City Commission Workshop

>> follow up and see if we can. everybody Okay. >> follow up and see if we can. everybody Okay. >> and >> we don't have the cheat sheet so you don't for show. You just start opening can. >> am calling the March 18th City Commission workshop meeting to order at 10:00AM sorry. Thank you. >> And the agenda item is the continued discussion of the city Commission rules of procedure. And I think I'm gonna turn it over to Ms Greig's. Thank you. Vice Mayor. >> Okay. So today we are trying to do a little bit of a wrap-up on the commission rules and procedures so we can get this kind of finalize what you looking forward and bring it officially to the commission for a vote. We will also have to the resolution. Is it the resolution or change as well with that? So we'll we'll tile that they're so first things first. I kind of want to go through this highlight everything that was changed and then we can discuss anything else that you all may have suggestions. Okay. We discuss it while you're go while going paragraph by paragraph. Well, let's do this. I will say let's go paragraph paragraph that things that we changed and what we heard from you all as a collective. And made those suggested changes. And then if you want, we can go through, come back in to say, OK, I would like to maybe suggest we change this. What do you all think? If you want to do that, it's up to you trying to make it easy and clean. So we'll start with Page 2. on the screen, too. Yes, please. Page 2 rule fi. Agenda be. And the underlying part here time get my. As a kid that. down to here. So everybody can see what we're talking about. Yeah, a change is to the order of the day approved by the commission. Everybody's good with that. >> Yeah, and I think we've been doing this. We have been doing it worked well. So because it was already in our rules procedures were doing >> So okay. But is that there next page is. All right. This is some see on Page 3. Yes, on page 3 C. And I would actually ask. >> The charter officials if that's working cause, I haven't had any problem getting my request to pull consent items in advance and you know, you can say if everybody else has been doing its time so far, it's been fine. If you guys have a problem with the let me know, I was just wondering if we shouldn't state in there somewhere that while preferred right that we give advance notice that items like we expressly stated items still can be pulled at the table like if something arises at that moment, you say, oh, gosh, I didn't know. You know, I mean, we still have the opportunity. And should that be expressly stated? But it does say that where the second paragraph and under item C it says commissioners should make every effort is that you have to do so. But sir, my question was, should be expressly stated. So that commissioners in the future know they can still pull it at the table. I think they're smart enough to be able to see that they should do some read is as is stopping you from doing our eating. It is. >> Hey, we would like for you to try to do it. But, you know, Ian is up to you all as a board. How you want read at just? I believe I do redo. is stopping you. All right. to me, it's clear enough. >> And if a commissioner doesn't get that the first time they want to pull something. They'll learn after the first meeting them. Okay. I mean, so I'm I think brings. Are we going to just add into that potentially because some of us like to use text messages. >> Some commissioners like the text if they wanted to tax or is that fall within the purview of the phone? >> I mean, think it Falls City, attorney, deferrals and Previa the fall. >> I think it does. should add facts. Ted X, well, we >> do it more generically in say. By advising the charter officials by advising the charter officials in yeah, okay. out, OK? So by advising that, I think those are back in the by slapped her every >> Exactly. Signed mental message. >> So I guess my question. >> For MS Grace is. Not having a time. Certain is that adequate? As long as it's in advance of the meeting, if let, if it's 8.59, is that still add acquittal from our last discussion about felt like there was a little bit of >> Everyone had kind of had the issue with the because things may happen on the fly. So that's why we took it out based off the conversation had at the last workshop. So, you know, there. example, yesterday, Commissioner Betty right then was like, you know, I want to pull that grant item. You know, and it's OK during the meeting during the tonight when at first love that second para that's what it should. The only problem with that would be if a commissioner wanted a presentation. >> And the city manager didn't know ahead of time in order to have staff present to make presentation. >> But, you know, like you say he wasn't as a for presentation. I think he just wanted to discuss it. So, you know, there are times when you all may just let you know. I think I do want to pull that right there. >> So I don't want to, but but I want you all into one thing. But I think Commissioner Ulrich makes a very good suggestion that maybe we had a sentence that. >> If the commissioner wants a presentation on the item that they should notify the city manager in by sometime in advance. And I don't know when you know, by by. >> You usually the city manager has somebody in the audience there to present on it. And if not, they say, can we come back to it? They call them. They come down. >> I mean, just the way. And just just as rule of thumb anytime that department director has a presence there as an agenda item, they're required to have them self and staff present in case. Somebody pulls second item. So I don't honestly, I think maybe once or twice where we thought it was going to go and then at the last minute got pulled in, a walked out it's rarely happen everywhere. Have staff available right my appeal. >> My recommendation then is to leave it as flexible as possible. Leave the wording just as it is. >> at this and take out via email just say, by of icing, the charter officials. In advance vans occasion. All right. I read it as that. Next. Let's go to Page 6. >> Page 4, I'm sorry for you on this one. Sorry about that. >> The C? >> Are we okay with that? Yeah. I'd just like to say since our first workshop. I've noticed. The city auditor and chiming in more as the parliamentarian, feel a little more comfortable to do that say that. I've also noticed. >> The mayor a >> sort assuming more. >> I do. I say authority in guiding the meeting you know, I think both of those things are good. Even though we didn't approve. >> changes which really weren't changes. >> I I applaud both of you. think going, you know, In Following up sort of what you're saying or amplify it. I think, you know, whether is whether I think whether it's annually or every other year or so. >> It's probably a good idea for us to go over these 2 likely cause. You know, I've been on 10 years if we had got it. We want to over 10 years ago and it's, you know, so that you can refresh your memory about what the procedures are. Again, you know, even though you're sitting there doing it, we're still pretty. We're in a pretty loose us if part of thing. As for our office, what we talked about doing knee probably >> It's not bases may be every election cycle after that revisiting means every couple of years. Yeah. Making sure off the election cycle. So that gives the new time to get the meetings under their