City Council Workshop

>>> WE ALWAYS START ON TIME. SO WELCOME TO EVERYBODY WHO IS ABLE TO MAKE IT HERE TONIGHT FOR OUR WORKSHOP. I THINK THIS IS THE FOURTH WORKSHOP WE'RE HAVING IN EIGHT MONTHS. TRYING TO TALK OUT THINGS. SO WE'RE GOING TO START WITH ROLL CALL. >> VICE MAYOR THANOS? >> HERE. >> COUNCILMEMBER SHAW? >> PRESENT. >> COUNCILMEMBER EARLEY? PRESENT. >> MAYOR LOVE? >> HERE. >> SENATOR MANAGER O'REILLY. >> HERE. CITY MANAGER IS PRESENT. COUNCILMEMBER JACKSON HAS ASKED TO BE EXCUSED. LET ME KIND OF START WITH JUST A LITTLE BIT OF AN OVERVIEW. ALL RIGHT? I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF YOU -- THINK FEW OF YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN PRESENT FOR THE PRESENTATION. WE WERE. IT WAS VERY OVERWHELMING. A LOT OF TERM AND ACRONYMS THAT WERE NOT IN MY WHEEL HOUSE BECAUSE I'M NOT AN ENGINEER. BUT I'M EXTREMELY GRATEFUL TO GET THE PRESENTATION. WE NEEDED IT AND WE NEEDED TO, YOU KNOW, START THE FORWARD MOTION AND TO ME HEARING THE PRESENTATION WAS THE WAY TO KICK IT OFF. AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED AND I DON'T KNOW IF EVERYONE WOULD AGREE WITH ME, BUT I THINK THAT STORMWATER IS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE IN GULFPORT. AND THE BIGGEST ONE THAT WE HAVE TO GET FIGURED OUT HOW TO GET OUR --WRAP OUR HEADS AROUND AND HOW TO MOVE FORWARD WITH FIXING IT. I DID ASK ENOUGH QUESTIONS THAT I WAS ABLE TO FIND OUT THAT THOUGH THERE WERE A FEW IMPROVEMENTS MADE IN THE '90s IN WARD 4, AND THE TANGERINE STORMWATER/QUALITY WATER IMPROVEMENT WAS MADE APPROXIMATELY 15 YEARS AGO, BILLION DOLLARSS THAT --BESIDES THAT, WE HAVE A VERY OLD SYSTEM THAT WAS DESIGNED FOR LIFE A LONG TIME AGO. I THINK --ISN'T OUR CITY ABOUT 125 YEARS OLD NOW? >> 115, YEP. FROM OKAY, YOU KNOW. >> WE HAVE AN ANTIQUATED SYSTEM AND THE FACT WE'VE HAD SO MUCH WEATHER CHANGE RECENTLY AND THAT THE STORMS CAME OUR WAY MADE US REALLY AWARE THAT THIS HAS TO BE NUMBER ONE IN OUR BOOK. JUST TO KIND OF PUT IT ALL IN PERSPECTIVE WHY I MIGHT SUGGEST IT WAS OVERWHELMING. APPROXIMATELY TEN YEARS AGO OUR PREVIOUS CITY COUNCIL DODSED THE MOVE FORWARD ON WORKING ON OUR SEWER SYSTEM. AND THEY PUT INTO PLACE A TEN YEAR PROGRAM AND I THINK WE'RE AT ABOUT YEAR NINE, NINE AND A HALF ON THAT RIGHT NOW. JUST TO HELP YOU UNDERSTAND THE MONEY -- YEAR TO DATE, SO FAR, IN THE LAST NINE AND A HALF YEARS WE'VE SPENT $13.5 MILLION ON IMPROVEMENTS IN OUR SEWER SYSTEM, OKAY? BASED ON THE PRESENTATION THE OTHER NIGHT. IF WE WERE TO MOVE FORWARD AND COMPLETE THE SIX PROJECTS IN TODAY'S DOLLARS, WE'RE LOOKING AT $75 MILLION. SO $13.5 MILLION, $75 MILLION. NEEDLESS TO SAY, THIS IS A BIG TICKET ITEM THAT NEEDS SOME CONVERSATION. AND OF COURSE YOU HAVE HEARD ME SAY MANY TIMES HOW DO YOU EAT AN ELEPHANT? ONE BITE AT A TIME. WELL, THIS IS A GIGANTIC ELEPHANT. SO SOMEBODY ASKED I THINK VICE MAYOR THANOS ASKED ME AT THE LAST MEETING WHAT ARE WE GOING TO TALK ABOUT. OKAY. LET ME JUST KIND OF SAY WHAT MY GOALS ARE HERE TODAY AND OF COURSE THEY CAN -- EVERYBODY CAN TALK ABOUT ANYTHING THEY WANT TO. BUT THIS WOULD BE MY GOALS. I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT AS EACH OF THE COUNCILMEMBERS WOULD ADDRESS THE DEFINED LEVEL OF SERVICE THAT WAS PRESENTED TO US AND ADDRESS WHETHER THEY THINK THAT'S ACCEPTABLE OR NOT AND KIND OF COMPARE THAT DEFINED LEVEL OF SERVICE TO REALITY. AND WHEN I SAY REALITY, I'M JUST SUGGESTING THAT WE DO LIVE IN A COASTAL TOWN RIGHT ON THE WATER. AND THE WATER IS NOT RECEDING. AND IT'S NOT POSSIBLE FOR A SMALL CITY TO FIX EVERYTHING FOR EVERYBODY IN EVERY CIRCUMSTANCE. SO DECISIONS HAVE TO BE MADE. ALL RIGHT? THAT'S ONE THING. I'M HOPING WE'LL ADDRESS A LITTLE BIT THE DEFINED LEVEL OF SERVICE. THE SECOND THING IS I WOULD LIKE IT IF THE COUNCIL WOULD ADDRESS --IF THEY'RE COMFORTABLE --THE PROJECT DEVELOPMENT ASSUMPTIONS. THAT WAS A PAGE THAT HAVE MADE JUST BEFORE WE WENT INTO THE DETAILS OF EACH OF THE PROJECTS. FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE PROJECT DEVELOPMENT ASSUMPTIONINGS THAT HAVE MADE WAS THAT WE DON'T WANT TO BUY UP HOMES TO STORE STORMWATER. I WOULD LIKE FOR COUNCILMEMBERS TO ADDRESS THAT IF THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THEY'VE LOOKED INTO. I KNOW I HAVE SOME THOUGHTS ON THAT MATTER. I WOULD LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I DON'T THINK UNTIL THIS PRESENTATION WAS GIVEN THE OTHER NIGHT, THAT I REALLY REALIZED THAT WE HAVE A MUCH BIGGER RAINWATER -- STORMWATER ISSUE, VERSUS A TIDAL WATER ISSUE. I THOUGHT THAT TIDAL FLUCTUATIONS WAS A BIGGER DEAL THAN WHAT IT IS. AND NOW I REALIZE THAT THE OVERLAND WATER COMING ACROSS IS PROBABLY THE NUMBER ONE REASON THAT WE'RE HAVING SO MANY PROBLEMS. I ALSO REALLY TRULY DID NOT REALIZE UNTIL THE PRESENTATION THAT --HOW MUCH OF OUR WATER ISSUE STARTS IN THE NORTHEAST PART OF OUR CITY AND FLOWS TO THE SOUTHWEST. AND THAT IF WE CAN STOP SOME OF, YOU KNOW -- TAKE CARE OF SOME OF THE WATER UP IN THE NORTHEAST SECTION, THE LESS OF IT WILL COME DOWN TO THE SOUTHWEST SECTION. SO THAT WAS HELPFUL FOR ME TO HEAR AS WELL. THE LAST THING IN TERMS OF WHAT I'M TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH TONIGHT, I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT WE DON'T NEED TO BE GOING INTO THE FUNDING ISSUE TONIGHT. THERE'S GOING TO BE PLENTY OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THE FUNDING ISSUE, BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A CLEARER PATH ABOUT HOW WE WANT TO PROCEED FIRST AND ALSO I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THE VULNERABILITY STUDY WHICH IS GOING TO BE PRESENTED IN JANUARY BEFORE WE START LOOKING AT THE MONETARY CONSEQUENCES. SO IT'S BEEN ASKED OF ME TOO, WHY ARE WE HAVING THIS MEETING TONIGHT? WELL, PART OF IT IS BECAUSE I THINK THAT WHAT WE WERE TOLD LAST WEEK WAS SOME OF THE BIGGEST INFORMATION THAT WE'VE RECEIVED FROM THE DAIS IN MANY YEARS. AND SO CERTAINLY WITH FINANCIAL CONSEQUENCES AND I DID NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE GETTING ALL THAT INFORMATION AND NOT TALKING ABOUT IT UNTIL JANUARY. WHEN I GOT TOGETHER WITH STAFF TO SEE IF WE COULD PULL IT OFF BEFORE JANUARY, I FOUND THERE WASN'T A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY BETWEEN EVERYONE'S SCHEDULES MEANING THE STAFF. AND IN TERMS OF WHEN THEY COULD MAKE THIS HAPPEN SO WE REALIZED IF WE KICKED IT OFF AT 4:00, WE COULD MAKE IT WORK TODAY. IT WILL NOT BE THE ONLY DISCUSSION WE'RE EVER GOING TO HAVE ON THIS TOPIC. IT'S JUST THE START TO GET US OVER THE HURDLE. I WANT TO CLARIFY THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY DECISIONS MADE TONIGHT AT ALL. THERE WON'T BE ANY VOTE MADE TONIGHT AT ALL. HOPEFULLY ALL THE QUESTIONS OF THE COUNCILMEMBERS AS WELL AS THE AUDIENCE, OUR RESIDENTS, I SHOULDN'T CALL YOU THE AUDIENCE, YOU ARE OUR RESIDENTS. I UNDERSTAND THAT. WILL BE ANSWERED, OKAY SO WHEN WE DO GET TO PUBLIC COMMENT. WHEREAS TYPICALLY PUBLIC COMMENT MEANS YOU CAN COME UP AND HAVE THREE MINUTES TO SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT TO SAY, TONIGHT YOU ARE GOING TO BE WELCOMED BECAUSE THIS IS A WORKSHOP. YOU ARE GOING TO BE WELCOME TO COME UP AND ASK YOUR QUESTIONS AND OUR ENGINEERS GOING TO BE WRITING DOWN THE QUESTIONS AND AFTER EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE THEY WILL ADDRESS QUESTIONS THAT WERE ASKED WHEN THEY KNOW THE ANSWERS AND IF THEY DON'T, THEY'RE GOING TO SAY THAT THEY DON'T KNOW THE ANSWERS. BUT THEY CAN GET BACK TO YOU ON IT. AND OF THE PUBLIC, I ONLY ASK THAT IF YOU HAVE ALREADY HEARD THE QUESTION ASKED BY THE COUNCIL OR SOMEBODY ELSE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT YOU NOT ASK THE SAME QUESTION ALL OVER AGAIN. I'M HOPING IF YOU ASK DETAILED QUESTIONS HOPEFULLY YOU LISTEN TO THE ENTIRE PRESENTATION SO YOU KNOW WHAT DID TAKE PLACE A WEEK AGO. WITH THAT IN MIND TO THE COUNCIL THEN I SAY MY THOUGHTS ARE AND I'M SAYING IT TO YOU IN CASE YOU THINK NO, THIS IS NOT GOOD, BUT MY THOUGHTS ARE THAT WE WILL GO IN SPEAKING ORDER AND YOU WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU WANT. AND YOU WILL GET ANSWERS RIGHT AWAY. AND ALSO IF YOU COULD KIND OF ADDRESS THE