NONE? IT'S UNANIMOUS. GOOD LUCK BRINGING US THE GREAT CANDIDATES. >>> NEXT UP IS REPORTS. CITY MANAGER. YOU HAVE A COUPLE ITEMS? >> YEAH, GOOD EVENING, MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL. MY REPORT IS REAL SHORT ON A, I JUST WANTED TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND THANK THE RECREATION TEAM ALONG WITH EVERYONE ELSE THAT HELPED MAKE THE HARVEST FESTIVAL HAPPEN THIS WEEK. IT'S A GREAT EVENT FOR THE CITY, ANOTHER GREAT EVENT WE'VE HAD THIS PAST SUMMER AND FALL. THE RECREATION TEAM IS NOT DONE. THERE ARE MORE EVENTS TO COME TO FINISH OUT THE YEAR. SO J WANTED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEM PUBLICLY FOR THAT. WE DO HAVE TWO ITEMS TO TAKE CARE OF UNDER MY REPORT. THE FIRST IS AT THE LAST CITY COUNCIL MEETING, COUNCIL MEMBER FULLER ASKED FOR INFORMATION ABOUT THE EMERSON RANCH COMMERCIAL CENTER APPROVALS. WE PREPARED A MEMO THAT WAS ATTACHED TO THE AGENDA. THAT MEMO SUMMARIZES OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE APPROVALS AND ANYTHING ELSE THAT WOULD HAPPEN SUBSEQUENT ON THE SITE. IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS, STAFF IS AVAILABLE TO ANSWER THOSE REGARDING THAT SPECIFIC ITEM. >> MR. FULLER, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? >> WELL, A STATEMENT. JUST BE AWARE THAT I HAVE REQUESTED THE TAPE FROM THE ONE, AND THE MINUTES AS I REMEMBER, YES, WE APPROVED A LOT OF THINGS, BUT I REMEMBER THE BEER CAVE BECAUSE THE BEER CAVE WERE CATERING TO PEOPLE GOING DOWN THE RIVER. IT WAS A BIG BEER CAVE. I REMEMBER, WHAT I REMEMBER, AND I'LL LOOK IT UP, WAS YES, THERE WILL BE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WITH THE ALCOHOL PERMIT WITH THE SALES. I REMEMBER THE RESTAURANT, EVEN IF IT WAS A DRIVE THRU, WE DISCUSS GETTING THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT SO WE COULD DIRECT THE TRAFFIC FOR WHAT WOULD BE THERE SO THAT WE WOULDN'T HAVE LIKE A BURGER KING SITUATION OVER THERE. >> AND THE SECOND ITEM WE'LL HAND OFF TO THE CITY ATTORNEY. THIS IS A FOLLOW UP TO ANOTHER ITEM THAT WAS FIRST BROUGHT UP BY COUNCIL MEMBER FULLER. I BELIEVE MAYOR POPE ALSO SECONDED THE A TEMPERATURE. >> SURE, I PROVIDED A BRIEF MEMO AND I DID SOMETHING I DON'T USUALLY DO, WHICH IS ATTACH JUDICIAL OPINIONS TO MY MEMO. ULTIMATELY THAT'S MY JOB. YOU EXPECT ME TO NOT JUST HAND YOU COURT DECISIONS. YOU EXPECT ME TO INTERPRET THOSE. WHICH I DID. BUT I PUT THOSE IN THERE JUST IN CASE THERE ARE ANY CONCERNS SOMEHOW I MISSED ANYTHING. BECAUSE I THINK IF YOU EVEN CASUALLY LOOK AT THE DECISIONS, YOU WILL SAY HOW EMPHATIC THE COURTS WERE IN SAYING THAT THE TYPE OF POLICY THAT YOU'VE ASKED ME TO RESEARCH IS REALLY JUST BLATANTLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL, AND WE CAN'T DO IT. SO I REALLY DON'T HAVE MUCH MORE TO SAY THAN THAT OTHER THAN, UM, JUST TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S MUCH MORE MODEST THESE DAYS. THESE DECISIONS WERE DECIDED IN THE 90s. AT THAT TIME I CAN SEE HOW PERHAPS LAWYERS FOR PUBLIC AGENCIES MIGHT HAVE THOUGHT THEY HAD A CHANCE. YOU KNOW, FIRST AMENDMENT LAW HAS, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS AN AMPLE AMOUNT OF FIRST AMENDMENT CASE LAW, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, AT THAT TIME, BUT IT'S GROWN CONSIDERABLY. FIRST AMENDMENT CASE LAW HAS GROWN TOWARD A MORE ABSOLUTIST AND LIBERTARIAN POSITION, BY THAT MEANING THE COURTS, EVEN A CONSERVATIVE COURT, HAS SHOWN MORE PROTECTION FOR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS GOING FORWARD. THAT'S ONE TREND THAT HAS STARTEDDENED THE SORT OF LIBERAL COURT AND CONTINUED. CERTAINLY IN OTHER AREAS OF CONSTITUTIONAL LAW THAT'S BEEN GREAT DIVERGENCES, BUT IN FIRST AMENDMENT LAW IN PARTICULAR WHEN IT COMES TO FREE SPEECH, WE'VE SEEN A CONTINUAL PROGRESSION TOWARDS PROTECTING SPEECH. SO THESE ARE DECISIONS THAT CAME OUT IN THE 90s. TODAY THE COURT CASES ARE ABOUT A LOT MORE MODEST THINGS. BASED ON MY RESEARCH, THERE'S A CITY IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA THAT IS SAYING TO PUBLIC SPEAKERS THAT YOU MUST ADDRESS THE CHAIR ONLY DURING PUBLIC COMMENT. I UNDERSTAND SPEAKERS IN THIS PARTICULAR CITY SAY COUNCIL MEMBER WILLIAMS, COUNCIL MEMBER FULLER. FOR WHATEVER REASON, RIGHT OR WRONG, THAT CITY HAS SAID YOU CAN ONLY ADDRESS THE CHAIR, AND THAT'S BEING CHALLENGED AS AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL RESTRICTION ON FREE SPEECH. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S BEEN A COURT DECISION. I KNOW THERE HAVE ALSO BEEN CHALLENGES OVER DECORUM POLICIES. FAR AFIELD FROM THE TYPE OF POLICY WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE, BUT SIMPLY A POLICY OF YOU HAVE TO SHOW DECORUM, YOU HAVE TO SHOW POLITENESS OR PROFESSIONALISM OR AVOID F-BOMBS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THERE ARE CHALLENGES TO THAT. AND THE TREND IS FOR PUBLIC AGENCIES TO LOSE I KNOW AS SOMEONE WHO HAS FOR ALL OF MY TIME AS A CITY ATTORNEY BEEN THE RECIPIENT OF SOME PRETTY CRAZY AND OUTLANDISH THINGS SAID ABOUT ME, I WILL TELL YOU THAT IN THIS CHAMBERS, MY EXPERIENCE IS WE HAVE IT PRETTY TAME COMPARED TO WHAT I'VE SEEN ELSEWHERE. >> THANKS! >> WITH THAT, I WOULD SAY LOOK, I APPRECIATE COUNCIL MEMBER FULLER. WE ALL APPRECIATE YOUR DESIRE TO STAND UP FOR SATISFY, AND YOU THINK THAT'S SINCERE. I UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN DEFAMATORY OR OUTLANDISH OR CONSPIRACY THEORIES ARE STATED IN FORUMS LIKE THIS THAT THERE'S A DESIRE TO ADDRESS THAT, BUT OUR HANDS ARE TIRED. TRULY OUR HANDS ARE TIED, AND I SEE IT AS THIS IS SOMETHING I ACCEPT BY BEING IN THIS POSITION, UM, SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT BOTHERS ME. IN FACT, I WOULD PREFER THAT PEOPLE BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT THAN NOT BECAUSE I THINK MORE ROBUST SPEECH IS SOMETHING ALL OF US SHOULD WANT NOBODY WHAT SIDE WE'RE ON. I KNOW WITH OUR RANK AND FILE EMPLOYEES AND SOME OF OUR POLICE OFFICERS YOU DON'T NECESSARILY ASSUME THE SAME RISKS RISKS WE DO, BUT THE COURTS SAY OUR INTEREST DOESN'T RISE TO THAT LEVEL. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING WE CAN DO. I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THE DESIRE TO PROTECT OUR FOLKS, AND COUNCIL MEMBER FULLER, I THINK THAT'S APPRECIATED. BUT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T REALLY SEE ANY OPTIONS GOING FORWARD. BUT I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. >> WOULD A RESTRAINING ORDER BE IN ORDER? >> A RESTRAINING ORDER, SO WE HAVE OBTAINED THESE IN LIMITED SITUATIONS FOR OUR PUBLIC CLIENTS. WHAT WE WOULD OBTAIN IS CALLED A WORK PLACE RESTRAINING ORDER WHERE SOMEONE MAKES A, UM, YOU KNOW, A THREAT THAT'S DIRECTED TOWARDS THE AGENCY, BUT TO GET A RESTRAINING ORDER, YOU HAVE TO SHOW WHAT'S CALLED A COURSE OF CONDUCT. THAT'S DEFINED AS SOMETHING TRULY THREATENING THAT PUTS YOU IN FEAR OR THERE'S A TRUE THREAT OF VIOLENCE OR STALKING. SO THE BAR IS VERY HIGH. SAYING THINGS LIKE DEREK COLE IS A CLOSET ALIEN COMMUNIST FASCIST, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER, WHILE THAT MIGHT BE OFFENSIVE TOWARDS ME, STUFF LIKE THAT IS NOT, DOESN'T EVEN GET CLOSE TO THAT. IF SOMEONE WERE TO, YOU KNOW, STALK ME AND HANG OUT, YOU KNOW, IN THE PUBLIC PARKING LOT AND, YOU KNOW, DO STUFF LIKE THAT, THEN MAYBE. OR ANY OF YOU, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET INTO THAT. EVEN WHEN RESTRAINING ORDERS HAVE BEEN ISSUED, THERE ARE CASES THAT TALK ABOUT WHEN THAT'S IN FAVOR OF A GOVERNMENT AGENCY, AND THOSE COURT CASES REQUIRE THE ACCESS STILL BE GIVEN TO THE RESTRAINED PARTY. SO WE STILL HAVE TO ALLOW THAT PERSON TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT, SUBMIT APPLICATIONS, AND WE HAVE TO LET THAT PERSON COME TO PUBLIC COMMENT. THEY MAY NEED AN ESCORT FROM A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, BUT WE COULD CERTAINLY NOT EVER STOP SOMEONE FROM COMING UP TO THE PODIUM AND SPEAKING. >> MR. FULLER? >> WELL, TO START WITH QUESTIONS, THE CASE YOU MENTIONED, IF IT'S A PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION, WHAT WAS THE FINAL VERDICT ON THAT CASE? >> THE REPORTED CASE WAS THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION. SO WHEN WE LOOK AT CASE LAW, WE LOOK FOR CASES THAT ARE OFFICIALLY REPORTED. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE WAS A TRIAL. WHAT TYPICALLY HAPPENS IS THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION ENDS UP BECOMING LIKE A TRIAL OR FINAL RESOLUTION, AND WHEN A PARTY LOSES A PRELIMINARY RESOLUTION, AND ESPECIALLY WHEN IT GOES UP ON APPEAL, AND YOU GET AN AUTHORITATIVE RULING, THEY USUALLY BACK DOWN. >> I NOTICE WE DON'T HAVE ANY STATE COURT CASES. WE HAVE FEDERAL DISTRICT COURT NUMBER 9, WHICH IS OH SO CONSERVATIVE. I'M BEING FACETIOUS. BUT WE DIDN'T GET ANY STATE COURT. WHERE IS THE STATE IN RELATION TO THIS? >> THE 9th CIRCUIT CASE APPLIED THE CONSTITUTION. TYPICALLY THAT GOES TO FEDERAL COURT BECAUSE THE PARTIES THAT ARE SEEKING TO VINDICATE THEIR FEDERAL RIGHTS BELIEVE RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY THE FEDERAL COURTS MAY BE MORE PROTECTIVE OF THEIR RIGHTS. I'M SORRY TO GET INTO THE WEEDS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I'M TRYING NOT TO, BUT IN FEDERAL PROCEDURE, THERE'S A CONCEPT CALLED A FEDERAL QUESTION WHICH IS IF YOU'RE ASSERTING A VIOLATION OF A FEDERAL RIGHT, THEN YOU CAN GO TO A FEDERAL COURT. THE FEDERAL COURT HAS JURISDICTION. SO THIS WOULD BE BINDING. INTERESTING ASIDE, THE 9th CIRCUIT NOW, THE MEMBERSHIP OF THE 9th CIRCUIT IS ACTUALLY MUCH MORE EVEN CONSERVATIVE TO LIBERAL, BUT BACK WHEN IT WAS DECIDED I WOULD SAY CERTAINLY MUCH MORE LIBERAL COURT. >> THANK YOU. I'M GOING TO CONTINUE. I'LL LOOK OUTSIDE THE LEGISLATION, BUT I NEED TO EXPLAIN WHERE I COME FROM. FIRST, IT'S NOT A MATTER OF POLITICAL GAIN OR BEING THOUGHT OF AS NICE. I REALLY BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE REQUIRED TO COME TO WORK AND IN A PUBLIC SETTING OR ANY SETTING SHOULD NOT BE ENTITLED OR SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DEAL OR BE HARASSED OR ENCOUNTER A HOSTILE OR OPPRESSIVE WORK PLACE. WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO DO THAT. IT WAS ONE THING I DIDN'T SEE. WE SAW THAT, WELL, YES, FOR PEOPLE THERE NO, IT'S YES, THEIR RIGHTS AND THINGS. BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IN CALIFORNIA AND IN THE FEDERAL LAW NOW, IF YOU'RE ALLOWING A HOSTILE TOXIC, AS YOU KNOW, OPPRESSIVE WORK ENVIRONMENT, THAT IT NEEDS CORRECTION. AND WE ARE ALLOWING THAT HOSTILITY TO MANIFEST ITSELF. SO WE'RE GOING TO DISCUSS THE LAW HERE, BUT I'M GOING TO CONTINUE TO LOOK WHERE WE CAN. WHERE I COME FROM IT'S MAYBE WE NEED TO REALLY UNDERSTAND THIS AND WHAT WE CAN DO. IT'S NOT OH, NO, MY HANDS ARE TIED. DISTURBING THE PEACE? PEOPLE CAN NO LONGER JUST WALK IN AND START SHOUTING AND WALKING THROUGH CITY HALL AND CARRYING ON AND DOING WHATEVER THEY WANT, AND JUST WALKING AROUND AND WE SAY IT'S A PUBLIC BUILDING. IT'S CALLED DISTURBING THE PEACE. YOU CAN PUT THEM UNDER ARREST, AND IF YOU NEED SOMETHING, WE GET A RESTRAINING ORDER. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I ISSUED AN UNLAWFUL ASSEMBLY ORDER, DISPERSE. YES, YOU CAN GO OUT AND DEMONSTRATE. YES, YOU CAN WALK AROUND AND HOLD UP YOUR PLACARDS. NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE AN UNLAWFUL ASSEMBLY OR TOSSING ROCKS AT PEOPLE'S PORCHES. AND THE COURTS HA