feet and then they can have a year under their belt. it's a point just to kind of so everybody's aware should be shortly after the election because I think the new commissioner should be aware. >> And not be there a year and not realize, you know, I think it should be part you know, not? >> And we can talk about more. That's not a decision we have to make. But right now I do think that this is something does need that your little again. Yeah, we gotta do that more often. So so I think we started this in my January of the numbered year. So that gave the new commissioner a couple of months to get acclimated, right. And and so like if we plan to do it, January of number of years, plus, I won't be here. But before move on, that's what you want to say. Instead of consistent. >> Pursuant to its article 6 Section 5 Subsection F. >> yes. And yet because, yeah, it's better to point out like exactly where we're at consistent one. Alright, right? >> Okay. Article 6 Section 5 subsection of. >> Okay. And we were going to go contribution let >> All right. So we're all good. There will go down to order a business, even though this was already in there. We just kind of make highlighted those that was talked about time limits will be established at the beginning of the hearing for the public hearings. Sheila, this I think you need to go back because I don't I'm not 100% certain. We're abiding by that particular. have a in fact. I know we're not. it that? I don't think ever done at a new lease out. >> The history of that I can recall are conscious point. >> If we're not going to follow the rule, then why have the rule? >> point is a point because I don't think the commission's Everett said we don't want public Everybody leave note yesterday. Minutes up. No way. Can you see that? I can see that. >> And you know, and that's usually the citizens input. Concerning city topics. Now I take that to me like the portion that's, you know, non agenda. so and I don't think we I don't think we've ever had 30 minutes. And so when I first read this, I thought you meant per person >> I mean, I have seen that there are no more than 30 minutes. I have to mean I have to >> have we ever stated? Stop? We're at 30 minutes. No, no, no. I don't know anyone who would do You would. But but I I with you in terms of 30 minutes, but maybe 2 hours. >> mean, we have seen what happened has been happening at school board meetings. So I would think we would need to have some sort of limit weathers 2 hours or 3 hours because that at the very beginning of the meeting and we could potentially not get business done because these citizens comments on maybe after 3 hours move them to a citizen comment at the end of the meeting so that we can continue business. I would. I would now I would not say I I think we should leave it in because it gives of see opportunity. >> To say we're, you know, this is limited to 30 gives us that, you know, we don't have to. Follow it. >> Except I do. It's doesn't say you may limit it to 30 minutes. It says limited and that after 30 minutes may be limited to 30 minutes and that is meaningless Yeah. >> I wouldn't know. You're really good at beginning. If there are 9,000 people there, You are good at saying it looks like a lot of you have the same issue that you're going to be addressing. If you can send a spokesperson that be good. >> You do a really good job of getting people to. Control. Their comments. That's if they want to cooperate. If they want to be disruptive, that's when we have a problem. Well, I would limited. I'm just telling you, having been the person who is the angry neighbor who comes down and does this. >> You know, you you you arrange for a babysitter. You arrange your day around being there. You cook the meals ahead of time. You get your kids taking care of ahead of time. You arrange your work. You spent 2 days reading your 3 minutes. And if someone stops you, you want to make someone this angry already even more angry? I would not touch that stick of dynamite with a 10 foot pole. I would let people have their 3 minutes to voice whatever they want to say and then be gone with their day. It seems to me that maybe it >> should be the mayor's option. 2, you know. Terminated at a certain point. I would not. I would not support that at all. I would not. >> We Our job is to listen to the public. And if it takes 3 hours, it takes 3 hours. Something's wrong. If if there are people there speaking for 3 hours, something is wrong. And this commission in this body with the charter officials. >> She hear it. If people are going to come down and hordes with torches and and rotten eggs, we should know it. We should not be limiting that you're going to take a situation that is explosive and make it even got to give her. I think discussing basically at least at the moment an issue really this not been that began exactly yeah. And so say. >> We should limit say the vision of that. He a chance to talk just just and leave it think to what was Usain. You create anybody's crazy for going through those on links to come down here speak for 3 minutes. Then wait a minute. >> I and you're graze because I I'm. >> I and you're graze because I I'm. >> I like, like, you know, range in their life around coming down here speak for 3 minutes. Yeah, I mean yeah, you know, and especially no to your point that we're here listen to people they can set up meetings to come in and speak with us beforehand. You know, anytime today, like, you know, door is always open to the public on. >> But do think that money to time. It's not all 5 of us. And so that you having been that person. It's an incredible opportunity to speak to 5 people who vote yes or no for something that is really important to you. That will impact your life. And yes, as a working mother, I had to do that. I had to cook ahead of time or arrange the babysitters, you know, range my work, I love my mother was working mother to want that. >> And my sister, I never seen any of them Anybody I know go through those lines to come down speak for 3 men. But here's the mayor's point. It's not broken. We've not have that problem. So why are we spending all this time talking about something that isn't? >> Doesn't need to be fixed nights. I would I would propose just get rid of the limit to 30 minutes piece say that >> Well, I wish if we got into a situation like the school board has where people have come during cut public comment really to disrupt. And if in reaction to that, then we added to limited 30 minutes, unlimited actually right now where that would cause I don't have a problem with taking it off. My thing is that is really. The chair. can say, hey, we've got a lot of people hear commissioners. Let's let we need. We might have to like be there limit. This is some point because we do it then as the the role of that year, too. get them moved meeting along too. So, you know, we can see here and have, you know, 3 we can at 3 hours Connelly. We will never turning the body away, but that is hard for us to sit here and have 3 hours of public comment and we still have a whole agenda. Left. writes a good point, adding it back in looks really bad Shayla. should be some value to be just sort of like when we have to extend the meeting. >> Could be a motion made by the mayor to say we will be extending the media. The public comment for another 30 minutes. At least gives you a step to the vice mayor's. yeah, you know that way if you get to appoint, people showing up in droves to say, you know, make a crazy comment. You can say, well, now we have a safeguard. That's that's a rated R rules that when we reach that. Thank you. We're going to move on to the next item. That's good. would just additional 30 minute time slots can be approved. Commissions, vote and I would actually recommend having the time slot because if you don't have a specified period, then arguably it's just open-ended. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That's good. And chapter 2.80, seconds >> I this is what we want to Joe. Yeah. >> It's 2.86 for the record 0, 0, 1, 1, 4 subsection. So 4 D says you can designate a special vibe period of time for public comment because you to do that. love it. I was just going to say that. Yeah. the 6. What? Or D a 36 point where you don't know. It 0, 1, 1, for family. 2 86.0 1, 1, 4, subsection 4 B. We'll that in Do we want to add that it may be extended? >> I think it's under the authority of the mayor. Okay. Yeah. I don't think you have to add it it can be. Yeah. What shows up on the agenda. >> You know, it just limited to 30 minutes so does say that on the agenda. I'm glad we talk this through and I'm glad Pat came up with this. That's my one good idea for the rest of the year, all at one of their mission was really one of their 5 that we all on the same page of. Keeping keeping that they're Yeah, I know that day. I think you made a very good point there. Adding it back in with look really bad. And you know, it's hard for us to imagine us being in that position. But could happen. Yeah, it could have led this year I don't know what you're talking >> OK, so we're all good. They're all move on to him again. I think we're all aware of that and we're all good with that. The public hearing time limits established >> All right. So the next page is 6 for now. pace, 6. >> All right. So the next page is 6 for now. pace, 6. >> is. >> C. This is the. >> Like this is the hot topic. I don't like I know. I know. You know, just a 69 questions for every agenda item. >> Yeah, I have often more than that. Yeah, I don't like saying that you can only ask 3 questions around I think it's better that we just maintain. >> More maintain the time limits. One possible. mean, I don't want people to not be able to asked their questions, but if we I think become a little more. Cognizant of the time limits and saying that's all the time you have you know. You can be like, you know, your time is limited. So you need to make sure you've asked your questions ahead of time when you can. >> Our our like last night, I mean, when we had the item there we all took turns be rotated. And there were questions that Debbie asked the Kyle was going to ask that he didn't have to She asked them and we just rotated through it. I will say they have body it here to the time limits. I can tell you that with that buzzer went off. I stopped. You did. But the most I stopped. I think we did. You know, if you hear the buzzer go off, you stop you and let next person No, I don't even know what those buzzers are stop. You never liked you never go over It's early a way. >> I'll says commissioner, you good inning. You get out I mean, you this is what the language we took from the last meeting. So if you will not aren't comfortable we can change it don't want to just limit the number of questions rather I'd rather limit the time. What what was the time before? And is that a resource like that? What the time was we were we would judge by the item. >> So what you know, we would talk about a staff level. How much time do you think is needed to? But I can't come. The yuan has that. So want to set a specific time? item. What I was thinking in my mind is if the time before was 5 minutes per commissioner per round. >> That would be 25 minutes per round. And if there were 3 rounds that would be 75 minutes and then sort of like saying, whatever. >> And then having a >> total numbers. So the effect saying 5 minutes, 3 rounds. But if you know, everybody has spoken and one commissioner or more. >> Still have more, but that the debate could not extend beyond an hour. I would not like to limit because sometimes when you ask questions, you don't know what the response is going to be. And sometimes they go on forever. Never never land there. And sometimes it's, you know, they can be, you know, you don't want to be rude. >> And then sometimes their responses lead to 2 or 3 other questions that are follow-ups and so you may want to like limited by theme of question, you know, like I'm asking about a certain piece of this item. And then once I feel like I've I've had my chunk of time just pass it along. Its have got more. But passing it alone. You know, mayor, I could so part of the problem with? >> Well, we love Hurkacz and her questions. >> Well, we love Hurkacz and her questions. >> I but >> in chunks and time limits. So part of the issues we have the balance, the level of questioning and not all of you and I'm not this is not critical in any way, shape or form. But if you go back to, you know, commissioner direct to the point. her conch tends be a little bit more Vo burst. Vo burst. >> Better. French for now of the the the issue that we have is. >> love you guys, but sometimes you guys can debate the color red for 2 hours. So like the other night, you said, you know, would be nice if there another side on twice. That's why been up yeah, exactly what we have to try to balance the conversation versus and some of you don't mind being here till 10 o'clock at night. Some of you want to by So we've got to try to balance a staff, OK? We have this item and I got to be honest with As I told the one lawyer yesterday, he said, well, how long do you think it's going to be? And I said, look, man, I'm like 20% on calling these things. So usually say it's going to go quick. It's they spent 3 hours talking about it. And if I think it's going to go long, it could be done in 30 seconds. So it really does to commissioner her conscious point. It does ebb and flow quite a bit. But I think we do have to have some guardrails on moving things along and maybe come back tonight. And I think quite frankly, you guys do a great job with how it currently is. And, you know, as I always say, if everyone's mildly annoyed, you're winning, right? So sometimes, you know, we want to move things along. And and, you know, I've heard commissioner and Kratz about for I'll come around and I think we need to. I think we need to, you know? >> Because I do that's right here. That's right. got to wake up. But the mayor's point, I think, you know, we do have to have there's got to be a cadence. And sometimes if you get really into the weeds, yeah. And as to ERCOT just point, you don't know what verne's going to say. He could bring up some completely. >> Random and we could go down a whole other thing. But I will say I think this commission has been very good at saying, you know, the mayor has done a great job on hate. Let's get back on. You know, we is the the excel in this fine. If you don't want to do questions. >> The day we need to have times so, you know, are. But I do think we need to have some like Mr. Robson some guardrails that you got all is what it is. So what do you all want it to beginning? I said I like this. What I like. About it is that each commissioner asks 3 questions and then it goes on to another commissioner. I think limiting the number of rounds in writing. Is not a good idea because we may have an issue. Where