ISSUES THAT I ASKED ABOUT TOO, THE LEVEL OF SERVICE AND THE ASSUMPTIONS THAT WERE MADE ON THE PROJECTS, I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT. AND WE'LL ALL GO IN SPEAKING ORDER. AND -- I HAVE THE LAST -- PROBABLY THE LEAST QUESTIONS BECAUSE I THINK MOST OF MINE WILL GET ASKED BEFORE I GET MY TURN. >> BEFORE I GET STARTED ONE THING I HAD ASKED WAS TO HAVE THEM ADDRESS THE WATER -- BECAUSE AMY BROUGHT THIS UP AT THE OTHER MEETING --THE WATER COMING INTO GULFPORT FROM ST. PETE. AND WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THAT? SO THAT -- MAYBE YOU COULD ADDRESS THAT SO FOR ALL OF US BEFORE WE START OUR QUESTIONS. YES, YOU CAN COME UP ANY TIME. >> JUSTIN KELLER WITH ADVANCED ENGINEERING. THANK YOU JUSTIN. >> GOOD TO SEE EVERYBODY AGAIN. REGARDING THE QUESTION FROM THE WATER THAT'S COMING IN FROM ST. PETE, LET ME GO AHEAD AND LET ME GO TO OUR SUB BASIN MAP REAL QUICK. SO YOU KNOW WE DID PROVIDE AN UPDATED SLIDE WITH SOME HIGH RESOLUTION IMAGES AND ALSO SOME LEGENDS THAT WOULD MAKE IT TO WHERE YOU CAN LOOK AT IT WITHOUT HAVING TO HEAR MY VOICE ON THE VIDEO AS WELL. SO WE --THE MAIN PLACES WHERE WE ABUT ST. PETE IS TO THE NORTHWEST -- MORE OR LESS THE NORTH AND THE EAST PART OF YOUR CITY. SO ONE OF THE FIRST LET'S SAY POINTS WHERE THERE COULD BE OVERLAP BETWEEN THE CITY OF ST. PETE AND GULFPORT IS GOING TO BE ON THE EASTERN RIDGE OF THAT 49th STREET SYSTEM. THE 49th STREET SYSTEM WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE FLOOD MAPS, IT ACTUALLY IS ONE OF THOSE AREAS THAT PERFORMS RELATIVELY WELL. IN COMPARISON TO OTHER AREAS THROUGHOUT THE CITY. WE DID NOT DO A DEEP DIVE IN THE MODEL YET BUT WE DID DO A HIGH LEVEL LOOK BASED UPON THE TIMING IN WHICH WE GOT THAT REQUEST. BUT THERE'S LITTLE WATER THAT IS TRANSFERRING ON THE EAST END OF THE 49th STREET BASIN INTO THE CITY OF GULFPORT. >> SOUTH AMERICAN -- >> YEAH, AND YOU KNOW, TOO BECAUSE -- YOU KNOW, BECAUSE REALLY THAT'S KIND OF THE TOP OF THE HILL. IF YOU WILL. SO WHEN THE WATER IS GOING TO, YOU KNOW, SWITCH BASINS, IT'S REALLY GOING TO HAPPEN MORE IN LET'S SAY THAT MARINA DISTRICT. BUT AGAIN, IN THE MAIN ISSUE THAT WE POINTED OUT WHICH WAS REGARDING THIS CASCADING WATER GOING FROM A NORTHEAST TO SOUTHWEST DIRECTION. THE MOST WATER THAT COMES IN IS FROM BEAR CREEK. NOW BEAR CREEK IS A REGIONALLY CONVEYANCE FACILITY. I AM NOT ABLE TO PROVIDE YOU WITH DETAILED INFORMATION ON WHAT CITY OF ST. PETE PROJECTS ARE PROPOSED. AND/OR WHAT BENEFIT THEY WOULD HAVE. BUT WE DID NOT SEE ANYTHING WITHIN OUR PRELIMINARY REVIEW THAT SUGGESTS THAT THERE WAS A LARGE AMOUNT OF WATER THAT COMES INTO YOUR MOST PROBLEMATIC BASIN WHICH IS THE PYCC BASIN. AND THAT'S REALLY WHERE WE'RE KIND OF SOME OF THE CHALLENGES START. >> BEAR CREEK RUNS ALONG THE WHOLE NORTH SIDE OR WHERE EXACTLY DOES BEAR CREEK RUN? SO BEAR CREEK --THIS IS THE SUB WATERSHEDS AND BEAR CREEK IS ACTUALLY COMPRISED OF THREE SUB WATER SHEDS WE TRIED TO JUST PARSE OUT FOR CLARITY. IT IS THE BEAR CREEK, PETER'S LAKE AND BOGA CITY. >> YOU CAN'T TELL WHICH IS WHICH FROM HERE. DO YOU MEAN THE GRAY ONE THE GREEN ONE AND OLIVE GREEN ONE? >> DO YOU HAVE A LASER POINTER? PRETTY MUCH THE TOP THREE REPRESENTS THE BEAR CREEK SUBDIVIDE. WHEN THE WATER FLOWS FROM BEAR CREEK INTO THOSE, I MEAN, IS THERE MUCH LAND --BETWEEN BEAR CREEK AND US THAT'S ST. PETE? >> SO THERE ARE PARTS OF THIS MODEL THAT ACTUALLY EXTEND INTO ST. PETE. BECAUSE WE FELT THAT WE HAD TO DO THAT IN ORDER TO PROPERLY REPRESENT HOW DOWNSTREAM CONVEYANCE FACILITIES CAN IMPACT YOUR YEAR. SO IN PETERS LAKE WHICH IS THE GREEN ONE IN THE TOP MIDDLE. I'D SAY PROBABLY ABOUT LIKE 11:00ISH. THAT'S WHERE THE ACTUAL LAKE IS IF YOU LOOK ON A MAP YOU CAN SEE A LAKE THERE. AND THAT DIRECTLY ABUTS BEAR CREEK. SO --THERE ARE --AND BEAR CREEK ACTUALLY --IT MORE OR LESS RUNS ALONG THAT TOP BORDER BECAUSE WHAT WE DID IS WE USED THAT AS A DIVIDING LINE FOR OUR BASINS. EVERYTHING ON THAT OTHER SIDE OF BEAR CREEK, WASN'T AN IMMEDIATE CONCERN FOR US BECAUSE WE WANTED TO KNOW OKAY WHAT IS BEAR CREEK DOING AND WHAT IS EVERYTHING DOWNGRADING OF THE CITY OF GULFPORT DOING. I'M FAIRLY CONFIDENT BEAR CREEK IS MORE OR LESS WHERE THE BASINS ARE TRIMMED ALONG THAT EDGE. >> OKAY. SO --FOR INSTANCE, IF THE LAND ABOVE BEAR CREEK WHICH IS ST. PETE, IF THAT WATER ALL FLOWS SOUTH INTO BEAR CREEK, THEN BEAR CREEK -- ACTUALLY FLOWS NORTH INTO BEAR CREEK. SO THERE'S ACTUALLY A RIDGE HERE. SO WHAT YOU ARE SEEING IS THAT THERE'S ACTUALLY A RIDGE TO WHERE THE PYCC BASIN IS REALLY THAT NORTHEAST TO SOUTHWEST. AND THEN EVERYTHING ELSE LIKE -- THE BEAR CREEK AND THE STETSON AREA, PART OF THAT FLOWS MORE LET'S SAY WESTERLY, PETERS LAKE ACTUALLY FLOWS AND BOGEY FLOW NORTH. >> OH. THE WATER FROM THERE DOESN'T FLOW INTO PYCC. IT GOES THE OTHER WAY. >> NOW, ALONG YOUR SUB BASINS AND ALONG THESE SUB WATERSHEDS, WE WANTED TO TAKE SOME TIME TO TRY TO SEE OKAY, IS THERE INEFFICIENCIES IN THE PETERS LAKE SUB WATERSHED THAT'S CONTRIBUTING TO SOME OF THE CHALLENGES IN PYCC? AND I THINK WE CAN SAY THAT THERE ARE. NOW ARE THEY SO IMPACTFUL THAT IT IS THE NEXUS OR THE CAUSE OF THESE ISSUES AND WE DON'T THINK THAT'S THE CASE. >> OKAY. >> YOU KNOW, KIND OF FROM A SUPERHIGH LEVEL STORMWATER STANDPOINT, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT A NEW NEIGHBORHOOD THAT'S BUILT OUT IN PASCO OUT IN HILLSBOROUGH, YOU LOOK AT THE STORMWATER PONDS THAT THEY HAVE ON SITE. AND THEN WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE AERIALS OF BUILT OUT URBAN PINELLAS COUNTY, SAME AMOUNT OF IMPERVIOUS. NO PONDS. SO ESSENTIALLY, ALL THIS WATER HAS NOWHERE TO GO. AND IN GULFPORT, YOU HAVE THE BENEFIT OF HAVING SOME GRADIENT AND THAT'S WHAT ESSENTIALLY ALLOWS FOR SOME OF THIS EXCESS WATER TO KIND OF CASS CADE IN THAT DIRECTION. >> OKAY. THE TOP THREE --THE GRAY ONE FLOWS WEST. BUT WOULDN'T THAT FLOW INTO PYCC TOO? >> SO WHEN THE TOP ONE, THAT ACTUALLY GOES TO THE TOP LEFT, THE VERY TOP LEFT GREEN ONE I THINK IS PETERS LAKE AND THEN -- >> PETERS LAKE WAS THE GREEN ONE? >> YEAH. UH-HUH. >> OKAY. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE GRAY ONE TO THE LEFT OF IT. THAT ONE. >> BEAR CREEK? THAT GOES INTO BEAR CREEK EITHER IN A DIRECT WEST -- AND MORE OR LESS A WESTERLY DIRECTION. AND THEN BEAR CREEK --ACTUALLY IF YOU ARE DRIVING ON GULFPORT BOULEVARD AND YOU ARE HEADING WEST TO SOUTH PASADENA. RIGHT AFTER YOU PASS 64th STREET YOU CROSS OVER A LITTLE CANAL. THAT'S BEAR CREEK PROPER. >> OKAY. >> AND THEN YOU ALSO HAVE SOME AREAS TO WHERE IF YOU ARE HEADING WEST ON GULFPORT BOULEVARD, AND YOU MAKE A LEFT OR HEAD SOUTH ON 64th STREET, YOU WILL ALSO COME ACROSS ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE ROAD. THERE'S A REALLY HEAVY VEGETATED AREA. THAT'S ACTUALLY A LITTLE MINI CREEK THAT GOES CAT TEE CORNER ACROSS GULFPORT BOULEVARD AND GOES INTO BEAR CREEK. THAT AREA REALLY GOES TOWARDS LET'S SAY THE SOUTH PASADENA SIDE IF YOU WILL. >> OKAY. SO -- THAT HELPS ME UNDERSTAND THAT PART. AND THE 49th STREET STUFF THAT RUNS PRETTY MUCH SOUTH, DOES IT CROSS THE MARINA OR DOES IT GO MORE TOWARDS THE EAST AND MISS THE MARINA? BOTH. SO 49th STREET, THE MAIN LEG, GOES STRAIGHT DOWN. LET'S SAY TO 49th STREET, TO THE TERMINUS OF THE ROADWAY. I WANT TO SAY BACK IN THE WHAT? LIKE THE EARLY 2010s, WHEN YOU BUILD THOSE MARINA PONDS, THERE WAS A BYPASS SYSTEM PUT IN WITH THE BOX CULVERT AND ESSENTIALLY WHAT IT IS, IS CERTAIN AMOUNT OF THE FLOWS ARE ROUTED TO THE BATH OLE BOX AND THEN THERE'S ALSO A SPUR, I BELIEVE THAT COMES OFF AND KIND OF MATRICULATES INTO THOSE PONDS. THAT PROVIDE A WATER QUALITY BENEFIT. SO THAT'S WHY THOSE PONDS ARE THERE IS THAT THERE'S A FLOOD PROTECTION AND A WATER QUALITY BENEFIT TO THEM. SO AGAIN THE MARINA AREA, AS WE FOUND, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT REALLY THE 58th STREET AREA IS REALLY HIT HARD BY SOME OF THIS CASCADING WATER TO WHERE THEY'RE KIND OF THE END OF LINE. THE MARINA IS MORE OR LESS SPARED FROM THAT END TO WHERE THEY'RE NOT GETTING A LOT OF THE UP THE GRADIENT WATER WE'RE SEEING START IN THE PYCC. >> THEIR MAIN PROBLEM THE JUST THE --TIDAL. >> YEAH. AND TIDAL THE FACT THEY'RE LOW. AND SO AS TIDES ARE HIGH, YOUR