we need to talk for a long time. If it's a a simple issue, we won't need 3 rounds or 5, but I would like to say each commissioner gets 3 questions and then we move on to another commissioner. And here and catch sense all come back around. I don't know if I want to limit it to 3 questions. But like there should just should be some guardrails keeping some language that says keeping cognizant of everybody's time. You know it within 10 minutes. Ask your first round and then we go around until we leave. Well, asked her questions, you know, because I mean, I know in Congress think they limited by time. So they think they It's just the answer portion of it is the hard right? Well, but then were not the Congress focus, you know, others because, you know, one of the things that we have to consider is besides, you know, the commission's time the staff's time, everybody waiting in the audience to put on their agenda item. >> And, you know, they get 3 minutes to talk refine. This is talk and we go on and on and on and on and on. >> And it's got, you know, if I'm. >> And it's got, you know, if I'm. >> They're sitting talk about getting mad. It getting really mad. You know, I mean, I don't know how much we in mountains hat and Tyler stalls clients had to pay them for sitting there all day. You know, because they probably had to pay their hourly because by go to court sit in the hallway, my client's been for my time. So, you know, I think we have to be cognizant of everybody's time when where doing this. So I think, you know. I don't know what right this second, what the answer is. But it's it's got to be limited. you know, and if you know, going in. It's limited. You know, try to get your answers. know, I had a time. 10 minutes is a reasonable amount of time for round of questions and answers leeway each individual commissioner. Yes, is start. You have you have 10 minutes to ask questions and they have 10 minutes to answer some 10 minutes. >> To go around and then if you need a second round and somebody hasn't asked a question and you have a second, I'm not I don't understand what your 10 minutes asking questions. Send a note. So an entire round would be 10 each clip ad Dish Commission so that one round would be 15 minutes could or name doesn't have to be. You don't have to take up the time. We don't have to fill that space. But >> you know, if you have questions, you pass. I would his 5 minutes is not a lot of time to ask questions about like just think about last night. How let me interrupt because I think the whole Spath thing was a horse of a different color. That is not really addressed by Robert's rules. So let's throw that one out for a minute and talk about under normal circumstances and that obviously this is a congenial commission. So that when one of us is starting to go over the 5 minutes and we glance at the mayor, the mayor so did not see a go ahead. So I think that. >> 5 minutes, you know, would for the first round would be a half an hour or so. >> from what I'm hearing, it sounds like you are going want rounds. It sounds like. >> You just want to have the time for me. >> Well, I'm gonna go with Robert's rules. From the standpoint of that, an individual commissioner cannot go a second time. If there are other commissioners who want to speak, who haven't had their first time, the ride. I prefer that as well. Of course. Yes. I think everybody should speak pass questions. should be doing anyway. Yeah. So and that's what the round is. You know, Sir, Robert's will just give you 2 rounds. And that's speaking to a motion speaking to the motion and 2 to 2 rounds of 10 minutes. But OK, it may be of questions. I just think that sometimes when you have I have had cases where I ask a question and they take that opportunity to talk about the entire application all over again. And then I feel like I'm being with It could just get to the point answer. The question are now. I mean, it's it's very difficult to be. the main also what what is a question if you asked them about okay, I asked burn about, you how old with the pipes. So he goes into a dissertation. but but would be on that. You know, if I had wanted to say, you know, it's a well, are they brittle? >> With that? The second question like a yes or no follow-up to the initial question, is that a second question as opposed would you explain how that works? So I question. >> Mayor, I'm asking you because you are the current. mayor right? How would how would you was the presiding officer feel about stepping in? >> If somebody was asked a question by commissioner and they go off giving a soliloquy, would you be comfortable saying let's stick to the question that was asked. Absolutely, but I think the commissioner should. Should do that as well as you know. Yeah, I think that if the commissioner is >> it and and maybe that's thing you know to interrupt and say, well, that's all I needed to know. >> we should all do that. Really? Yes, hard. It's hard to But but you can you think I mean, it's not fun. in you you and you don't have to do it in a >> nasty ways like ice sometimes see in Congress. You can do it nice way just steer them back to. No, that's not. That's that's not what I asked him now be I think once once people especially staff, understands its time limited. I think they'll start answering in a more time limited commission got to get that. And she always, you know, lets them know that. >> You know, time is limited. So, you I've seen you interrupt them a number of times. You it's actually, you know, only have so much time and whatever. Only have 2 minutes something like that. And so wrap it up or this. Get to the next question. So like that's Yeah, I do feel it and know exactly know he's it's not rude at all. I don't know. You I this proceed like that feel like I'm being see see that weight. Know you you? >> At that point run in an answer and light wintry mix in a little bit in come to some sort of understanding of what we're trying to do here. What do you think of this suggestion? Instead 3 rounds? We say will have 10 minutes. To ask questions now if you guys the around this up to you, I just don't know. I'm just trying to figure out how to put some sort of Garland. You don't want to 3 questions. >> You don't want Rao A little while we're not some remote lot rounds. You know, I think there should be more than one round truth, 100%. And that's because, yeah. >> Final sentence in see will remain as is. >> You why don't we just delete every commissioner who desires to ask questions, has not? >> Why don't we just delete the questions? Because, yeah, that underlines section. Listen, here's how it would read. Commissioner shall be allowed to ask direct questions for informational purposes, period. Commissioners will not ask another round of questions until every commissioner who desires to ask questions has an opportunity to has had an opportunity to do we can't limit ourselves, what are we? But then the more times. That's what I'm hearing and no more just BP, respectful of one another and and just looking on another example this is a Tampa councilmember shell limit time for discussion and debate on an agenda item too long. No longer than 5 minutes on the first round. >> 3 minutes on the second round. And then they'll not be recognized by the chair to speak a second time of another member who has not spoken the first time desires. The floor. And should refrain from speaking more than twice on the same subject at the same. >> Limiting did, too. Because what I think we have all seen is somebody another commissioner will bring something to light that we would like to do. A follow-up question Click It used our yet to round say. You could treat gout but >> yeah, I would. I would not limit the red. I would not limit the number of rounds we can go, but just try to keep those between short, you know, the way. Commissioner Alex is ahead. 