STORMWATER --WATER WILL STILL DRAIN IF YOUR PIPE IS UNDERWATER, THE WATER WILL STILL DRAIN. IT'S CALLED WE ARE KNEW LEE'S LAW. IT'S HOW IT WORKS WHERE AS LONG AS YOUR ELEVATION IN THE ROAD IS HIGHER THAN THE TIDE, YOU WILL STILL MOVE WATER. AND AS THAT ELEVATION DIFFERENCE BECOMES CLOSER AND CLOSER, YOU LOSE EFFICIENCY. OBVIOUSLY IF THE TIDE IS HIGHER THAT'S A DIFFERENT MAT. >> OKAY. AND THEN --ANOTHER ONE THAT I HAD QUESTIONS ON --LET ME FIGURE OUT WHICH ONE IT WAS HERE. SO ALL THESE LITTLE BASINS AND SUB WATERSHEDS, YES, THAT ONE, I DON'T ENTIRELY GET WHAT THAT ALL MEANS. I MEAN, BECAUSE WE HAVE THE BIGGER BASINS. AND THEN WE HAVE THIS. >> OH. MAYBE A GOOD WAY TO PUT IT IS THINK OF IT LIKE A HOUSE AS PART OF A NEIGHBORHOOD. TO WHERE YOU WOULD SAY OKAY, WELL THAT PARCEL IS ITS OWN PARCEL. BUT IT'S PART OF A GREATER NEIGHBORHOOD. SO I GUESS YOU CAN SAY THAT THE BASINS ARE MORE OR LESS THE PARCELS, YOU KNOW, THE INDIVIDUAL AREAS THAT COLLECT. AND TOGETHER, BASED UPON THE PIPING CONFIGURATION THAT'S THERE, THEY'RE PART OF THESE LARGER SUB WATERSHEDS. >> THEY SEEM VERY TINY. >> WELL, AND, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE -- THAT WE PRIDE OURSELF ON IN THIS STUDY IS THAT IT'S EASIER FOR US TO LUMP THESE THINGS INTO BIG BASINS BUZZ WE LIKE TO GET DOWN TO MORE LOCAL LEVEL PIPING TO KIND OF UNDERSTAND WHAT SOME OF THOSE CHALLENGES THAT YOU ARE HAVING ARE. >> WHAT DO WE REALLY NEED TO UNDERSTAND FROM THIS PICTURE? >> WELL, THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO IMPRESS YOU. I GUESS THAT DIDN'T WORK. HUH? [ LAUGHTER ] SO WELL -- >> WELL, BECAUSE -- IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING. YOU KNOW. TO ME. YEAH, WELL, YOU KNOW, TO US IT CERTAINLY IS A SIGN OF, YOU KNOW, HOW WE'RE ABLE TO SUBDIVIDE THE CITY AND IT'S REALLY MEANT TO DEMONSTRATE LET'S SAY IN THE PUBLIC SETTING, TO ALLOW THE PUBLIC TO UNDERSTAND EVERY POINT IN WHICH STORMWATER IS COLLECTED AND REPRESENTED WITHIN THE MODEL. SO. AND THIS -- THE LINK NO DIAGRAM. THAT'S MORE OR LESS THE SCHEMATIC ROUTING, AGAIN, SOMETHING THAT MAYBE THE MORE NERDY OF US WOULD LIKE TO DIVE INTO. BUT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN. SOMETHING THAT FROM A STORMWATER OR A WMP, THESE ARE KIND OF CONVENTIONAL FIGURES YOU WOULD PRESENT. BECAUSE AGAIN IT'S NOT LABELED AND THERE'S NO KEY TO THIS. I DON'T --SO THE BLACK DOTS ARE WHAT? >> SO THE DOTS THAT WE'RE SHOWING ARE NODES WHICH REPRESENTS -- >> WHICH MEANS WHAT? >> THE POINT OF STORMWATER COLLECTION. >> LIKE A DRAIN? >> A DRAIN. THAT'S A GOOD ANALOGY. UH-HUH. OKAY. AND THEN THE BLUE LINES ARE WHERE THE --BECAUSE THEY'RE BROKEN LINES. >> BLUE LINES ARE GOING TO BE LINKS AND A LINK IS A WAY IN WHICH A WATER MOVES FROM NODE TO NODE. IS IT IS A PIPE? >> IT COULD BE A PIPE. IT COULD BE A CHANNEL. IT COULD BE A WE'RE. IT COULD BE A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS. IT'S A MEANS OF CONVEYANCE. >> I DON'T THINK --IN MY MIND, WE DON'T HAVE ANY CHANNELS. SO WHAT DOES A CHANNEL MEAN? IS IT A GUTTER? I MEAN -- >> NO. SO IT'S MORE OR LESS A WAY IN WHICH THE MODEL CAN MOVE WATER. WHEN YOU COLLECT WATER OUT OF A NODE. LET'S SAY YOU ARE --LET'S SAY YOU ARE IN AN AREA WITH NO DRAIN. YOU WOULD PRETTY MUCH HAVE A NODE THERE AND THERE WOULD BE NO WAY FOR THE MODEL TO SAY ONCE I COLLECT WATER, WHAT DO I DO WITH IT? AND ESSENTIALLY WE PUT IT IN THESE --WHAT ARE CALLED LINKS AND THOSE ARE THE WAYS THAT WE TELL THE MODEL THAT WHEN YOU SEE WATER AT THIS NODE, YOU PUT IT TO THIS LOCATION WITH EITHER THIS PIPE OR THROUGH THIS OVERLAND FLOW WEIR AND IT'S MORE OR LESS HOW IT'S A REPRESENTATION OF HOW THE WATER IS TRANSFERRED ACROSS YOUR SITE. OR ACROSS YOUR WATERSHED. >> SO I'M LOOKING AT THE STREET WHERE I LIVE BECAUSE I LIVE RIGHT ON THE NORTH SIDE OF WOOD IBIS POND AND I SEE -- THERE'S A NODE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE POND. I SEE NOTHING ALONG MY STREET AT ALL. BUT YET THERE'S A BLUE LINE THAT COMES OFF OF PROBABLY 59th STREET THAT COMES OVER THERE. SO WHAT'S THAT? BECAUSE THERE'S NO --IT SHOWS IT LIKE A BLUE LINE GOING INTO THE POND. BUT THERE'S NO -- >> SO THIS IS A ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT IS A GIS REPRESENTATION OF ALL THE WORK THAT WE DO AT THE MICROSCALE WE'RE TRYING TO SHOW AT A MACROSCALE IN A PUBLIC SETTING. THERE MAY BE CERTAIN THINGS -- >> IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING THOUGH. >> I'M VERY AWARE OF WHERE -- WOOD IBIS IS AND WHAT THE BASINS ARE IN THAT AREA. I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND YOUR MAP SO I CAN TRY AND MAKE SENSE OUT OF WHAT WE'RE DOING. IF THERE'S A BLUE LINE, THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE EITHER A PIPE OR A DRAIN OR SOMETHING, AND YET THERE IS NO PIPE AND THERE IS NO WATERWAY THERE, WHY IS THAT BLUE LINE THERE? >> OKAY. WELL, SO --WHAT I CAN DO FOR THAT SPECIFIC LOCATION RATHER THAN -- >> I'M SURE THERE'S OTHERS AROUND HERE TOO. >> SO PART OF WHAT YOU WILL GET IS A GIS DELIVERABLE OF THIS. TO WHERE, YOU KNOW, THIS COULD BE LOADED UP AND YOU COULD ZOOM INTO WHATEVER DEGREE YOU WANTED TO. AND CLICK ON A LINK AND SEE WHAT NODE IT GOES TO AND FROM. AND THERE'S A LOT OF DATA THAT'S BAKED INTO THIS INFORMATION. >> OKAY, I STILL DON'T GET IT. >> I CAN ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. >> OH, GOOD, PLEASE. >> THE WATER WAY THAT RUNS FROM THE SEWER POINT EXIT TO IBIS -- THAT'S BLUE LINE YOU ARE SEEING. FROM THE -- SKIMMER POINT EXIT, YOU HAVE -- >> THE MAN TALKING DOES NOT WORK WITH YOU? >> NO. >> OKAY. OKAY. >> OKAY. THIS IS -- WE'RE GOING TO BE MORE LAX. BUT NOT TO THAT POINT. WE HAVE OUR PRESENTER, OUR ENGINEER UP HERE. HE'S GOING TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS AND IF YOU CAN'T -- AND I UNDERSTAND, I'M NOT BEING DEROGATORY BUT IF HE'S NOT GOING IT HERE MAYBE SOMEONE ELSE WILL ASK A QUESTION WHEN YOU ARE DONE THAT WILL KIND OF BRING YOU BACK, OKAY? BECAUSE WE DIDN'T BECOME ENGINEERS OVERNIGHT. WELL, I KNOW. BUT I'M LOOKING AT A DIAGRAM AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO MEAN SOMETHING TO ME AND IT DOESN'T. THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. BECAUSE WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND ALL THIS INFORMATION SO THAT WE CAN MAKE SENSE OUT OF IT. AND THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO. WHAT COULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE IF YOU ARE OPEN TO IT, IS WE COULD PROVIDE YOU A LARGE-SCALE HIGH REZ PDF IMAGE YOU CAN ZOOM IN ON BECAUSE AGAIN BECAUSE THIS IS GIS THERE ARE A LOT OF LAYERS THAT OVERLAP EACH OTHER. REALLY HARD TO GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE MODEL IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO TURN OFF AND ON CERTAIN ASPECTS. >> LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING ELSE AND MAYBE I CAN SHOW IT UP HERE. SO -- THESE LINES THAT GO INTO THE WATER, WHAT ARE THOSE? >> THAT'S THE GRAPHICAL REPRESENTATION THAT SHOWS THERE'S WATER GOING TO A BOUNDARY NODE OR A TIDAL CONDITION. >> HOW --SIT GETTING THERE? >> IT'S A GRAPHICAL REPRESENTATION TO WHERE ESSENTIALLY OBVIOUSLY THE PIPE STOPS AT THE WATER. THE PIPE DOESN'T GO IN THERE. BUT AGAIN WHEN YOU ARE PREPARING A CITY-WIDE LINK NODE SCHEMATIC, YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE CONNECTIVITY SO YOU UNDERSTAND OKAY, WELL, WHERE'S THAT LINK GOING TO? IT'S GOING TO THE BOUNDARY. >> THERE'S A NODE HERE. >> THERE'S THE BOUNDARY WHICH CERTAINLY REPRESENTS THE TIDAL OUTFALL. >> IF THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE A DRAIN --THE OTHER ONES ARE ALL DRAINS. >> BECAUSE THAT'S --THAT'S HOW YOU DO IT. YOU REPRESENT WHEN YOU ARE DOING A WATERSHED MODEL, YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO STOP AT A CERTAIN POINT. NO. I GET THAT. AND I COULD GET IF IT WAS JUST THE LINE AROUND IT. BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE YELLOW DOT. SO -- THE YELLOW DOT IS -- IT'S A NODE AND IN THIS POINT, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THERE'S -- WITHOUT NERDING OUT TOO HARD AND I'LL CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT I CAN EXPLAIN THIS AS CLEARLY AS