2 questions. I have 3 questions I don't know necessarily know ahead of time, but she's very short. You know what you asked? pointed. And then she moves along. And then so I I like moving along. I like hearing your questions. I like hearing I like hearing everybody's questions. And then that makes me think, oh, yeah. Well, what about that's a good idea. But what about this? You know, then we're sort of more playing off of each other's ideas and so the more collaborative. >> I'm I'm wondering deputy city manager, this is for you. Obviously, if we have a yes, no question. The staff might say yes, but with and with an explanation, is it reasonable for city manager to have advise staff that when it's a yes, no type question. Don't go on forever with the clarification that, you know, it's meant as a brief response. I can tell you what my direction has been to our staff is answer the question that's asked. So that's very early in your policing career. When you testify. >> If they ask you, yes or no question generally, you answer yes or no. Now what? We've also had the conversation is you need to tell the entirety of the truth, right? So if it's yes, with a caveat, I do want to tell them if you say yes or no when it's yes, under this criteria. So I don't we definitely want to talk about brevity. And I think for if you look at a couple of Brianna and Rebecca, example. Again, they are. They answer the question that's asked. They move on. And I can tell you, yes, these find individuals on the other side, how many times I say you need to have your staff watch them testified. This is how it's done. Get in, get out. Tell the truth. Answer the questions, get off the Dyess because we have to move things along. They're not up there to have a chat with you. If you want to do that, we can do that through one on ones they're there to basically testify to something. So we do do that to a certain extent. You I guess I could you know, when they start rambling you know, look at him, go wrapping up. You know, I don't think about don't think the Seth is. >> to tell. You know, I don't I think the staff is there was a a very concise yeah, think often the staff's the problem. >> Yeah, I think is it really is the controls. sorry. But you know, give them the floor and they go on forever Well, it's yeah, it's not earning their >> Yeah, it's not just the attorneys. I think, you know, in people answering questions. So. Well. How about this? I think let's to do This >> You know, you know, maybe let's try this in action. Not necessarily put it in right now. But tried an action that the 3 questions, 3 rounds. >> And that's it. And, you know, >> I'm not willing to do I don't like 3 rounds and I don't like 3 questions. I don't mind your rounds. I know not for me. I mean, look, usually we can do it. And 2 rounds, but there might be specific issues. >> We're we need to go around and around, you know, keep going around. If we put 3 rounds him there. We're not doing our job. If there are more questions we need to ask them and get them answered. Well, I was saying not to put it in here. Not to put not to put it, but riot, but try it shows so you would do it. See how it works. We can try it like doing limiting to 3 questions. And do the rounds and then we can try at limiting to a time >> do it in action instead of words. One that again, you know, Texas ahead of time. It's going to be time limits around again. My only concern with that commissioners and I don't necessarily think. That you want to limit the number of questions because I'm what her cautious saying. Sometimes people ask, you know, what's one question like to the vice mayor's Pat, is that a blue shirt? Well, it's blown white That's an answer. Well, how many stripes it just leads into? You know, I don't want to limit the questions, but love you guys. But there's got to be a point in which there is a procedural and to something otherwise depending upon. Ocean, depending upon the group of people that are in the audience. You guys are under a lot of pressure every day when you're on that dice and sometimes to continue these conversations, there has to be a tool. Were all use the term an off-ramp. Yeah, that we've got to get. We've got to get got to get to a procedural. Yeah, we have and yet we have to forward. Gotten under 10 minutes. The first round ask questions. >> Limited. Keep keep it under 10 minutes and then you can go a second round 5 minutes. The second, let's hear again, what Mr. Polls X said about because now that's sounding a little bit more appealing. >> But you don't have to have the same. It was 5 in 3. He was said maybe you all 10 in 5.10, in 5, right? that's our mileage. Informant end to the mayor's point. If that doesn't work, which I? >> I really don't think it's going to be that big of a deal for this commission, Tony. They know I think if we codify that and then look at how that plays out in practice. We can always change. >> And if we can put it in words that say that these are guardrails, they're not limits. You know, if we need more leave it open-ended that in those situations. >> that's always the case. I don't know to happen with that. >> And there I think you guys always been for the most part. I mean, for the most are the most part open-ended. >> What if we said because I'm I'm concerned, I don't want I don't like Tampa's limiting it to 2 rounds. What if it were? 10 minutes for the first round 5 minutes for the second round and 3 minutes for all subsequent round. Yep, that sounds It that that could. Well, I'm has said allows us flexibility to go on a moment. We're not going want to go up unless we have But candor and then we'll see how it works. But include that last sentence in Paragraph Keep the last sentence commissioners world not as Yeah. All right. I think that's where it I reading. staff perspective. You know, if it go, it was 10, 10, 10. >> One consent item would 3 hours long. And also I think that that's a really good the reducing time. I think it's a great idea that. >> Well, thank you. I'm glad we got system sort >> Well, thank you. I'm glad we got system sort >> think Joe their way to go >> So then let's move to D there. So we struck out can not. Who will not. 2 will Are you same page? Same zone. So I think that language that we just discussed might this isn't a motion. Yes, this is nested. That's fine. Because that's typical Robert's rules of up. And so commissioners will not speak up Mexico hand, but want can't okay. >> Redi mix I thought about addressing this now, I don't know if we We could come back to it. But I want talk about on H 7, 7, sorry. March by commissioners. I wanted to kind of go into that a little bit. I feel like guys been going wrong. Please tell me. That remarks by commissioners have gotten to a where I don't think that's what that space is for is for going through you all's calendars. I don't I spread commissioners is for that. I think that should be a place for wear. This. A Joe's smoke comes and says I have issue with my street in new Milan Sames throughout And I think we need to look into that or let's say. >> You are asked Florida. ccna me and they're like, hey, they're having issues on a street with potholes. You bring it up, taste that could looking at. I don't think that is what the commissioner comments say. would you say that that you would consider that more of a directive time period for the commissioners to interact? >> Unscripted with staff. Yes. >> Yeah. And I just think that we if you want to have things you want the commission is to know about. And I talked to the about it and I wanted to bring this up to you as well. Is at the end, we can put something on the agenda where? The say you give your admin, hey, this is everything I did. I would like for the commissioners to know about. Put it in there to throw it in. There. It's on the agenda. If people want to go on to click on it and look at it, they can is public >> in in very we don't even it's not. It's not how we talked about how to describe it. Items. Commissioners. It ended or in case you want. If you want to put your if you want, Christina, put your schedule in there. You know, you want everybody to know what meetings you want to from. I don't know. I just see. The only thing is is that, you know, when we are on our boards are different ports that were on tdc over the Bay Park or whatever. I want to know what they're talking about. You know, I want to know what happened in your boards that you're you're on. I want to know what's going on with the >> economic development. I want to know what you which you're representing the city and the city Commission. But usually that even talked about it. Just as you see, I attended this unattended that. >> I think a better way to get that information out is to put it in you know, some kind of a written document. You know, I went, you know, I attended the mpo meeting and these are the issues in its written out that then is distributed. >> All of So I don't know. What did I mean? The things that that I attend, for Sarasota Bay Estuary right? There are so many things there that we and I vote on your behalf, right? I vote on the city's behalf on these things. We have, you know, the project up at the MLK Park. We've got, you know, of us as a shoreline restoration project. There's one down at Marina Jax. It's so much easier if I can just say to you. Okay. So this is going on a range acts. That money is being held up and you say why so many being held up and I say Kuz, the federal government's not distributing funds anymore. And you say why is that? And I can tell you and share with you so that when people ask you about it, that you can say I now know about this. I don't know what you're going to ask me about those items be put some type of format, you know, whatever, as opposed there's that's a good so Chun's then, know, it. >> Then then it could be asked. But I think most of the time. >> It can be. >> A narrative that's, you know, sent out ahead of time. And if you don't get it to that meeting, it can be at Navy at the other meeting because by that point in the meeting, basically. You can be totally here. Not to is like unlike let's just get So when you get, you like in other words, that point, nobody wants to hear it. >> When you get back to your email doing, I want to hear what your what's happening in your meat when you but nobody's doing that. Don't I mean, nobody else's. I mean, it do it. the men then then used to do it and and go back to 2009 2010. Go back and look at those meetings at the very end. And I thought it was the stupidest thing. I I remember you know, like why? >> Why are they sitting here going? I want to this and I went to that in almost sound. how you really like I got to do this and I got to do that. And it was bragging not, you know, I mean like that. It will come across. Well, does. Sometimes I go. You don't sound like that. But do I mean that it does come across, is like if one person is sharing in the of the most do is I look at look at everything I did. But they didn't do anything telling us from outside. That's what it looks. >> comes across that way to not just me but to others. >> Exactly. poking the people that that. To the percent out in the Whatever that is listen to me does not myself, people that I've spoken to, they they see it as coming across as performative. And when you know, as opposed to mean. We're not really getting anything from it. And whatever is this, you know, just going on and on and on. And that's been that's that's what I see. And that's what I hear from people. And that's what I've heard from people in. you know. >> we don't want hear about to say maybe we put it in some sort of light. Yeah, so they can carry on it. Everybody can know about in the public because then it's on an agenda. That's what it's for. It's for really the public to know that I attended on behalf or you attended on behalf of the commission and the public. This meeting where you're voting about spending tourist dollars on something or or federal income dot federal grant dollars on something in the city. You're spending it at MLK Park, but you're not going to spend in Marine Jack part and I voted on your behalf and on their behalf to do it that way. I think the know these what I've taken to doing when I come back from the meetings I represent the city yet. >> You'll see it when you get back to your email. And the memo goes like this. Rick shares the agenda of the EDC meeting with you from March 12, 2025 if you wish any backup materials that are available from that meeting, please let us know. Perfect. >> Can I get a word edge wise First of all, I think what news Grigg said in terms of the remarks really should be action items, whether it's, you know, I think this is important enough for us to have a discussion about you know, to put on the agenda or I think this is something that the city manager should follow up on. >> But >> with our committee assignments in many instances, I figure you had been delegated the environmental person on this commission and you are looking out for the good of the city with all of those meetings. So if you want to give us a written report, then we if we're interested in knowing more, we can find out more. But my feeling is you're handling it. I don't need to know what you know what you're doing. And if somebody asked me a question about what's happening with the conservation easement on X Y Z has said, I think you need to talk her and cut because she's probably on top of that issue. So each of us has sort of like an area that we are running with and we should know which areas each of us is running with. So we can re for people to it. But, you know, I think the riches idea of what I do is actually a a I would not necessarily a provide the agenda. I guess I could say, OK, know, in writing. I went to such and such a meeting and these are the 3 items that I wrote down as worth remembering. And so for me, I picked this approach. >> Because I don't have to write anything. I just send the agenda. >> If you want more little Lexi our Christina know and they'll get it to you. But the agenda is public record wider it, joy, because you don't look at it. I would. You look at jury. >> oh, >> I mean, but S a choice until can choose to look you. Choose not like you're you're providing information in as the new providing the opportunity for them action or if you want to even you know, if you do want to summarize some things that you thought >> were important that you want the other commissioners to know. And you can then put that in the memo in a And this is, you know, this is what we worked on. And I think you all should know about it because I know I'm going to retain it more. If I am a document that I can refer back to that. I don't just have remember all of this that it's in writing. And I'm not saying that, you know, commissioner comments is no, we shouldn't talk about anything. It's just that is out of the place where it should be. >> And I think we need the kind of neighboring know really back in a little bit instead of just going to well, you know, I went to the bay part parade and I went to this in. I went to that and I went to But we're not really hearing about What it is. We're hearing that you just win in. And that's great. I'm happy you could with that. What does that benefit the public? You know, I know this because I do think that they do appreciate I've gotten e-mails from people saying they appreciate knowing that we do more than just me twice a month and that were out and about in the community and they were making our decisions based on being in the community and listening to the community and going to neighborhood meetings. >> And that that some of can tell you how many people are listening that into the meeting probably 3. public, you know, I I just, you know, looking at social media as much as people hate Facebook in people getting off Facebook. >> I Vice Mayor Debbie Trice on Facebook and that's where I'm trying to put the. >> I went to X Y Z event and you should be aware of now the shredding and that it was very successful. And, you know, looking forward to it be repeated regularly. So him and I think that that could be an opportunity and not going on social media will not do that. No, thank you know, thank you. That's thank you. You can do that all you want, but I'm you what I'm saying or or send out a starter newsletter. I am not going to the but could get to more people than who's listening at you. >> fitting last night a data at 7.44. and to your point, just as you said, you know, I'm not doing it. Just did lot of people like I'm not sitting listening to what it is. You know, everything that you went to, you know, you mean, is this >> same sort of press room with that? I think that if you just if you if this important to you and you put it in some type of 4 men is email, whatever is as commissioner. You know, suggested I think that should suffice. You know, that inside email in your mouth. >> one of e-mail, but but you can give it, you know, give it to them. What you know, Christina is that. >> Let me out just is anything as we saw today, I'm just trying to kind of maybe I mean, that we need to fit, maybe figure out that portion of the meeting that the could be a whole a whole piece on there that either that that's the part where you share from your committee meetings or your neighborhood meetings, issues of things. That it. What if we're not interested? But it's not just for you. It's also for the public to know. Well, they can click on. >> Click on. You know Web to get that information. If that's if it's that important to them, what have you know? I don't think that people want to literally sit that ended a meeting and listen to everything that he would getting of I'm I'm I'm going to ask. >> Are you making a list before the meeting that you're reading from when we get 2 commissioners comments and the list is usually either it's the documentation that I have that like on the agenda. write something like for action item or and I put, you know, see, see, like I want to make. The commissioner is aware of it and I'll have likes the papers or whatever that I want to share with you. Things. It's just the things that I attended that I want the community to know that we were out and about doing things. And then it's just I just scribble that down. And that, you know, look, if you're not interested in hearing what we what we discussed at, you know, the Sarasota Bay the tourist development tax or any of those other things than then I won't share it. That's fine. >> But in like the same like when someone's at end of and they have information that they give it to you that they want says is the same and whatever, you know. >> Commissioner Cause, not saying people should in the interest that I think people should be interested and I'm saying is. Would you would be better use of time for us to just put the information, some everybody can get it and have access to it. That's all I'm just saying I just don't have a ton of time to be like writing big summaries about everything and attaching the backup material and sharing all the information. I have a whole nother job. You know, aside from the 70 hours I put into this one and a family and a life and a house that's half constructed in but site now. So why I asked issue wrote a list because I'm imagining that. OK, I've seen you're going through your pages at, you know, the end of the meeting. But I'm just wondering. >> If you're going pages, couldn't you just jot down that list on a piece of paper and hand it to one of the admins to kid to give to brakes and that would some of the problem. We don't necessarily commissioner. All Ridge said, if you want the backup material, if you want more information, contact me. But here's my basic lists. I just I just. >> Because it is is that the U.S. all today? I just wanted to kind of bring it up because >> you all look. Like different. >> you all look. Like different. >> Bodies during that portion of the meeting because you have. >> Maybe when individuals saying, hey, removable, everybody's light. >> Not I'm not been and that then it just makes it look like the rest of, know, by and it just doesn't you're talking about not trying to right here you're not talking about it. I just want you all to look like as a whole. It just looks. >> It doesn't look. >> Well, as a body when we do that, you know, I mean, I know you mean and is is that, you know, I have been involved at this level, you watching the commission being involved in the commission for well over 20 years. And I found it as a citizen, very helpful. When I learned that the commissioners on my city went to DC went to Tallahassee, were involved in all these different was I had no idea when I would go talk to them about my one limited little thing that they had this whole scope that they were working and doing all these other things. I find it fascinating. I found it informative and I find it helpful. And if you all don't think citizen that into running for office in staying in office, I don't see many people say, oh, I want run for the city commission. I know to it seems like we have 2 different opinions here on what to do. >> We can either agree to disagree or we can come to some sort of compromise. And what we're gonna do regarding commissioners comments we can vote on it now or we can do know trying to put that admitted into 2 different things. So I think the things that I attend list is the thing that's most annoying so I can keep her things urge not ours, right? And it's fine. I hear it. I got years. And things the boards, for example, the Tdc, the Sarasota, but this is casual were allowed to like a real here. I And the things that are like the boards like the Sarasota Bay Estuary. >> Which always has important things I want to share with you all. It's an incredible Some of the Florida League of Cities, Things. You know, those things I think are really important. And so I can segmented out. The neighborhood meetings, maybe if something arises. That's super important mission. that's all I'm saying. Yeah, And then something arises on the boards and then you all please do the same for me because I want to know, like I want to know you are pointed last night reappointed again to the the Bay Park. But I want to know what happens on that. I do too. I really like to Highland know, minutes and we didn't know whether or not the money goes in the right. Yeah, that's about want I want to hear like didn't didn't like what was the discussion? Did they spend the money, right? Why did you change anything? You know, I want to hear that stuff and that's with that. Basically. I think we should do saying, you this, we don't need to know I would do this. I want >> But if you say I want in this is really Talked about it like for you all to know that they won't get you go. I I agree. I think that just here to say what I go this. I did go to debt. I'd okay. I'm glad you it. But we don't need to know that light right now. But you say I want to this meeting in this is what we talk about is very important. think you all should know. Please share, you know, and I think you should. So I think this just really wish should be called something else. Instead of remarks. I mean, a yearly remark, is OK to be in remarks is just that's what it is. You're remarking on something. But that's just as was the realty. I think she I think that's the correct way to do it. You know, for instance, that, you know, all right, let's say. >> I was on a call with the Florida League of Cities about the upcoming legislation and the this is the legislation we need to be. You know, we need to be thinking about, yeah, something like that. I think things like that. As you said, if something comes up at the meeting that you think is important to let other commissioners know about then do it at 6. That makes sense. But >> and I think an awareness on our part. This is at the end of the meeting and as as we can be. The better. I'm thinking, you know, if I keep up my pattern of sending you the agenda and that's that. But at one meeting, I said you don't have to do it. one meeting. I say at the EDC meeting last Tuesday. This very important item came up. You're going listen more because I don't do that on a regular basis. Right? You know, for example, to late last night, you know, is it's all about reading the room. Everybody was I think for most part I would have loved to go a little bit more into my stress stock. >> Because I for got so much and going put makes really want to be and the air in communications. And Luke, they did a great job of promoting and I didn't get a chance ask those trying hurry up because I know everybody is ready to go. So, you know, just being being able to read the room to, I think a little bit knowing that, hey, I don't need to go into a long, drawn-out conversation at the time. Says Wissam was 8 o'clock at night. So I think that's a part of it is just kind. I think I read the on on and on about the National ADL. Has that party and talked about tax exempt municipal bonds 5 minutes end. A tenant tenants for the comment. >> Wershe Those after 05:00PM. You can though, do. But no, I think I think this is a good this is a good start to this conversation. So I really appreciate that. You wanted to add last night. I look at today's agenda to see we're going to be able to have comments today, 2 after this meeting because I would suggest let's >> football tomorrow. But as comments today. >> football tomorrow. But as comments today. >> How do you guys a disaster view complex? Yeah. You guys can after we talk about Okay. I think word we kind were good on on that. So we'll move on dead horse. Yeah, it is. I was just going like I just said about the the word remarks at enough to want to change that to something else. That is little bit see. I would I would have killed announcements, remarks would've includes announcements that don't want to encourage announcements. All right. I just think evening at They have a remark. >> Not me. I don't want to light limit you all too. You know, so all right. So I think we can move on. Then let's go to Page 9. Which is probably going to be out. This is our last page to look at. So number 2, a we marked out petitioners and change it to well on the 4th line, the Titian ERs there again. Yes. Do I change that? The applicant? Yes, it is going to be applicant now on the 4th line with love worth went the end of it all. >> We? >> Yes, I think we probably should change that. What do you think? Are you okay with OK on the classic design us a little bit more legal matter. Are you okay with that? That's that's accurate. Okay. All right. So everybody good with that. All right. And then last one sergeant rule quell. >> Where it says we added the presiding officer or city manager for the purpose of maintaining order everybody. Okay with Okay. So those are all of our a look at Click >> I just want to go back to that Page 9 with the sergeant at arms and certainly for the mayor and vice It was very valuable with the situation that we we're discussing earlier about the individual that was disrupting, that we follow that procedure because it does give us authorization and legal cover. When we do take action. So there was actually a point in time when that individual and mayor, you're kind of call that out and Commissioner Betty actually said the word sergeant in arms. Could you please address this individual which then triggered are? Our enforcement option to be able to remove that person for for the violation of disrupting the meeting. So if there is situation, I would ask that both the mayor and vice whoever becomes mayor and vice mayor. Take a look at those rules because that doesn't power myself in the officer to take action and that and then it will help us up hold those actions when they because basically what's happening is you're trespassing, individual from that. If it gets to that point. So those words the following rules actually give us the ladder of escalation to get to a point where if it goes before a magistrate and we have a hearing on a trespass, it does. It does help us. So really good information, if you would mind just taking again invoked the words Sergeant at arms IOU. Take a right and its directive it that way. It's not that determination or the officer. That's that's on duty that day. It's the body. You know year actually empowering us to do our So I have questions throughout. And yeah, I don't know if one is appropriate. >> And and and I do want us to talk about the problem. >> The suspect, this path that. >> The suspect, this path that. >> Really doesn't. These rules really don't lend themselves to when the agenda item really involving more negotiating. Then information gathering for the. >> purpose of a very simple. Yes, no, a motion with maybe a few simple amendments. This it will. Let me ask this list. Let's wrap this up for can he will go because I don't want us to kind of start something else. >> Were there any more questions and kuz sessions for this? Please? Let's let's work that out first. But the idea this so on the first paragraph on Page one hand where talks about when the meeting is the first and 3rd. >> Of the you do should be put in there, except was it June and December? We're really talking about UIL's time, although we have indication the one don't they vote on the schedule. So yes, you need to put it in the room. >> You all to vote. When you schedule a look at th