POSSIBLE, YOU HAVE DIFFERENT KIND OF NODES. YOU HAVE A TIME STAGE NODES WHICH ESSENTIALLY ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE A REPRESENTATION OF HOW ELEVATION CHANGES OVER TIME. YOU HAVE A STAGE AREA NODE. WHICH IS MORE OR LESS INDICATIVE OF AN AREA THAT HAS STORAGE CAPABILITIES TO IT. SO THERE ARE DIFFERENT KINDS OF NODES AND AGAIN, IT GETS INTO KIND OF THE MODELING THEORY BEHIND THE STORMWATER. THAT SPECIFIC NODE IS A TIME STAGE NODE THAT REPRESENTS YOUR BOUNDARY CONDITION SO THE MODEL UNDERSTANDS ELEVATE, YOU KNOW, YOUR TIDE ELEVATION START AT WHAT? AND THAT NODE TELLS US IT -- >> WOULDN'T IT BE GOOD TO HAVE DIFFERENT COLOR NODES WITH THE LEGEND SO WE KNOW WHAT KIND OF NODE THEY ARE? >> TYPICALLY WHEN YOU ARE PRESENTING IN A PUBLIC SETTING, THAT INFORMATION -- CONVENTIONALLY HAS NOT BEEN CRITICAL TO CONVEYING THE MESSAGE THAT THE WMP IS TRYING TO BUT AGAIN WE HAVE -- THERE ARE A LOT OF DELIVERABLES IN GIS AND IF THERE ARE CERTAIN MAPS THAT WOULD GIVE YOU GREATER COMFORT TO REVIEW, WE CAN CERTAINLY PROVIDE THAT. IT SOUNDS LIKE ONE OF THEM MAY BE THE LINK NODE DIAGRAM SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND -- >> YEAH, THAT NEEDS MORE WORK FOR ME FOR SURE. THAT IS OKAY. AND THEN -- I TALKED TO MEGAN WHO WAS HERE FROM TAMPA BAY REGIONAL PLANNING AT THE LAST MEETING TO SEE WHAT HER THOUGHTS WERE FROM YOUR PRESENTATION AND ONE THING SHE SAID SHE REALLY LIKED -- I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT IS HERE -- BUT YOU PROBABLY KNOW WHERE IT IS EASIER THAN ME. THE THING THAT YOU HAD ABOUT COMPARING OUR COMP PLAN AND LIKE HOW MANY INCHES ON A STREET WERE GOING TO BE ACCEPTABLE FOR -- OKAY. YEAH. ABOUT THE LEVEL OF SERVICE? >> YES. >> UH-HUH. >> MORE OR LESS. >> AND SHE THOUGHT THAT WAS EXCELLENT. AND SHE THOUGHT THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT THEY SHOULD MAKE SURE ALL OF THEIR PLANS LIKE THIS HAVE. SO SHOW SHE REALLY LIKED THAT. SHE THOUGHT THEY WERE ACTUALLY VERY REALISTIC. MAYBE THAT NOT EVERYBODY WOULD LOVE TO KNOW THAT YES, THERE CAN BE SIX INCHES OF WATER ON THEIR STREET AND THAT'S NOT CONSIDERED A REAL ISSUE. BUT THAT'S REALISTIC. YOU KNOW, THAT IF YOU HAVE A REALLY HEAVY THING. AND I DON'T KNOW -- YOU KNOW, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HOW MANY INCHES AND I AGREE THAT THOSE ARE REALISTIC. AND, YOU KNOW, IF A STREET IS MUCH FOR AN EMERGENCY. I THINK THIS WAS 13 INCHES OR SOMETHING BECAUSE I DIDN'T TURN TO THAT YET. I MEAN, THEORETICALLY ON A STREET IN THE FLOOD ZONE AND YOUR STREET HAS 13 INCHES AND YOU ARE UPSET BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GET OUT. YOU SHOULD HAVE EVACUATED IS WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE. SO YOU SHOULDN'T BE ON THE TREAT ANYWAY. AND/OR YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULDN'T BE GOING OUT IN THE WATER ANYWAY. ONE --ONE CHALLENGE STORMWATER MODELING AND ESPECIALLY YOU KNOW, STORMWATER IN GENERAL AS PRESENT TO THE PUBLIC, IS THAT OF COURSE WITH WHAT THE COMMUNITY WENT THROUGH THROUGH HELENE AND THROUGH MILTON, THOSE ARE REAL WORLD FLOODING EXAMPLES THAT ARE PRESENT AND KIND OF INGRAINED INTO YOUR MEMORY. THERE'S REALLY NO CORRELATION BETWEEN SOME OF THE RAINFALLS THAT WE'RE RUNNING THROUGH THE --THROUGH OUR MODELS AND LET'S SAY A HURRICANE. >> I'M THINKING MORE OF WHAT THE RAIN WE HAVE THIS SUMMER. YEAH, SO I MEAN, LIKE THEORETICALLY YOU COULD HAVE 100 YEAR STORM HIT ON THANKSGIVING. AND SO AGAIN, I GUESS I JUST WANT TO, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT EVACUATING, I JUST DIDN'T WANT TO REINFORCE THAT THERE ARE SOME TIMES TO WHERE THE LARGER STORMS CAN HIT. >> LIKE THAT -- >> IT'S NOT --IT'S NOT A COASTAL -- STORM ENVIRONMENT TO WHERE THERE IS THAT. SO BUT CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, THE COMP PLAN AND, YOU KNOW, ONE THING THAT I HOPE I DID A GOOD ENOUGH JOB IN DEMONSTRATING, IS THAT THE COMP PLAN IS REALLY THE CITY'S WAY TO TELL ENGINEERS WHAT TO DO. YOU KNOW? AND THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO DO. SO DO IT. AND THE INTENT OF THAT WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE TOOK THE COMP PLAN AND PUT TOGETHER A SET OF ASSUMPTIONS THAT WORKED FOR THE COUNCIL AND THAT WERE AGREEABLE. BECAUSE AGAIN THE SIX INCHES OVER THE ROAD, THOSE ARE TAKING SOME OF THE HIGH LEVEL PRINCIPLED OUTLINED IN THE COMP PLAN AND TRYING TO PUT A TANGIBLE. HOW DOES A NERD REVIEW WHETHER IT MET IT OR NOT? YEAH, I MEAN, BECAUSE I THINK -- AT LEAST I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS NOT MEANT TO FIX A HURRICANE. A HELENE. IT ISN'T MEANT FOR THAT. TOTALLY. AND --I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING IN HERE --I DON'T REMEMBER ANYTHING FROM YOUR PRESENTATION -- THAT TALKED ABOUT LIKE SAY THESE STORMS WE HAVE THIS SUMMER WHERE WE HAD A WHOLE LOT OF RAIN IN REALLY NOT THAT BIG A TIME FRAME. >> LIKE THE FLASH FLOOD IN AUGUST ON THE 10th. >> WHERE YOU HAVE SEVERAL HOURS AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THE STREETS ARE TOTALLY FLOODED AND ANYTHING THAT TALKS ABOUT HOW QUICKLY THE STREETS WILL GO DOWN. LIKE A RECOVERY. YES. >> IF YOU WILL. YEAH. SO -- AND THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT. BECAUSE THE ONE THING I DO WANT TO REINFORCE IS THAT WHAT THESE FLOODPLAINS REPRESENT ARE INSTANTANEOUS MAXES. AND THE REASON WHY WE LOOK AT IT IS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY JUST TO PUT IT IN MY OWN SITUATION. I FLOODED DURING HELENE. LIKE KIND OF DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER I WAS IN THERE FOR TEN MINUTES OR TEN HOURS. I FLOODED AND I HIT THE ELEVATION AND IT SUCKED EITHER WAY. RIGHT? SO -- WHEN WE LOOK AT THE FLOODPLAINS IT MAY NOT --MAY SIT AT THAT ELEVATION, FOR LET'S SAY ONLY A FEW MINUTES. YOU KNOW? MAYBE YOU KNOW, AND THAT WOULD VARY BASED ON BASIN. BUT IT'S STILL PRESENTED AS A MAX BECAUSE STRUCTURAL FLOODING IS STRUCTURAL FLOODING WHETHER IT'S FOR A MINUTE, TEN MINUTES, TEN HOURS. NOW I WILL SAY THAT PART OF THE, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE CERTAINLY CHALLENGES AND BEING A COASTAL MUNICIPALITY. ONE OF THE BENEFITS IS THAT YOU HAVE THE BIGGEST POND IN THE WORLD TO DRAIN TO. SOMETIMES THAT POND DOESN'T LISTEN AND IT BACKS UP. AND YOU CAN'T GET IT DOWN. BUT ESSENTIALLY FROM A STORMWATER MODELING STANDPOINT YOU DISCHARGE TO AN INFINITE VOLUME POND. THAT'S WHAT ANY TIDAL WATER BODY IS. THERE'S NO AMOUNT OF WATER THAT GULF SPORT GOING TO PUT INTO THE BAY THAT'S GOING TO ELEVATE THE BAY. THAT'S ALL THE MOON AND THE TIDE. SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT RECOVERY, I WOULD --I WOULD VENTURE TO SAY THAT IF WE, YOU KNOW, ONE THING IF YOU PEOPLE WOULD BE IMPORTANT SO THESE STORMS ARE TIME BASED TO WHERE YOU START AT HOUR ZERO AND YOU END AT HOUR 24. 36. WE COULD DO A FLOODPLAIN AFTER THE 24 HOUR STORM PERIOD. IF THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO SAY OKAY, WHERE ARE THE AREAS THAT ARE GOING TO SIT FOR THE LONGEST, YOU KNOW, AND IT DOES PAINT A VERY DIFFERENT PICTURE. A LOT OF THE AREAS PROBABLY DO DRAW DOWN ONCE THE STORM HITS. >> EVERYBODY WOULD KNOW THAT THE EXPERIENCES --YOU KNOW, MY STREET FLOODS A LOT. AND, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, BEING RIGHT ON 58th, KNOW, WE SEE WHAT HAPPENS THERE. BUT USUALLY, WITHIN A FEW HOURS, IT'S NOT SO BAD. YOU KNOW? YOU COULD DRIVE THROUGH IT. EVEN IF IT HAD BEEN UP TO TEN INCHES, FOR INSTANCE, YOU KNOW, AFTER FOUR HOURS OR SOMETHING. IT COULD BE DOWN TO THREE INCHES. YOU KNOW? BUT SOMETHING --THAT WOULD LET US KNOW BECAUSE THAT WOULD GIVE I WOULD THINK, AN INDICATION OF HOW EFFECTIVE OUR STORMWATER SYSTEM IS. IS HOW FAST THINGS CAN DRAIN OFF ONCE THE RAIN STOPS. >> WHAT WE CAN DO, LET'S GO AHEAD, I HAVE YOUR NOTE ON HERE FOR THE LINK NODE DIAGRAM A MORE DETAILED VERSION OF IT TO WHERE YOU ARE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, DO -- ZOOM IN. >> GUESS WHAT'S GOING ON. >> WELL. YOU KNOW. AND THEN ALSO, WE CAN PROVIDE LET'S SAY WHAT WE'LL CALL JUST FOR TODAY, RECOVERY FLOODPLAINS THAT WOULD DEMONSTRATE FOR SOME OF THESE STORMS OKAY. WHAT WE'RE SHOWING IS WORST SPOT DURING THE STORM. BUT LET'S SEE IF WE CAN GET THE NODE RESULTS WHEN THE TIME EQUALS THE END OF THE STORM AND WE CAN PLOT WHAT THOSE ARE. AND I IMAGINE THERE ARE A LOT OF PLACES TO WHERE YOU WILL --I MEAN, I KNOW THERE WILL BE A LOT OF PLACES THAT LOOK VASTLY IMPROVED OVER THAT. RIGHT. >> THAT'S NOT UNIQUE TO GULFPORT. THAT'S REALLY -- >> YEAH. >> YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE A LOT OF PLACES EXCEPT FOR SOME INLAND LAKE AREAS THAT YOU DRAIN TO A LAKE AND THE LAKE TAKES DAYS ANDDAYS TO BLEED DOWN. >> I WOULD THINK BUT AGAIN I'M NOT AN ENGINEER, IF THINGS DRAIN DOWN AT LEAST IN SOME AREAS, SAY SOME AREAS DRAIN DOWN TO --MAYBE JUST A COUPLE OF INCHES WHICH IS ACCEPTABLE, YOU KNOW, WITHIN SAY THREE HOURS, SAY ANOTHER AREA MAY ONLY DRAIN DOWN TO SIX INCHES AFTER THAT SAME AMOUNT OF TIME. THAT MIGHT GIVE US THE INDICATION OF WHICH PIPES ARE IN WORSE SHAPE THAT WE MIGHT NEED TO ADDRESS FIRST COMPARED TO ANOTHER AREA AND I COULD BE WRONG. >> NO. I MEAN, ALL WE CAN DO IS LOOK. I MEAN, THE NUMBERS ARE THERE. SO --YOU KNOW, WE CAN CERTAINLY TAKE A LOOK. >> WHEN YOU JUST SAID WHICH -- WHICH PIPES ARE IN WORST SHAPE. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE PIPE? YEAH, EITHER THE SIZE OR IF THE CONDITION MAKES THEM FOR SOME REASON NOT DRAIN AS WELL. WHICHEVER THING IT IS. BUT PROBABLY SIZE. SO AND --YEAH, I MOON, THAT'S CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE AGAIN, WE -- THE WAY THE MODEL WORKS IS THAT YOU GET PRETTY MUCH A STAGE ELEVATION AT EACH TIME INTERVAL. SO WE CAN CERTAINLY PROVIDE INTO STORM PHONE LINES COLUMN RECOVERY FLOODPLAINS TO GET AN IDEA OF LET'S SAY WHAT ARE THE LINGERING ISSUES. BECAUSE THAT WAY WE MIGHT KNOW THE AREAS WHERE IT'S GOING TO STAY THE DEEPEST THE LONGEST. AND WHICH OF YOUR PROJECTS WOULD ADDRESS THAT. THE BEST. >> OKAY. >> THAT'S MY THOUGHT. AND YOU BROUGHT UP THE IDEA ABOUT HOUSES. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT A LOT OF HOUSES FLOODED FOR THE FIRST TIME THIS TIME. BUT THERE'S A COUPLE OF HOUSES OR MAYBE FOUR OR FIVE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I THINK JIM? THAT HAVE HAD REPETITIVE FLOODING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WITH INSURANCE YOU KNOW USUALLY THAT COMES UP. ISN'T THERE ONLY A FEW? >> I BELIEVE THERE'S MINIMUM MAYBE TWO REPETITIVE LOSS HOMES. >> YEAH. NOT MUCH. AND USUALLY UNLESS THERE'S REPETITIVE LOSS, OR YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THAT A HOUSE IS MORE VULNERABLE THAN MANY OTHER HOUSES, USUALLY PEOPLE --YOU KNOW, AT LEAST FROM MY EXPERIENCE, OF HEARING ABOUT OTHER PLACES WHERE THEY BUY UP HOUSES, USUALLY NOT UNTIL THERE'S REPETITIVE LOSSES AND THEY CAN'T EVEN GET INSURANCE ANYMORE. I KNOW THERE'S A LOUSE ON THE END OF MY STREET THAT IS SUPPOSEDLY THE LOWEST ELEVATION IN THE CITY THAT'S RIGHT ON THE CORNER OF 59th AND 27th. AS YOU GO UP TO 59th ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE. >> ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE. YEAH. AND THAT POOR HOUSE, THEY HAVE --THEY WERE FIXING IT ALL UP TO SELL AND THEN IT FLOODED AND THEN THEY GOT A STOP WORK ORDER BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GET A PERMIT AND IT'S JUST BEEN SITTING THERE AND IT EVEN HAS A COUPLE OF STAIRS UP. IT HAS NEVER FLOODED IN THE HOUSE BEFORE. BUT THE GARAGE HAD FLOODED MULTIPLE TIMES. SO ACTUALLY IT WAS --IN TALKING, WE WERE THINKING WELL, YOU KNOW, IT COULD MAKE SENSE BECAUSE 59th IS SUCH A PROBLEM AND 27th IS SUCH A PROBLEM. IF YOU BOUGHT THAT HOUSE, AND IN PARTICULAR, THE ONE NEXT TO IT SITS UP HIGHER. AND MADE A POND THAT WENT OVER TOWARDS THE DITCH AND CONNECTED INTO WOOD IBIS AND CLOSE OFF THE CONNECTION BETWEEN 59th AND 27th. THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD SOLUTION. BECAUSE THAT MIGHT ABSORB THE WHOLE LOT OF WATER. AND I DON'T KNOW THERE. MIGHT BE OTHER AREAS WHERE WE COULD CREATE ANOTHER POND. OR LIKE -- FOR INSTANCE, ALONG 1st AVENUE NORTH, THERE'S A PLAY FIELD THAT'S -- >> THAT'S THE BEAR CREEK -- THAT'S A FLOODPLAIN MANAGEMENT AREA FOR BEAR CREEK. >> OKAY. WHERE -- >> ON 58th STREET. >> WHERE THE PLAYING FIELD IS -- >> THE FLOODABLE PARK. >> AND IT'S MEANT TO FLOOD WHEN THERE'S A STORM. AND THEN OF COURSE IT CLEARS UP AND YOU CAN USE IT FOR A PLAY FIELD AGAIN BUT YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE WORTH DOING TO ANY OF OUR AREAS. LIKE I DON'T KNOW IF HOYT FIELD. IF YOU DID IT AT HOYT FIELD, WOULD THAT HELP OR NOT HELP? OR ANYWHERE --I DON'T KNOW. >> AND THAT'S A REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE BECAUSE I THINK THAT SPECIFIC AREA SHOWS THE SPACE KIND OF THE FOOTPRINT THAT YOU NEED TO MAKE A DENT. YEAH. >> AND YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY THAT AREA THAT I GREW UP IN ST. PETE. I NEVER QUITE UNDERSTOOD WHY THESE DUMMIES BUILT IT SO LOW AND THEN I, YOU KNOW, I'M ENGINEER AND NOW I GET IT. YOU KNOW, THAT AREA TO WHERE YEAH, MINE THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF CANNING OUT A BIG CHUNK OF LAND. ALLOWING FOR A DEGREE OF USABILITY BY THE PUBLIC DURING THE DRY TIMES, AND THEN A RECOGNITION THAT IT'S NOT GOING --IT SERVES A DIFFERENT FUNCTION DURING THE WET TIMES. IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING TO WHERE WE DIDN'T SPECIFICALLY LOOK AT THAT HERE BECAUSE AGAIN, AS WE COME AND PRESENT PROJECTS TO THE PUBLIC, I PREFER NOT TO HAVE TOMATOES THROWN AT THE BACK OF MY HEAD FOR HEY LET'S BUY THESE HOMES AND CONVERT THIS PARK TO A POND. BUT THESE ARE ALL OPTIONS THAT AS YOU SEE OUT AND ABILITY. THOSE ARE EXAMPLES OUT THERE. >> I MEAN, ESPECIALLY, USING HOYT FIELD AS THE EXAMPLE. MIGHT NOT BE THE RIGHT PLACE TO DO IT. I DON'T KNOW. BUT YOU KNOW, AGAIN WOULD STILL BE USABLE 09% OF THE TIME. NOT MAKE IT INTO A PERMANENT POND. BUT --YOU KNOW, THAT COULD BE A WAY THAT MIGHT BE LESS EXPENSIVE AND AGAIN I DON'T KNOW THAT RATHER THAN DIGGING UP STREET. YOU KNOW,, TO JUST TAKE OUT DIRT AND RESOD AS OPPOSED TO --AND MAYBE PUT DRAINS AROUND OR WHATEVER YOU DO TO DO THAT. BUT ANYWAY. IT'S JUST ANOTHER IDEA OF SOMETHING TO DO. ESPECIALLY IF IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS IN A GOOD PLACE TO BE EFFECTIVE. UH-HUH. >> DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? >> I THINK THAT'S IT FOR NOW. I MIGHT HAVE MORE AFTER. >> OKAY. THAT'S ALL RIGHT. COUNCILMEMBER SHAW. >> WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IS AS AN EXAMPLE OF THAT IS CLIMBER PARK. THERE ARE SECTIONS OF THAT THAT DO SERVE THAT PURPOSE. >> THERE COULD EVEN BE -- >> LIKE MAYBE MORE SWALES OR SOMETHING POSSIBLY? WE DO HAVE SOME OF THAT. CERTAINLY THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN LOOK AT IF WE HOD HAD LOCATIONS TO DO THAT. THE OTHER THING I WAS WONDERING, A FLOODPLAIN, SINCE STORMS ALL ARE ALL DIFFERENT, HOW PREDICTABLE DOES THAT COME THEN TO SAY WHERE WATER IS GOING TO BE HELD? BECAUSE I MEAN, EVEN EVERY TIDE WE GET IS DIFFERENT TO SOME DEGREE. >> OH, YEAH. I MEAN, THERE'S --YOU KNOW, THERE'S --THERE ARE AN ABUNDANCE OF FACTORS THAT YOU ASSUME WHEN YOU DEVELOP A STORMWATER MODEL THAT NATURE CAN KIND OF MAKE A FOOL OUT OF YOU. SO IN THIS CASE, WHAT DID WE ASSUME? WE ASSUME SPECIFIC TIDAL CONDITIONS. WE ASSUME CERTAIN RAINFALL DEPTHS. WE ASSUME CERTAIN RAINFALL DISTRIBUTIONS TO WHERE, YOU KNOW, OUR CURVES SHOW A PEAK OF THE STORM RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE. WELL, WE DON'T SHOW TWO PEAK STORM. ALL THESE DIFFERENT VARIATIONS OF A STORM THAT CAN DIFFER FROM WHAT WE'RE MODELING. NOW FROM A HIGH LEVEL STANDPOINT, THIS APPROACH TO MODELING THESE DESIGN STORMS IS USED BECAUSE KIND OF CONVENTIONALLY SPEAKING IF IT FUNCTIONS WELL DURING THIS STORM AND YOU SEE THESE FLOOD BENEFITS THERE SHOULD BE A WHOLE NOTHER SUITE OF STORMS THAT YOU CAN'T HANDLE. WILL THERE BE SOME? OF COURSE. BUT AGAIN IF YOU CAN HANDLE THAT DESIGN STORM, THEN THAT GIVES, YOU KNOW, MORE OR LESS REASONABLE ASSURANCE THAT THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT YOU PAY FOR ARE GOING TO FUNCTION AS INTENDED THROUGH THE MAJORITY OF THE SITUATIONS THAT WILL BE THROWN YOUR WAY. >> OKAY. SO -- WHERE I'M COMING IN, WHERE I'M AT RIGHT NOW, IS LIKE ALL OF US, WE'VE WATCHED THE PRESENTATION MORE THAN ONCE. WE GOT THE PRESENTATION SLIDES ON FRIDAY. AND THEN -- I HAD TO WORK THROUGH THE STEPS TO BE ABLE TO EVEN DOWNLOAD IT. AND THEN OF COURSE BY MONDAY, OUR CITY CLERK WAS ABLE TO PROVIDE COPIES OF IT. AND SO THEN NOW THE REPEAT OF LISTENING AND TRYING TO GO THROUGH THE PAGES. AND USING UP SOME OF MY TIME WITH THE CITY MANAGER. AND MY WEEKLY MEETING WITH HIM I'M SAYING OKAY, AM IONSING THIS IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS PAGE AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. SO SINCE I'M --I'M BASICALLY AN INQUIRING MIND AND DATA GATHERER, I DON'T FEEL LIKE THIS HAS BEEN ENOUGH INFORMATION LIKE --LIKE THERE ARE MAPS THAT YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, I HAD TO MAKE SURE I WAS UNDERSTANDING WHERE THEY WERE COMING FROM. BUT EVEN THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY ONLY PRINT SO WELL. AND THE COLORS DON'T EVEN NECESSARILY MATCH UP. PLUS WE DIDN'T HAVE A LEGEND. SO IS THERE SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN DO TO HELP US WITH THAT SO THERE'S AN --SOME KIND OF EXPLANATION GOING WITH EACH PAGE OF THE PRESENTATION AND THE LEGENDS ET CETERA? SO THERE'S A REPORT THAT FOLLOWS THIS THAT KIND OF SERVES AS THE END DELIVERABLE. THIS WAS A -- THIS WAS A PRESENTATION OF FINDINGS AND CERTAINLY NOT INTENDED TO BE LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE DID A STUDY AND THESE WERE ALL YOU GET. YOU ARE GOING TO GET A GEODATABASE THAT IDENTIFIES, YOU KNOW, ALL THESE THINGS AND MORE DETAIL TO WHERE YOU CAN TURN THINGS OFF AND TURN THINGS ON. YOU ARE GOING TO GET EXECUTABLE MODEL TO WHERE ANYBODY CAN PICK UP THE MODEL AND RUN IT AND SEE OKAY. YOU KNOW, DID IT FUNCTION AS THEY SAN BERNARDINOD AND YOU ARE GOING TO GET A WRITTEN REPORT THAT ESSENTIALLY TAKES WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AT A REALLY HIGH LEVEL NOW AND BREAKS IT DOWN AND, YOU KNOW, KIND OF HOW WE WOULD TYPICALLY PRESENT THIS DATA TO A CLIENT. >> I DID ASK ABOUT THAT BUT I WAS ADVISED THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT AT THIS CURRENT TIME. SO WHEN WOULD WE BE RECEIVING THAT? WE'RE SLATED TO HAVE THAT DONE BY THE END OF THE YEAR. >> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND THEN IN JANUARY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THE PRESENTATION ON THE VULNERABILITY STUDY. >> YES, UH-HUH. >> SO WHAT WE RECEIVE AS FAR AS THE PRESENTATION AND SLIDES, COULD WE TAKE THESE THINGS THAT I JUST MENTIONED AND PERHAPS EVEN SOME OF THE OTHERS HAVE MENTIONED SO IT'S MORE THAN A PAGE WITH JUST A TITLE ON IT THAT WE HAVE A GREATER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT IS? AND MAYBE SOMETHING THAT'S MORE VISIBLE AND LEGIBLE? BECAUSE --YOU KNOW, LIKE THE ONE WITH ALL THE GRIDS ON IT, IT SEEMED TO BE SO RELATIVE TO THE NEXT PAGE. AND SO SOME KIND OF REFERENCE TO THAT IS AN EXAMPLE. NOW THAT ONE MAY HAVE BEEN THERE. BUT THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE WHERE THERE WASN'T. SO I'M JUST TRYING TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO TO MAKE THIS MORE ASSEMBLABLE. CERTAINLY I THINK ONCE WITH THE REPORT, BECAUSE AGAIN THIS IS --YOU KNOW, THE POWERPOINT DOES NOT SUBSTITUTE THE PAGES AND PAGES AND PAGES OF WRITTEN INFORMATION THAT DOCUMENT OUR ASSUMPTIONS. IT'S -- POWERPOINT IS JUST NOT THE FORMAT FOR THAT ADMITTEDLY. SO REALLY WITH THE REPORT IN HAND, I'M HOPEFUL THAT SOME OF THOSE ISSUES WILL BE ADDRESSED. AND CERTAINLY NEXT TIME, YOU KNOW, WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, LEGENDS WAS CERTAINLY A COMMENT THAT WAS MADE. AND WE'LL MAKE SURE FOR THE VA THAT WE HAVE THE APPROPRIATE LEGENDS WITHIN THAT PRESENTATION. THAT WOULD HELP. I MEAN EVEN WHEN I FLIP THROUGH THE PAGES AND LISTENED TO THE PRESENTATION, I MADE NOTES ET CETERA. BUT IF -- IF IT WAS IN THE DETAIL, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY HELPFUL AND SO I'M HOPING WE CAN CONSIDER THAT FOR THE FUTURE. AND EVEN NOW TO FILL IN SOME OF THE BLANKS. >> UH-HUH. WERE THERE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS YOU WANTED TO -- NOT AT THE MOMENT. CONCEPTUALLY I THINK I'M GRASPING THINGS AND I'M JUST LOOKING FOR FURTHER DETAIL. >> OKAY. I UNDERSTAND. >> OKAY. COUNCILMEMBER EARLEY? >> AQUESTION. BMP6. RIGHT? THESE ITEMS SEEM LIKE NO BRAINERS RIGHT? FOR EXAMPLE, PUBLIC FACING PLATFORM TO INFORM RESIDENTS OF PENDING ROADWAY INUNDATION. I THINK LORI ACTUALLY --BROUGHT THAT UP TO US ANOTHER TIME. RIGHT? LIKE SOME OF THESE THINGS I WAS JUST WONDERING IF WE WERE BEHIND THE 8 BALL AS FAR AS -- YEP. THERE YOU GO. NOPE. ONE MORE. I THINK. THERE WE GO. YEAH. HAVING THE SENSORS. HAVING PUBLIC FACING PLATFORM TO INFORM RESIDENTS YOU KNOW, HEY LISTEN, THESE ARE --BECAUSE I ACTUALLY DROVE MY CAR ON A ROAD THAT I TAKE EVERY DAY AND MY CAR IS NO LONGER MY CAR. OR ANYONE'S. SO -- >> OKAY. >> I APPRECIATE THE REQUEST PLEASE FOR STATE APPROPRIATIONS. BUT SOME OF THESE THINGS JUST SEEM LIKE NO BRAINERS. DO OTHER CITIES HAVE THEM AND SHOULD WE START CONSIDERING SOME OF THESE THINGS EVEN IF IT'S PART AND PARCEL. >> REALLY, I WOULD SAY THAT THE --THAT WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF COMMUNITIES ARE KIND OF SIMULTANEOUSLY ADOPTING. OKAY. AND THAT'S -- YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY THERE IS, YOU KNOW, THE COUNTY JUST PURCHASE ADDS BUNCH OF SENSORS FROM THIS SPECIFIC COMPANY. STARTS AN H AND IF I PRONOUNCE IT I'M GOING TO GET MADE FUN OF. I'M NOT GOING TO SAY IT. BUT ESSENTIALLY WHAT IT IS YOU KNOW, IT'S A NEW BUSINESS MODEL THAT'S HITTING THE MARKET. BEFORE, IF YOU WANTED TO PROVIDE SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THIS, YOU WOULD ESSENTIALLY HAVE TO PURCHASE THE EQUIPMENT YOURSELF AND THEN YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE THE SERVERS AND ALL THAT TO HOST THE DATA AND MORE OR LESS YOU WOULD HAVE TO DEVELOP YOUR OWN PUBLIC PLATFORM. SO WITH THIS --WITH THIS COMPANY THAT'S KIND OF COMING ONLINE, I THINK IT STARTED BY SOME OCEANOGRAPHER FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII. >> GREAT IDEA. >> CERTAINLY A SLICK IDEA AND WHAT IT IS IS THAT BECAUSE AGAIN IN SOCIETY, WE DON'T OWN ANYTHING ANYMORE. WE RENT EVERYTHING. SO THIS IS A SUBSCRIPTION BASED MODEL. AND WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT DOING IS THAT IT WOULD -- IT WOULD GIVE US THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAP INTO THEIR PLATFORM. THEY --THEIR SENSOR PROVIDES ALL THE DATA. THEY DO ALL THE DATA SCRUBBING IN THE BACKGROUNDS. FLUSH BUT THEN THERE'S ALSO A PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE LINK THE RESIDENTS CAN SEE. SO. YEAH. OKAY. SO THOSE ARE -- DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE TO ALL BE TOGETHER RIGHT? >> THAT WAS JUST SPECIFIC FOR THE PROJECT. THAT WAS --THAT WAS DEVELOPED FOR THE STATE APPROPRIATION REQUEST. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT THEY NEEDED. THEY NEEDED THESE -- >> AND THEN OBVIOUSLY TOO, JUST BECAUSE IT'S THERE, DOESN'T MEAN IT EXPECT CHANGE TO WHERE IF THERE WAS SOMETHING SPECIFIC THAT, YOU KNOW, WASN'T DESIRED OR DESIRED MORE OF, THERE'S -- YEAH. SO BUT MORE OR LESS, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE REASONS WE LOOKED AT THIS IS BECAUSE WE HAD SOME OF THE DISCUSSION LAST MEETING ABOUT THE USE OF THESE BACKFLOW VALVES. THOSE DO COME WITH CHALLENGES SO WE'RE TRYING TO SEE IF THERE'S A --I'M ALWAYS TOLD NOT TO SAY A BETTER WAY TO SKIN THE CAT. BUT A BETTER WHAT -- WAY TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. THIS IS KIND OF REPLACING THE BACKFLOW VALVES? >> YES. THIS PROVIDES --THIS MORE OR LESS IS A SYSTEM THAT WOULD TAKE THE OPERATIONAL DOWNFALLS THAT A BACKFLOW VALVE PROVIDES AND REMOVES THEM FROM THE EQUATION. NOW --THERE ARE OTHER HEADACHES THAT COME WITH THAT. NOTHING FOR FREE. RIGHT? YOU KNOW, SO -- AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE CALLING IT A PILOT PROGRAM BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, ANYTIME YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT IMPLEMENTING A TECHNOLOGY, THAT YOU DO KIND OF PILOT IT AND SEE OKAY, WELL, RATHER THAN DIVE HEAD FIRST INTO THE WATER, LEST SEE WHAT WORKS AND LET'S SEE WHAT DOESN'T WORK AND THEN THATWAY IF YOU DO DECIDE TO IMPLEMENT IT ON A LARGER SCALE, YOU KIND OF, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN LEARN FROM THE LESSONS OF A SMALLER PROJECT VERSUS, YOU KNOW, A LARGER DEPLOYMENT. IC LIKE A BETA TESTING IF YOU WILL. >> CAN'T ALWAYS DIAL IT BACK. >> HAVE OTHER PEOPLE DONE PILOT PROJECTS? >> OH, YEAH. PEOPLE DO PILOT PROJECTS. >> BUT THIS PARTICULAR ONE LIKE THIS. >> I AM NOT AWARE OF ONE. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT NOBODY'S DONE IT. I AM NOT AWARE OF ONE SPECIFICALLY. >> AND AM I RIGHT IN THINKING THAT THE REASON THAT WE WOULD LOOK AT THIS IN THE MARINA AREA AND MAYBE NOT RIGHT ON SHORE BOULEVARD, IS BECAUSE THIS MARINA AREA DOES NOT GET ALL THE OVERLAND WATER THAT THE -- DOWNTOWN AREA DOES. YES. NOW -- SO WE'RE SOLVING ONE PROBLEM, NOT TWO WITH ONE ANSWER. >> YOU KNOW, WE'RE THINKING IN THIS AREA, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE PROJECT ASSUMPTIONS, ONE OF THE KIND OF THE NONTECHNICAL THINGS WE HAVE TO DO IS RECOGNIZE THAT EVERYBODY CONTRIBUTES TO THE POT OF MONEY TO THE CITY. RIGHT? SO WHEN WE PRESENT PROJECTS, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE SOMEWHAT EQUITABLE IN SPREADING OUT THE WEALTH SO TO SPEAK. WHEN LOOKING AT THE CHALLENGES THAT FACE EACH AREA, WE TRY TO PICK OUT A TAILORED SOLUTION AND ONE OF THE CHALLENGES IN THE MARINA DISTRICTS IS, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE AGAIN YOU JUST DID A PRETTY IMPACTFUL PROJECT WITH THE PONDS. SO YOU HAVE A WATER QUALITY, YOU KNOW, MORE OR LESS ADDRESSED SOMEWHAT IN THAT AREA. YOU HAVE RELATIVELY NEW CONVEYANCE PIPING. SO HOW CAN WE HELP THAT AREA? THE NEXT CHALLENGE IS REALLY THE TIDAL FLOODING. SO THAT'S KIND OF THE NEXUS OF HOW THAT -- THAT CAME TO BE. WHICH IS WHY EVERY PROJECT TO BE DONE AT THE SAME TIME SIMULTANEOUSLY OR NOT. >> YEAH. AND YOU KNOW, WHAT'S FUNNY IS THAT WE SAT UP HERE AND WE TAKED ABOUT HOW WE WANTED TO MAKE THESE WHERE THEY'RE NOT SEQUENTIAL AND SURE ENOUGH WE GAVE YOU TWO THAT REALLY WOULD NEED TO BE SEQUENTIAL. GENERALLY SPEAKING THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE MAGNITUDES OF THE PROBLEM KIND OF WARRANTS IT. YOU SORT OF SAY ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE. CERTAINLY NOT IN ORDER BUT I GUESS IT'S CLEANER THAN ABCD RIGHT? >> EXACTLY. THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING. >> OKAY. SO I'LL START WITH MY QUESTIONS AND THOUGHTS. WHOOPS. THAT JUST INTERRUPTED MY BRAIN FOR JUST A SECOND. OKAY. SO THE FIRST THING THAT I WANTED TO SAY WAS I LIKED IN YOUR PRESENTATION, I ALSO STRUGGLE WITH THE MAPS VERY MUCH. AND I'M A MAP PERSON. SO I FOUND IT -- THEM VERY HARD TO READ. NOT ONLY BECAUSE THE PRINT WASN'T GOOD, BUT MY -- IT WAS TOO SMALL. I FOUND PROBLEMS WITH THEM ALL ACROSS THE BOARD. THE ONE THING I REALLY LIKED IN THE PRESENTATION WAS HOW YOU TIED THE LEVEL OF SERVICE AND TALKED ABOUT HOW IT REALLY IS KIND OF ADDRESS INSIDE --ADDRESSED IN OUR COMP PLAN. YOU WERE ASKING IF WE WERE CONFIDENTIAL -- COMFORTABLE WITH THAT LEVEL OF SERVICE AND ACKNOWLEDGING WE CANNOT FIX EVERYTHING FOR EVERYONE ALL THE TIME. I'M DEFINITELY LIKING THE LEVEL OF SERVICE THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT. ZERO, SIX AND NINE INCHES OF WATER. I WAS VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. THE SECOND THING THAT I SPENT A LITTLE TIME ON WAS THIS WHOLE PROJECT DEVELOPMENT ASSUMPTIONS. AND THERE WERE QUITE A FEW OF THE THINGS THAT I AGREED WITH 100% BUT THERE WERE SOME THINGS THAT I --DIDN'T AGREE WITH AND INTERESTINGLY I FEEL LIKE TWO OF MY COUNCILMEMBERS ALREADY KIND OF ADDRESSED THAT AS WELL, WHEN --WHERE WE MADE AN ASSUMPTION THAT WE WANT PARKS TO STAY GREEN, CONVERTING GREEN SPACE, NOT PROPOSED, I'M GOING TO AS I WALK THROUGH THIS SIX DIFFERENT PLANS, I'M GOING TO SUGGEST THAT I THINK THAT THERE MIGHT BE WAYS AND I'M NOT AN ENGINEER AND DON'T PRETEND TO BE, BUT I THINK THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOME WAYS THAT WE CAN USE SOME OF OUR PARKS TO BE HOLDING PONDS WHICH WOULD MAYBE PREVENT US FROM HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT CROSSING GULFPORT BOULEVARD AND EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT 100% AS GOOD AS IF THEY'RE CLOSE TO BEING AS GOOD AND IT WOULD CUT THE PRICE AND THE INCONVENIENCE OF HAVING OUR GULFPORT BOULEVARD TORE UP FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. I THINK IT WOULD BE WORTH CONSIDERING. AGAIN I'M NOT AN ENGINEER AND NOT TRYING TO BE. BUT I --I DEFINITELY WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT WAS THE ONE ASSUMPTION THAT I THOUGHT WAS MADE THAT I -- WOULDN'T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH OR BUY INTO. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OTHERS THINK ABOUT THAT. >> I MEAN, THAT'S WHY WE SHARE THEM. SO EVERYBODY CAN SEE HOW THE SAUSAGE IS MADE. >> I APPRECIATED THAT. THAT WAS THE FIRST COMMENT I WANTED TO SAY WAS THAT I DON'T THINK ALL PARKS HAVE TO BE NECESSARILY GREEN SPACE OR MAYBE I JUST SAID IT BACKWARDS. I DON'T THINK PARKS HAVE TO BE TOTALLY GREEN. I THINK WE COULD MAKE SOME WATER FEATURES IN OUR PARKS. WITH FREE WATER. OKAY. SO THEN WHEN I GO TO THE --I'M GOING TO CALL BMP MAP ONE. OKAY? SO I'M GOING TO GO IN ORDER JUMPING RIGHT TO THE PROJECTS AND NOT HOW THE REPORT WAS BROUGHT TO US. SO THE FIRST THING THAT I WANTED TO KNOW WAS, IN THE -- I HAVE ONLY LIVED HERE 15 YEARS. AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE FLOODING THAT WE RECENTLY HAD SO ONE OF MY FIRST QUESTIONS WAS HAVE WE HAS A PROBLEM GETTING OUR EMERGENCY VEHICLES OUT DUE TO FLOODING? AND I THINK THAT THE ANSWER ON THAT WAS NOT NECESSARILY BECAUSE WE ANTICIPATED AND MAYBE HAVE MOVED OUR VEHICLES FOUR TIMES IN THE LAST 20 YEARS? OKAY. SO IF THAT'S THE -- YOU KNOW, THAT KIND OF PUTS IT INTO PERSPECTIVE A LITTLE BIT AND THEN THE SECOND QUESTION THAT I ASKED WAS DID WE -- PRIOR TO THE STATE TELLING US TO SHUT DOWN EMERGENCY SERVICES BECAUSE THAT COMES WITH THESE STORMS --DID WE HAVE ANYBODY THAT NEEDED TO BE RESCUED THAT WERE NOT ABLE TO GET TO? AND I WAS TOLD NO BECAUSE WE ALSO HAVE THE AVAILABILITY OF BOATS. THAT HELPED ME LOOK AT THIS ONE A LITTLE BIT. WHAT I WAS NOT CLEAR IN LISTENING TO THE PRESENTATION A COUPLE OF TIMES AND THEN LOOKING AT THE MAP, WAS I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS WOULD GO DOWN 54th AND I UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, I HAVE SEEN THE CASCADING EFFECT DOWN 54th. I HAVE --I HAVE STOOD AT THE -- AT THE BAR AT O MATTY'S AND WATCHED THE WATER COME RUSHING DOWN. I ADMIT IT. FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES. >> EXACTLY. >> WHAT I WASN'T CLEAR ON WAS WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A PRICE LIKE $18.1 MILLION. ONE OF THIS THINGS YOU SAID ABOUT THIS WAS THAT IT HAS THE ABILITY TO INCLUDE EXPANSION ON 25th AVENUE. SO I DIDN'T KNOW IF THIS PRICE INCLUDED AN EXTENSION ON 25th AVENUE. OR YOU ARE JUST SAYING IT COULD BE DONE FOR FUTURE WITH ADDITIONAL FUNDS? YEAH, SO --THE AREAS THAT WE NOTED WERE EXPANSION IS THE OPPORTUNITIES ARE PRESENT THAT WAS NOT INCLUDED WITHIN THE COST. OKAY. AND THEN I WAS NOT CLEAR -- I DID HEAR YOU SAY THIS PARTICULAR ONE WOULD REDUCE SOME OF THE ATTAR -- WATER COMING DOWN 59th AND 27th. THAT AREA. I DID SEE THAT. >> IT WOULD NOT SOLVE THE ENTIRE PROBLEM. >> RIGHT. WOULDN'T SOLVE THE WHOLE THING. AND THEN I DIDN'T QUITE GET WHEN YOU SAID THE MAINTENANCE DREDGING WOULD BE REQUIRED TO MAINTAIN SUMP FALLOUT. WE JUST PUT THE NEW PIPE --NOT THAT WE HAVE RUN A WHOLE NEW PIPE BUT WE'RE FIXING THE INTERSECTION OF COURSE RIGHT NOW AT SHORE AND 54th. SO WE JUST PUT IN A MUCH, MUCH LARGER PIPE. SO ARE WE TALKING THAT WE WOULD START UP AROUND 25th AND RUN DOWN AND IT WOULD COME INTO THE NEW PIPE THAT WE JUST PUT IN OR WOULD WE HAVE ANOTHER HOLE RUN SEPARATE FROM WHAT WAS THERE? >> IT WOULD BE SEPARATE OR A REPLACEMENT. >> EITHER/OR. >> REPLACE THE PIPE WE GOSPORTS IN? >> NO. ALL WE DID WAS ONLY REPLACED THE SMALL PART OF IT AT THE END. >> LIKELY ANYTIME --IF SPACE PERMS, ANYTIME WE HAVE A PIPE AND WE'RE ADDING SOMETHING ELSE WE LIKE TO KEEP IT AND HAVE TWO. TWO IS BETTER THAN ONE-TYPE DEAL. CERTAINLY WE WOULD --IF THE PROJECT WAS PURSUED LOOK TO TRY TO KEEP EXISTING OUTFALLS IF WE CAN. ADD A SECOND ONE ON THE SAME LOCATION. >> CONVENTIONALLY SPEAKING YOU NEVER WANT TO TAKE AWAY THE OUTFALL. SO UNLESS THERE WAS A UNIQUE SITUATION, OR A SPACE RESTRICTION THAT WOULD NOT ALLOW FOR US TO PUT TWO IN THERE WHICH WE'RE NOT FORSEE -- FORESEEING AT THIS TIME. WE WOULD KEEP THAT IN THERE. AND REGARDING THE MAINTENANCE DREDGING, THE REASON WHY THAT WAS MENTIONED IS BECAUSE AS WE HAVE THESE LONG RUNS, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY WITH GRAVITY, YOU KEEP ON GETTING DEEPER AND DEEPER AND YOU ARE SLOPING DOWNWARDS TOWARDS THE WATER. OKAY. >> YOU KNOW, SO AS THE GRADE IS GETTING SHALLOW OR KIND OF SHALLOWER, YOU ARE GETTING DEEPER, YOU END UP TO A POINT TO WHERE IF YOU DIDN'T DO ANY KIND OF LIKE A SEDIMENT SUMP, THAT PIPE WOULD BE LIKE BELOW EVERYTHING. AND YOU'D BE LIKE YOU KNOW. ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS THAT --A LOT OF THESE LARGER OUTFALLS, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY DISCHARGE INTO AREAS THAT AREN'T LIKE BIG CHANNELS AND YOU NEEDS SOME TYPE OF MAINTENANCE DREDGING PROGRAM IN CONJUNCTION WITH THIS TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE MAINTAINING THE OUTFALL BECAUSE IT WILL FILL UP WITH SEDIMENT EITHER FROM THE WATER THAT'S COMING ON UPLAND OR TIDES BRINGING IT BACK TO IT. >> SO THE PIPE THAT COMES DOWN 54th WHERE WE HAD TO REPLACE THE END OF IT BECAUSE IT BLEW OUT DURING THE STORMS OKAY? HOW LONG OF A RUN IS THAT PIPE TODAY? WHERE DOES THAT START? >> I'D HAVE TO GET BACK WITH YOU ON THAT. I DON'T HAVE THAT IMMEDIATELY KNOWN. SO. >> I ASK THAT BECAUSE THAT'S TINE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT COMING IN BELOW GRADE NOW. THAT IS -- SO IT MUST BE A SHORTER RUN. >> WITHOUT --YOU KNOW, PROBABLY GO BACK AND HAVE TO PUT MY FOOT IN MY MOUTH. BUT YEAH I THINK IT'S A SHORTER RUN REALLY IN THE AREA I DON'T RECALL A LOT OF LARGER COLLECTION SEASONALS OR LET'S SAY LONG EXPANSIVE COLLECTION SYSTEMS. >> SO THEN I'M GOING TO GO OUT ON A LIMB AND YOU KNOW I MIGHT GET HUNG. BUT WHEN I LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RUNNING THIS DOWN 54th. OKAY? WHICH IS DOGGONE CLOSE TO BEACH. AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT STARTING IT AT 25th WHICH IS DOGGONE CLOSE TO CLIMBER PARK, I CAN'T HELP BUT WONDER IF WE COULDN'T TAKE SOME OF THE WATER AND THAT IS WHERE I WAS SAYING THAT I'M QUESTIONING SOME OF THE ASSUMPTIONS. I'M NOT SURE THAT SOME OF THIS WATER AND THAT I WOULDN'T BE IN FAVOR OFFTAKING SOME OF THIS WATER OVER TO CLIMBER PARK AND MAKING IT A BEAUTIFUL WATER AREA AND WITH THE NATIVE PLANTS. AND WITH THE WALKWAYS OVER IT, WITH THE BRIDGE. AND YOU KNOW, A VERY MANICURED AREA THAT'S GOING TO HOLD WATER FOR US. SOME PEOPLE, I UNDERSTAND, JUST LIKE THE OPEN SPACE AND I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THE OPEN SPACE. BUT IF I HAD TO MAKE A DECISION, BETWEEN HAVING -- KEEPING THAT OPEN SPACE OR TRYING TO ALLEVIATE FLOODING INTO MY RESIDENTS HOMES, THAT'S AN EASY DECISION FOR ME. SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S POSSIBLE. BUT I LOOK AT CLIMBER PARK AND I LIKE THE FACT THAT IT'S OPEN. BUT I DON'T SEE IT AS --THAT NECESSARILY HOLDING WATER TO ME WOULDN'T NECESSARILY BE A NEGATIVE. I MEAN, WE ALREADY HAVE SWELLS HOLDING WATER BETWEEN 23rd AND 24th. I KNOW BETWEEN 24th AND 25th SOME WATER WILL ACCUMULATE DURING THE STORMS AND IT ALL GOES AWAY BY ITSELF. YOU KNOW? I'M NOT SO SURE THAT I WOULDN'T LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING IF I HAD A CONSENSUS AMONG COUNCIL WHERE WE LOOKED INTO THAT POSSIBILITY. WHETHER -- THAT COULD SAVE US SOME MONEY BECAUSE YOU KNOW, SHORTER RUNS. I DON'T KNOW. I WANTED TO THROW THAT OUT THERE. THEN WHEN I GET TO BMP TWO AND IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF YOU DID PUT UP THOSE SLIDES. I'M GOING TO GO RIGHT IN ORDER. THANK YOU. THIS ONE FOR ME WAS PROBABLY -- ONE OF THE MOST TROUBLESOME TO REALLY FIGURE OUT WHAT THE MAP WAS TELLING ME. YOU KNOW WHEN I GOT BLOWN UP -- THE VISIONS I COULD SEE WHERE THE YELLOW STARTED. BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW THE WATER IS GETTING TO THE YELLOW PIPING. AND THEN HERE'S A DISADVANTAGE TOO. I JUST WANT TO SAY JUST WITH THE PRESENTATION. I HAVE BEEN BEHIND THE GATE AND THE COUNTRY CLUB TWICE IN 15 YEARS SO WHEN YOU WERE REFERRING TO THE LAND BRIDGE AND BOX CULVERTS THE POND, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE THOSE THINGS ARE. SO IT WAS VERY CONFUSING. AND THEN I THOUGHT THE MAP WOULD HELP ME. BUT IT DIDN'T HELP ME VERY MUCH AS WELL. SO IF MAYBE RIGHT NOW IF YOU COULD JUST TELL ME WHERE DOES THE WATER -- WHAT CONNECTS THIS NEW YELLOW LINE THAT I'M SEEING ON HERE, WHAT CONNECTS TO THAT? WHERE? AND -- >> A GENERAL SENSE, JUST TO KIND OF ORIENT EVERYBODY, WHAT WE'RE SHOWING, YOU CAN SEE THE ROAD AND YOU CAN SEE GULFPORT BOULEVARD TO WHERE IT TAKE THE BEND AND IT HEADS NORTH. THERE'S A NEGATIVE 2.39 OVER TOP OF THE TREED AREA AND THAT'S A NODE REDUCTION. ESSENTIALLY THAT MEANS THAT IMPLEMENT PROJECT X, YOU GET THIS MUCH AMOUNT OF WATER REDUCTION. SO THAT'S WHAT ALL THOSE MINUSES MEAN. >> WE'RE TRYING --SO THE YELLOW PIPE --PIPING THAT WE'RE SEEING IS TO REDUCE THE WATER COLLECTING AT THE MINUS 2.39? >> WELL, SO --LET ME KIND OF ORIENT REAL QUICK. I APOLOGIZE. NO, YOU ARE FINE. AND SO RIGHT NOW, WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT THE WATER THAT COMES FROM, YOU KNOW, THAT BIG PYCC BASIN THAT WE TALKED ABILITY --ABOUT. IT GOES INTO THE MARSH AREA. LET'S SAY A NONDEFINED PONDS. RIGHT NEXT TO THE GUARD SHACK. FROM THERE IT GOES INTO FOUR CMP PIPES THAT THE CITY OWNS THAT GOES ACROSS THE GOLF COURSE. THAT WAS LINED TWO, THREE YEARS AGO I'D SAY. FROM THERE THERE'S A PRIVACY WALL THAT SEPARATES THE ROAD FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD BEHIND IT. RIGHT BEHIND THAT WALL IS LIKE A --8 BY 22-FOOT -- 8-FOOT WIDE BY 22-FOOT LONG STRUCTURE THAT WE BUILT BACK IN LIKE I WANT TO SAY THE --AROUND 2012, 2015. THAT WAS ONE --THAT TAKES THE FOUR CMP PIPES THAT GOES ACROSS AND IT CONVERTS IT ALL TO LIKE A BOX CULVERT. THINK OF BIG RECTANGULAR PIPE. >> CAN YOU SHOW US ON THERE? >> I'M SORRY, COULD YOU JUST USE THE MOUSE AND JUST POINT TO WHERE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT? >> OKAY. WE'LL SEE OKAY. MY MOUSE RIGHT HERE. SO WE TALKED ABDOMEN THE FOUR MCPs THAT GO ACROSS HERE. >> DO THAT AGAIN BECAUSE WITHOUT THE MOUSE, I -- >> REALLY DON'T KNOW. >> THE FOUR C MP THAT HAS GO ACROSS THE GOLF COURSE. >> CMPs? ANOTHER ACRONYM. CORRUGATED METAL PIPES. SO -- >> THOSE ARE THINGS THAT YOU TYPICALLY DO NOT WANT IN YOUR SYSTEM. OR IF YOU GOT TO KEEP THEM YOU LINE THEM AND THAT'S WHAT THE CITY DID ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO. THEN IN-BETWEEN THOSE HOMES THESE CMP PIPES OR THE METAL PIPES WERE FAILING SO THE CITY REPLACED EVERYTHING IN-BETWEEN THESE HOMES AND CONSTRUCTED A BOX CULVERT AND THAT WAS DONE LET'S SAY ABOUT A DECADES AGO. GIVE OR TAKE. SO ESSENTIAL -- FROM THERE IT GOES IN-BETWEEN -- IN-BETWEEN THIS LITTLE CHANNEL AND IT GOES IN THIS LITTLE MANGROVE LOWLAND AREA. UNTIL IT EVENTUALLY FLOWS OUT INTO THIS CANAL. SO THAT'S THE EXISTING CONFIGURATION OR THAT'S HOW THE WATER KIND OF MIGRATES THROUGH THE GOLF COURSE NOW. AND IN THE PROPOSED PROJECT WHAT WE WOULD DO. AGAIN WE TALKED EARLIER ABOUT NEVER REMOVING APIPE IF WE DON'T HAVE TO. WE WANT TO ADD. >> IT WOULD BE USING BOTH SYSTEMS. >> YEAH. SO WE WOULD USE BOTH SYSTEMS AND THIS IS MORE OR LESS, YOU KNOW, ALMOST THINK OF IT LIKE SIGH UPONNING OFF WATER DURING A HEAVY STORM EVENT. WHAT THIS WOULD DO IS RATHER THAN TAKE THE CONVENTIONAL PATH OF GOING IN-BETWEEN THE HOMES AND GOING THROUGH THE MANGROVE AREA, AND OUT HERE, THAT ESSENTIALLY BYPASSES THAT WHOLE ENTIRE CONFIGURATION AND MAKES A BEELINE RIGHT FOR THE BAY. AND THEN ALSO, WE HAVE THIS AREA HERE. THERE'S THIS SYSTEM HERE. HERE'S WOOD IBIS PARK. AND HERE'S --ACTUALLY RIGHT THERE IS THAT LOW HOUSE THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOU