Special Investigatory Committee on JEA

>> Good afternoon. I'm me. Call to order the Special Investigative Committee on J. A let me begin by introductions and I'll make some opening comments and they will get started. Let me start from a far left. >> Pine Hampson Council research, very stuff. Plus office of General Counsel Ryan Parks counselor's office. Kim Taylor Council auditor is until council secretary. Good afternoon Reid. I'm in District 13, the beach. >> Ron Salem group to a large JaCoby Pittman, D*** strict head Kevin Carrico district 4 Michael Boylan district 6. I'm just visiting, gotten 2 o'clock PSU meetings ongoing hangar in for as long as I can. Thank you. Matt carlucci had large group or thank you, everyone, Mr. President you have any opening comments or anything, OK, what I do. >> But I'd like to do today is keep the dialogue between the committee Councilmember Diamond myself and Ms Pittman at the end. If we have some time at the end, we will lot sometime to any non-members to ask questions or make any comments they would like to make. So I think that's the best way to do this. Let me go through some issues before we get to testimony first, let me go to the council orders for an update on the capacity fee issue Ms Taylor. >> Yes, sir, through the chair, the committee and just to let you know that we have had multiple meetings, my staff, Mr, Parks and the other employee within our office, which personnel probably upwards of over 10 meetings to get an understanding of the process, treating it like an audit, but just for our purposes and being able to talk to the committee review. But process was trying to do our normal, get the understanding of everything that's going on over there process. Why so? We can understand what initial fees, because keep in mind of somebody in order to determine those initial in the charge of the committee, the additional charges, we've got to get an understanding from very old records of what initial capacity charges were pay because they may have Payton to development, so to speak at the start. So trying to do all that we've met with the office of General Counsel, Mr. Fact, learn Mr. Rheingold 2 times to have meeting get an understanding of some of the legal questions that we have. So we're continuing that process and will continue working through and to try to get an understanding of everything that we can related to this in order to complete the charge. Hopefully that's our goal, depending on some of the records that we can get that are quite old. We'll discuss that as we start getting 3, that that that that's a brief update for you. >> Mr. Taylor, you're still going through Mr. Fact, Alert to get to Regina Ross. Is that correct? Yes, sir. That's correct. Let me just mentioned there is a committee meeting tomorrow that I've asked to Mr to yield to a 10 where the issue of her privilege is going to be discussed by the board of JTA. And I thought it would be helpful if we had some representation there. I'm hopeful that we can get some limited privileged testimony from her, particularly on the capacity fees and in some sense, the culture issues without revealing any secret information of JTA. But that will be up to the board, too, to decide. And we'll see where that goes. Ok, update on requests for information from from JTA Human Resources, Councilmember Pittman. I spoke to Diane Moser. She received our request. She was very appreciative that we gave her 30 days to complete it. I don't see any issue that we won't have that information and side of 30 days. So I will keep you posted as soon as I received something okay. >> Anything else that we have councilmember dime. >> Thank you. March air. So just I think everybody saw in the the news this morning that there is a state attorney from state attorney Melissa Nelson subpoena out to Jay. And so the issue is Mr. Chair back when we did the first JTA sick. The federal prosecutor, Tyson Duvall called me as the chair and said, hey, don't talk about this. Don't ask about this. Leave those for us. And I said absolutely. Okay. So I you know, I ask you how we we have guidance on this point from the state attorney. >> In fact, I called the state attorney this morning. I'm sure they have indicated they want to open dialogue between the sick and their office, but they put absolutely no restrictions on ice continuing our process. So we will continue as we are today. >> Ok, and just anybody listening at home, there's like many levels of investigations that can happen. And so on the state level, councilman ceiling is talking about the state attorney. I've also had conversations with the statewide prosecutors office who also said they're looking in at J a and said that again, same thing, no restrictions, just do whatever you need to do. And so that's out there. The other interesting thing about the state attorney subpoena that I read this morning is that it asked for text messages and all sorts of stuff, J going back to last summer, however, and I promise I'm not picking choosing between news agencies, but if you watch some of the action new stuff, they were talking about tax that go to January 2025. Related to the Ballard contract and potential, you know, influence in about a contract in 2025. Cent for the state attorney. She's listening. Your subpoena seems to be a few months short. You need to go all the way back to January 2025. If you're going to capture what was covered by that agency. >> Mr. De Salvo. Would you like to come up here? You swear you in, sir, do you solemnly swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth and the penalties of perjury. I thank you, sir. Okay. Mister DeSalvo was asked for 12 minutes. My go over a minute or so so we would set the clock for that and for his opening statement, please go ahead, Sir. >> Okay, chairman, can you'll hear me? Yes, we can. Re Chairman Salem and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. Based on recent news report and this committee's charge, I'm here today to share with you for aspects of gays, culture process demonstrates J yeas commitment to its core mission, to provide safe, reliable and affordable utility services to our community. First aspect, working for our community every day JTA is a complex operation. Executive level decisions involve millions or tens of millions of dollars and consequences for our customers. Our work environment can be intense. But as professional and driven, Jay-Z leaders seek excellence in themselves and in the J a team that is a J, a work environment. Second aspect, the appropriate process, capacity fees beyond the initial capacity charges in any large customers pay is both an individual contract issue between J A and it's affected customers. Any policy decision for J a JTA addresses. These matters in an appropriate way when both the history and future ramifications for customers and J a there are no rush decisions but a diligent effort to achieve the best result for all involved. That is a process. Jayson Cajun now on the capacity fee manner aspect, clear decision-making in any need in any matter were legal counsel, aside discussions with attorneys involving critical analysis of what has been done and sometimes difficult decisions on what needs to be done in the future. These discussions often revolve around uncertain outcomes where the risk and benefit these decision is wade to achieve the best overall result to support Je a mission. These discussions with legal counsel are subjected to attorney client privilege to both JTA and its lawyers can speak freely and engage an appropriate discussion aimed at allowing J to make the mess the best ultimate decision, understanding all facts, risks and potential outcomes. Waive an attorney client privilege and exposing these discussions without context can do never double hard to JTA in his decision-making process. You can develop excuse me, it can't evolve decision making into a word parsing and political gamesmanship. Instead, any decision on waiving attorney client privilege will be handled in a thoughtful and deliberate way by the JTA Board. The JTA Board is to hear a recommendation on this and it's April 14th Workshop. Based on that, the J Board will make a reasoned well consider decision and then 4th aspect, cooperation in pursuit for the best path forward. I'm here today is a member of the JTA board. The board will cooperate with the city Council and its pursuit of finding the best path forward for Jay on these and all issues where that pursuit is grounded in facts, thoughtful analysis and decision-making that is focused on meeting J is mission doing what is right for J and customers. This community and Jay-Z employees is a commitment that I personally know each member. The JTA Board shares on that basis. I pledge my cooperation with City Council and having JTA made its mission of approving the lives and building community through its safe, reliable and affordable provision of utility services and allegations regarding work environment, the and supported and wrongful characterization of J is workplace in some areas as toxic is not consistent with the operational realities and the data JTA employs approximately 2200 individuals. This committee has indicated to 12 employees have come forward with concerns that represents roughly one in every 184 employees hardly indicative of a systemic condition or organizational culture. That is problematic. Jta safety records unmatched by any other public utility. Currently we're on a streak of 2 million hours without a safety incident. That is a reflection of attention to detail standing supervision, not low morale JTA employee average retention rate over the past years. But 98%. Jay received the building strong communities ward from the Florida Municipal Electric Association for Making Valuable Investment that enhance the quality of life for the Jacksonville community. 3 consecutive years. Jay, a sweet services named one of the 100 best weeks in the Americas by the National Association of Fleet Administrators. Jay is managing director and CEO Vicki Katie was recognized among Florida's trends, top 500 highlighting the most influential executives and different in different economic cessar sectors. Across Florida, the full Moon cut project is evidence that constructive collaboration between independent authorities in this case Jaxport NJ a city council and the mayor's administration can work together to execute a project that will significantly positively impact our city's economy. This is the relationship our community expects. These achievements are hallmarks of a team hitting the mark. Now what has been described and unsupported accusations. This committee is appear to rely on outreach. 2 former employees, former employees, perspectives can be informative. They must be evaluated carefully by definition. Such a pool can disproportionately include individuals who departed under adverse circumstances, selectively ample, find these voices without context risk creating a skewed and unreliable narrator. The surgeons that employees are scared to death or serious, but they must be supported by credible representative evidence today. That standard is not been met, but JTA has processes and procedures in place to address such concerns. Disagreements, scrutiny of professional tension, particularly around legal financial and operational decisions are indicators of an engaged organization working through complex issues. On 2 occasions, a member of the board of the JTA Board has recently recommended a more appropriate path forward allowing JTA is established internal governance, compliance and human resource process is to evaluate these claims. Jay is governance structure is specifically designed to investigate address and remediate such concerns. An affair structured unlikely sound manner and the additional capacity fees. It is critical to clarify the facts regarding additional capacity fees. Algae. A commercial customers pay for monthly service and system capacity. Their service utilizes through the monthly another J fees and charges for service. The issue and urge a review relates only to an additional capacity charge associated with increased usage over time. Not Baseline Service or initial connection fees. The situation involving the Mayo Clinic reference and some news accounts highlights the complexity of legacy accounts. Mail service relationship predates Jay-Z's assumption of the system in 1997 and involves historical agreement and infrastructure established decades. Earlier in 2022, J appropriately identified an increased usage of the male campus could born additional capacity charges. Male disputed that obligation based on his interpretation of a 1986 agreement. This miss alignment led to ongoing discussion and different legal analysis. Precisely the type of issue that requires careful, deliberate resolution, not rushed judgment and policy considerations for other customers in similar situations and the cost burden on all commercial customers needs to be carefully considered rather than selectively enforcing charges partaking in consistent action JTA appropriately pause resolution with any single customer in order to develop a fair uniform and legally Sound program applicable also were situated customers that is responsible governance. That is leadership, folks. Sanjay A's mission to building community through its utility services. The JTA board will participate in a deep dive session is part of our rate hearing workshop tomorrow. And again, it's a public session. 3rd on the proposed waiver of attorney client privilege, potentially undermining this prudent, responsible governance, AJ, a political push for the JTA board to waive attorney client privilege in order to further work in order to further the work of this committee of the City Council, attorney client privilege is not a procedural technicality is a foundational legal protection that ensures public entities can obtain candid, legal advice, fully assess risk and comply with their obligations under the law. The committee has sought waiver out of an abundance of caution to excess legal guidance and internal deliberations. However, compelling are pressuring such a waiver sets a dangerous precedent. It risk politicizing legal advice and impairing the ability of council to provide independent and unfiltered guidance. The JTA board will participate in a deep dive session on this topic as part of a rate hearing tomorrow. Again, that's a public session worth and Jay-Z, independent structure. It's also important to emphasize that Jay is by design, an independent entity within the consolidated government of the city of Jacksonville. Its governance framework was intentionally structured to allow for operational independence, professional management and decision making insulated from shifting political pressures. Jay-z operations are significant multi billion dollar business and it consulting and the consolidated cities forefathers saw the need to run it like a business and limit the influence of politics. That independence is not incidental. It is foundational to Jay is ability to reliably deliver essential utility services to the community, uphold the du Chien area responsibilities and comply with legal and financial obligations, including bond covenants efforts that undermined or circumvent this governance structure risk eroding the very framework that is unable JTA to function effectively respecting that independence includes allowing allowing Jays established processes to operate as intended, particularly in the areas involving personnel matters. Legal review, internal compliance. In conclusion, the record of supported facts and achievements show utility confronting a complicated decade spanning issue with diligence and care, not avoidance. It shows professionals engaging in decision making that is sometimes difficult and always focus and achieving the mission of JTA. It also shows the JTA has internal structures, expertise and governors mechanisms necessary to evaluate and address employees concerns responsibly consistent with its role as an independent entity designed to operate with professional autonomy. At the same time, this special investigation process raises serious questions about neutrality methodology and purpose. These continue. So thank you, Sir. Jh responsibilities operate lawfully fairly and in the best interest of its customers not to respond to narrate is that are unsupported by data are shaped by external conclude considerations. Thank you. I'm prepared to answer your questions. >> Thank you. I just got a couple things I want to address. I'm an elect. Councilman Diamond began with questions. First of all. >> Mr. Some who was chairing that meeting 2 more that'll be MG or under the current energy or under. Okay. We'll have to follow up with MJ on a on an issue. Then number 2, Mr. To when you update us on the survey, I meant to do that prior to Mr. De Silva as comments and let me begin by saying Mr. Tillis worked tirelessly with May last week on getting this survey set up. So Mr. Till thank you for that. >> Here's a chair to chair the committee. >> And so we did is we reached out to the respondents when the city put out a solicitation for Peggy said been survey and that resulted in 3 companies that that replied. And so in reviewing the response is in discussions with those 3 companies we've selected and you'll see actually for introduction tomorrow night, some legislation to authorize the council president to execute a contract. The company calls a secure link and for selection like sorry. And that company has got a lot of government experience. They've actually dealt with the surveys employee satisfaction surveys with the Orange County School District in Florida. So, gosh, we got some some direct Florida experience, but they've agreed to and that the price of the quarter, the U.S. is $9,250 to do the full survey. And what that does is it authorizes a complete survey of the selection of individuals that the JTA has given us along with some additional names of folks that that have been brought to our attention and a little bit about selection like they are an offshoot of Gallup polling. And so we've got a long history of being involved in these types of Endeavour's. But Selection Lanka's is their employees satisfaction survey group, but they will start with a Templet of questions that they've that they've used in these types of situations that allow us to fully Taylor those questions for dealing with the specific issues. There will both consist of ratings type of questions like how would you rate it on a scale of one to 5, for example. But they'll also have open-ended questions so that people can feel free to add whatever comments that they want. They'll the survey will stay open. Approximately 2 to 3 weeks will send a reminder emails to those employees who haven't yet responded so that there will be follow-up in terms of the anonymity component of it. They will send each employee and individualize link and that employee can send it from their J E Mail to their phone or send it to their personal email. They can access it that way. If if they have some concerns about about how they want to do that. And so have indicated that they have no problem at all being able to meet the committee's deadline to be able to have the survey results back to the committee in plenty of time to meet your your June 30th deadline to report in on this topic. They will collect some demographic data in terms of, you know, how long have you worked a JTA? What are your types of duties? You know, those kinds of things to be able to sort, if you will, are your current employer, your former employee, you know, for example. And so they'll be able to to include that information and that it will include their this price includes a presentation. And so they will have their analytics person. They've got a phd's. And, you know, that's tough to be able to evaluate the data and they'll have their rather they're they're that person will be able to present, make a presentation to the Sikh community in terms of the results they do offer. I don't know if this new committee is interested in, but they do offer the ability to provide suggestions, depending on the results of this, that gets into the issue of what this committee committee can do in terms of JTA managing its a its CEO or anybody else on their on theirs management staff. So that Mr. Chair is my presentation. Was anybody has any questions? I think that should cover it. >> I make just a few comments. I asked Jodi Brooks for the managers and above that work in the JTA headquarters building that's around 140 people that will receive the survey. Those people that have contacted me or others that are no longer working at J E that want to participate in the survey will be handled separately. We will get those results separately from the active employees at J A and we're going to attempt to support. We will as a part of the survey get some indication of the amount of interaction the employee has would miss Kva support of the results week. We get a feel for that as well. Mr. Teal does act. That cover will pretty much everything OK? >> As I said, I'm not we're not going to recognize any non-committee members until the end. >> Number 2, I have invited Ms KB to be are to come to our next meeting for testimony. I asked her to respond, but 1 o'clock today, Mr. Chill. Did you get a response, Mr. Chairman, I didn't get a response, Mr. Diamond. >> It's just my view things. I might suggest that we you know, we talked like Judy Brooks. And if you these dying Moser in a few of these other folks first, because it that at some point, the co have to come here, she's required by statute. So there's no question eventually Ms Katie's going to be here. I personally I'd rather have a few more folks, but tell us what's going on. And I'd like to get some reports back on the things is Jacoby is worried about before she's here. I mean, it seems like we want to call again, OK, Mr to would use. Would you extend an invitation to both? >> I think Miss Brooks missed Mosher it to good people to bring in see who's available for our next meeting. And I would schedule the other one for the meeting after that. It's there and let's move forward that way, Mr. Chairman, you have a preference for which one comes in. First another. We're waiting on Ms Mosher to give information respond. I would I would hold on this. Orgeron told Mr. Pittman's information is available to us. So I probably bring in Ines Brooks first, sir. Okay, Miss Pittman. You're in the queue. >> First of all, to the chair. I want to thank you, Mr. Salvo for making your presentation today. I guess what my concerns are that you represent the board and not the entire staff, right. And I know you mentioned about previous surveys a know your role is to have oversight to the governance and the policy directions and not the day today concerns of management and employees. So I know you can you know, you can speak to the actions and the decisions and organizational roles. And I guess, you know, my concern is and which I've said, you know, my space here is to be a voice for the employees and my conversations that I've had with past employees. So to me, to be able to have the the JTA executive leadership or someone from the union or employees themselves, once they feel comfortable in coming forward, I would feel a lot more comfortable. >> You know, what's what's important to me is that I want to make sure there is a an insurance that you could give me and or the leadership team that today that the voices are heard from the employees and you know, and it's and it's meaningful and is visible and somethign could be done about it. That's my space on this committee and to be able to talk to people who have left Jay and a management position to just hear some of the things that they Arsene is pretty much in line what the existing employees are saying. And so I don't want you to think is just 12 people. There's just other people that are afraid to say anything. And I will say some of them are colleagues of mine are people that I've done work with the projects with. So as I want you to know, is just not the 12 people. You know, they have to have some type of protection right now. There's a there's a lot of moving parts. So what you reported today and what we discussed. And and so I just want to be open because, you know, I'm an employee in and I know something was going down with the city. I want to be able to Cher was really going on. And so, you know, from a high level, you are high level, but we have to make sure that we Todd the people on the front line to hear what they got to say because I think that's important and JTA has done a great job in this community. I've been involved in projects with them over the years. >> But >> from what I'm hearing, it's always been an issue, but no one has ever vocalized it because they didn't want any repercussions. So all I'm saying for you, as the chair is to make sure that you talk to your leadership team and the leadership team as it trickles down to the employees to make sure that they're just not a number to make sure what they say matter and is just this became an opportunity for more people to say and to share. So I just want you to know my position and I stand on this committee is that I care about the people. Thank you. And that, you know, you can comment on that as well because I know that you're not deep in the weeds that your your position is more capacity building with other board members it into making sure that the work in and the budget in the direction that Jay is going. Would you like to comment on that? >> Sherwood in and I appreciate your genuine concern. Councilmember Pittman on the the employees, J employees and and I share your same passion to down to the men and women out on the streets daily. 24 7 to an electric, the water and wastewater without a doubt. And I'll just say sure, whatever there's issues that surface, they should I be be looked into. And I'm just saying I'm very confident in the process as JTA has in place to looking at those to make sure those voices are heard. And I'm I'm I'm very confident that they can do and do that for the benefit of those folks. But I I share your passion and thank you for that. >> Thank you. I'm now going to ask Councilmember Diamond to start the questioning. I may ask him to jump in at some point, but anything he doesn't ask. It'll come to that that I have. And then we'll go to Miss Pittman Councilmember Dime. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm just going to say this the first time through the chair to General DiSalvo. Can we assume the rest, the laser, the chair? That's right. And first of all, sir, thank you for being here. You're retired. G you've got better things to do than be here on Monday afternoon. Trade, Brady fishing are making lots of money with a defense contractor is something that you're here. You served for years honorably on this board and for free. It's not like we're paying you. So I think you remember when you got appointed the we were just going through the nightmare of the last a scandal and the intern higher board got wiped out and we populated with new people. And we are very careful. I think the mayor was and the council and getting a good forward. And I really felt like we were doing really well for a while. And then last like 3 months, I feel we hit some rocks. And I think the purpose of this committee is to kind of figure out what's going on just like time out what's happening over J. >> One of the worst things that I have to do in this jobs. I have to ask questions with all these reporters with all these people with I guarantee you. >> Hundreds of JTA employees watching right now where I would much rather ask you questions in person and just sit down and say, can you help me understand this? Can you help me understand that? That's my preference. You don't get that option. Sunshine requires us to do it like this. And so a couple of these are awkward. And there's a couple of questions I have that honestly don't ask. And but there's people keep asking about staff. And I'd rather just let's just ask the question and get it off the table like we did in the last committee, sometimes just get some sunshine on and then we move on. Fair enough are also know your reputation is important to you and you swore an oath. And so I'm going to be super careful with my questions. If I asked a bad question, were you understand what I'm saying? Please let me know, because the last thing I want is to have with since all this is recorded and there's record that that you don't feel like you have and what you meant to say on the record and then to if if we go down a road in the something you want to fix or you want to add context of some fun with that, this is not antagonistic. I think people need to understand especially our folks to JTA people watching at home. We're not in the fight here. This is not it's not a game. We're on the same team. We all want J a to have low rates. Happy customers happy employees were on the same page. I think we're trying to get to a through this trauma so we can't get to the other end of this so we can all feel comfortable. Fair enough. Okay. All right. So let me let me get rolling here. First of all, thank you for the opening statement. I soon people help you with that. Not because you're not intelligent, but it was just a very lawyerly and there did you write all by yourself or somebody help you? I did it with myself and some other people who all helped you other people. Can you tell me who they are? You know, it's on me there. The big guy came to help you. >> You're literally not going to tell me who helped with your opening statement. I don't understand why need to read my comments. You're ready. Are you heard my Steven excuse me? So what's it matter? It's a product of me was some help and I'll leave it at that. Okay. Let's pause here for a minute. Do you recognize that we have an oversight function over jail. You're OK and were elected to represent the people. You recognize the people. Jacksonville owns a yes. How else the people of Jacksonville supposed to know what's going on with that board if they're elected representatives, don't ask these types of questions. Not sure what. That's why I'm here to answer your questions. Okay. Well, let me ask you this. I can dance or every question I have it or you have a filter in your mind what you think it's fair or not fair to ask, please ask away. And if there's something I feel it's not right. Be sure to let you know. But I'm here to answer your questions. So right at the box, you won't tell me who help you draft your opening statement and mature. Like what relevance is it? I'm taking accountability for that statement. I think that's enough. >> Sure, I think would be interesting if Vicky Haigh to help you if you do not okay, I think would be helpful to know whether or not general counsel have to write it. No, they did not. I'll move on even on the board for how long, sir? 6 years. And you're chair for how long? 2 years? You no longer chair, correct? >> Yet as in if I could make a just for councilwoman to put money. Yes, so I'm not sure right now. That is and the order just to understand that. >> Okay. As board chair or as a board member, you're getting briefings regularly. Is that fair to say? How often are you getting pretty things. >> So with committee work, we usually had one type of committee once a month and then Jay board meetings once a month. So probably 2 times a month. Twice a month. >> Yeah. And then. >> You live in Jacksonville's. Alright, sure to one of the questions I didn't want to ask that people buy me about this so many times. I mean asking anyways, I do have a job outside of the state of Florida last year or gig of some sort. >> Yeah, I have a work with the University of Maine. >> How many days approximately where you're not in the state of Florida last year. >> For months it was the let's see here now the spring semester. I'm sorry. The fall semester from August to December. >> Okay. So has the January. I'm sorry. Okay. And the end of August. Quite frankly. Okay. So kind of August through December. You are in Maine. Yeah. And I would come back here for meetings. Gotcha. You flew back for the board meetings. Did you see on the other ones and the briefings? >> I did the preparatory sessions via zoom. It was pretty physically present for the board meetings. Tracking answer questions that you pay for your own transportation are going to pay for that. No, no. That was on me for that between main and that. Oh, yeah, no. I think that was on my own. Thank you chair and I. >> You mentioned in your opening statement, there's no mystery as to kind of like what triggered all this. But I'm gonna ask each bucket just so I understand when you first aware that there is like allegations, I'm not saying the truth. Just like when did you first hear there was allegations about toxic leadership by J? >> Yeah. First heard it. The looking right now, 11 March when the special investigatory committee had there press conference announcing the formation of this committee and the reasons why. >> Okay, that was first time and then Matthew her that did you do any an independent investigation into just the toxic leadership part of that? >> That's when it are. And I'm looking at my notes here. Yeah, that's when Weast I'm sorry. Let me back up. I first became aware of the allegations of the toxicity and racism. I believe it was the 20 of the February where shortly after that 17 February when the a city council president's tax, I came out in the press and then shortly afterward a response on the allegation talk says toxicity. So I say that because then that issue was discussed at the 24 February board meeting. >> Roger, Okay. So just said I had this right. Did you become aware of the allegations about toxic work environment and racism at the same time or did you learn about them differently? >> A different times at the same time. >> And you talk about this in your opening statement to talk about capacity fees. When did you first hear that? There was like an issue with me or anybody else about capacity fees? >> Yeah. For a call. It was January. So when I first heard about it, I believe this year. >> Yes, that's and then there's been a lot of talk about this Ballard contract. I'm sure you've heard about that. >> You know, I've heard a lot from my reading, but quite honestly, I know like less than 0, 0, 0, 1%, of what it's about an affair enough. >> When did you when did you first hear about it that there is an issue? >> It was Mid-January when and actually write about it in the press was the first time I got any indication of it. >> And then the combined cycle plant has been kind of a rumbling issue for a long time. If you've been taking briefings on like the combined cycle plant for like a long time. >> Yes, that started when we did our irp like 3 years ago. So it's been an issue front and center for a long time, probably since you've been on the board. >> Right? Well, not the first year. Like I said, the first 2 years. Not really. But then 3 on yes. >> Got it. Okay. Then just going back to toxic leadership. When you when you hear about Councilman Carrico Council present characterize tweet, it gets in the press. Did you do any independent like research? Did you go and ask people? Is there any truth to this? >> Absolutely. And by yeah, now I'm not going to say it was all encompassing that. And I've said this before. I think folks have heard it live right in Jacksonville, Springfield, district. So I see a lot of the folks out lot of the JTA employees out there day in and day out and even before this recent issue of toxicity in racism, I always ask him how are things going and you know the deal when you somebody on the ground, you know, doing the grunt work, essentially, they'll give it to you unfiltered. And of course, I'm always going to hear about, well, I dispatch my vehicle in the guy before me use that didn't top it off or whatever your is gonna hear that stuff. It's another house, Maryland on that kind of stuff. And not one time had the issue popped up of any toxicity or racism or anything. You'll have general complaints again about not being topped off, but generally I saw them around great. >> I'm tracking OK, and so I didn't like talking to some folks. Who did you talk to you about toxic leadership after you heard about this due to check in with? >> Well, of course, I asked PK be. And then I asked a senior leadership that became a point of discussion. Kurt Wilson and I had a discussion on the 18th of February and he he told you about that it at the last meeting. And then when that session, I just listen to him. I didn't really say anything. And I simply ask, okay, why am I now just hearing about this now? And quite frankly, I really didn't get a an answer. The other thing, too, is when you know, there are serious allegations when you start getting the anonymous emails were letters to the board members and I've seen those in the past. I did not see any it all over the past year. Anything having to do with taxes this year, racism and normally you're going to see something like that in an obvious, you know, nature for letters to the board. I don't recall any. >> And then with regard to like the racism allegations, did you do it? We doing at the same time when you're asking folks back toxicity, kind of asking, is there any truth to this or to do that differently than the toxic work environment? >> I I I said toxicity, skinny toxicity and discrimination racism. >> I'm trackign. Okay. So in your opening statement you said 3 times that the allegations were. >> A quote, unsupported, unquote. What would what would what would cross that line when you think an allegation is sufficient enough to warrant a board investigation? >> I would say once the processes are in place to see if there's any validity. And so that said, that's what Jayson the process of doing. So before we jump to conclusions, let's see if saying things out there. If it's a valid and we'll find out what the process is that we're using within JTA in by process. As you Meet H R HR were also light doing a fact. We already had a survey in the works before any of this stuff started before the SEC was formed as during employment gauge. One survey which I believe goes out next week, I think and bottom line, the purpose of that survey is to find out what's good, what's bad, Whitney, 6, what what? What do you need to sustain what you need to improve it? So we'll see what that says. And then in addition as part of our internal investigation, based on the accusations were also engaging standing law firm J is use Jackson, Lewis and they in turn have contracted Amish Sherry Silberman who's an independent reviewer who will work it, who will do an analysis and look into the allegations. >> That's where I just was art. Yep, tracking. Well as about excellence in a minute, you also send your opening statement that there's only 12 complaints from the 2000 plus employees at J a race that's based on comments made on your first big meeting and also at the at the press conference. Okay. Mean, you have like in your mind, a magic number of the number of complaints is enough to like get rolling? Well, I mean, >> you know, I would say, OK, one is serious enough, and I don't if somebody thinks they have a legitimate thing right here is going to have isolated instances which need to be looked into and there's something to that. You need to take action. But if it's one that certainly doesn't imply is endemic at the home institution. >> Sure. But and >> let me just understand is that the 12 allegations out there? You would you recognize that if there are 12 legitimate complaints out there, not saying that they're validated just 12 complaints out there, they probably aren't the only complaints that there's probably other people who are afraid to come forward. You're always going to have a small percentage like that. I'm sure if my problem is, I guess the question I might want to excuse me. >> But OK, so what is the number that then says, are you going to chase down every rabbit hole for a complaint and that's something you got to balance. >> It. >> My problem is with HR. If I feel like I'm being discriminated against from HR because the color of my skin, where am I supposed to go? That's the case then with and I'm no expert on H R. But in that case we have the anonymous hotline ethics hotline which you can call 2 of your NJ employee. Okay. There's a couple of surveys going out right now. >> We were doing one you're doing on. >> If the results come back, that there's a systemic problem of races and I J with regards to promotion in particular with black employees of black managers. What is the threshold for you to say we've got a leadership problem, a J that allowed this to happen? >> Well, that if if if the analysis the survey, whatever shows that it is a valid. >> A valid complaint about racism, then that is a issued reflected on the leadership that we got to change things. >> And again, just jumping into a sensitive question here. If someone leaders have used the N word 2 employee, would that be enough too early on a deadly us? Totally unacceptable. The stuff and toxic work environment. I think we can all agree. It's kind of hard to nail down. Everybody complains about their boss because their boss to tell them what to do for you. What is that? What is the threshold is screaming in the office and not to say that's unacceptable. Like what is that? What kind of facts you think would be like? Alright, this leader shouldn't be in that position. Toxic leadership to me is demeaning somebody personally. >> It's not toxic. Leadership is not demanding high standards. And if you can't meet the standards and appropriate action has to take place that is treating people with dignity and respect. >> You mentioned that you sat down with Kurt Wilson on February 18th. He asked for that meeting, right? >> That is correct. He asked for it. I'm told on the 18th. I think he testified to that or you ask for the day before and then you met on 18th. Is that right? Correct? Okay. How long was it? >> It was an hour. It was at 5 o'clock and 5 o'clock to around 6 o'clock at night. Did you tell the guy gave you before the meeting your meeting with Kurt Wilson? Yes, when the teller I told they're on the 17th because there was a conflict and I can remember what it was some sun. I was supposed to be to me for something and then curtain. I had to change the time. It was a conflict for some creepy. >> As I recall, let me try to get right to the heart of this. Did Kurt Wilson testified here that he told you that Vicky knew that you guys are meeting, that he get fired? >> Again, this is where I I can answer your question. But I want to you have to really check with a chart to make sure I know what I'm talking about at that meeting with curtain. I he told me he had already resigned as I recall. Yeah, I think according HR, he had already submitted his resignation. So and I got it the next day as Mr. Wilson said the next day they did away at that position, making it sound like he was fired the next day. That's not the case. They get away the position that was already an occupied because he had resigned. But I'd ask you to check with HR. That's the impression on under. >> Up and had the position while he met with you and then was fired the next day because of that meeting. Do you think that would be a violation of the whistleblower policy? A J? >> Yeah. But it's not like yeah. They differ speaking hypothetically. There's no way in heck regardless of how contentious the meeting and wasn't can such as by the way. He just it was a one-way conversation. Him telling me what is observations were that said I would never then run to the CEO and say fire this guy. That's not my remit is a board member. >> Directing a a. >> Do you work with her Wilson before that meeting regularly? >> Yeah, I mean, and quite honestly, I was very subpar. And for the geez, I think he was AJ as long as I've been and was I was excellent, was very good. In fact, ironically, the on characterizing saying before you might road is a bad way saying it, but I'm not sure what happened. But as recently as the 12th of February, when we were at the ready Erickson's that discharge from the rehab center, our director of electricity got seriously injured and like her. And I are walking back from that ceremony. And he's telling me, you know, working with City Council on your nomination, OK, I didn't sense any any disillusion with Kurt at all. And prior he had been fantastic for some reason. And I don't know what it is. That's between him. And and then I guess a CEO. However, the relations soured, it took me by surprise. And then just some stuff he started saying took me by surprise. I never would expected to hear that from her. >> He said that there's a toxic work Environment, J a he said that there's issues with general counsel advice. He's he's be testify here. I'm sure you've heard about it. If you didn't watch it, you were here. That's for sure. Do you think you saw the true 30 think he's fabricating? >> No, I'm not. I'm not here to impugn his honor. He has his own way of seeing things which may have been. >> And I'll just dumb. I'll say this. He was he was straight forward when he said he saw no discrimination or racial issues on it. And I agree with that as far as other stuff and maybe his perspective, I don't agree with his perspective. But if you're saying call and you know, I question his integrity. No, I'm not doing that. >> I am sure he'd appreciate that, too. Like I said, this is is not antagonistic. We're just trying to trying to get all this out because people have these questions are going to fast forward to February 20th. There is this press conference here at City Hall who invited to the press conference. I'm not sure. >> As I can remember, you sat next to thank you, Katie. During the press conference or half of it. Yeah, yeah, OK? So here's a flag question. I don't really want to ask but people keeps showing this photo of you guys sitting next to each other. It looks like you're holding hands. That's not Wright is a that's actually use the app. Okay? Yeah. That's out there. Now we can move on. And at the press conference, the mayor said that there is a conspiracy to take over Jay from former mayor of Jacksonville and his former staff. Do you think that's true? >> I'm not going to comment on that. It reason why not going to it could be a Clint be but this is just plain and then some drama that I can be part of. I keep things black and white with. >> Have you heard of GA Public Power partners before? >> No, I haven't. >> You know that they offered a billion dollars for a 50 year concession J. Did you know that Jamie Brooks work for them during that? You know, did you know Mike Weinstein work for them during a no? You're at that car. That press conference were essentially. Let me ask you this. Did you go the press conference with the intent of supporting the Katy? >> Absolutely. And also the intent putting down. But what I still say is is a drama not created by J. Would some members here said before classic meeting we didn't create this trauma is trauma started within City Council on that press conference announcing the need for this sick. That's where the drama started. >> So you went to the press conference to support Vicki KV, right? You'd already been told that there was allegations of racism, allegations of toxic workplace allegations. Yeah, she's with capacity fees. Allegations regarding about a contract. You knew all those things before the press conference. That's not correct. >> And just so the only on racism and and toxic leadership, the only prior knowledge period on that okay was from the press conference and then what the meeting with Kurt and that was at capacity fees was never part of the the part of this. >> Sure. Okay. Okay. But just all right. So but you you're aware that there's these allegations, whether it's from the council president, anybody else on racism and talks of workplace, I would just stick with those 2. And you stood behind the CEO at a press conference anyway without having done investigation yet. And what if they're true? >> Find out. And then then if it's true at the appropriate processes indicate so then I'll take accountability for that. >> And moving on the capacity fees of the Mayo Clinic, I assume you were briefed on this. You told me like you got up to speed in January. >> Yet, no. So I got up to speed actually last week. But but I will say and for if you go, you'll see the results of the meeting tomorrow. This is very, very complicated. It's not straight forward, but I will say some of the narrator's where male one other entities are getting off the hook up having to pay for their services is completely false. They haven't been given a reprieve or overlooked any other services, a capacity fee. I can give you a 2 minute thing if you want or just it. >> How much debt you want to go into? I mean, I'm really just trying to I like timelines. So I just was trying to figure out when you got up to speed on the issue of capacities that was OK, so >> I'm 25% smart now than tomorrow after our and dive, then I'll be feel very confident in knowing the major, you know, most of the woods behind it. >> But the issue was first flagged in January of this year. They came to my attention within JTA executive leadership. I think it was December, but I do this. Okay. All right. >> On the that, of course. >> My understanding with Mr. Salvo that in 2022 this capacity fee Kabul was identified. That's what I've been told. Correct account. What you and I agree on that Wright has this issue ever come to the board of directors and it had a regular board of directors meeting? No, not to my knowledge. I find it. It's standing that you'll see to I I hear what you're saying. Council members say, man. >> For all I know maybe this whole capacity fee tariff as it's called, okay. Maybe it's something that's unenforceable or maybe it's something that needs majorly, you know, tweet again or something but all agree. There's issues with it. That is very complicated. I. >> I hear you, but I'm just astounded that you as the chair were just briefed in January and this issue is not come to the board are the cannot continue. Just for second. Are you aware of a meeting that Miss Katie had with the CEO of Mayo? I know there was a meeting recently. Yes. Are you aware that is it's been reported to me that a deal was cut to where we will forgive year-old fees and go forward. >> My understanding is not correct. This is all still and in the litigation may be the wrong word but it's still in the process of determining what's going to happen. But there's no deal then made from my understanding from your understand, correct? Okay. >> Please go ahead. But those are all the questions that I had on that except for he's the CEO of J have the authority to make that deal with Mayo without. >> Board approval. >> To make what the awaiting capacity waiving the fee or essentially negotiating a resolution to this? I would think so. But I can't I don't know for sure from a legal thing. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not trying to catch out. Just been really cares. And I jump in. It's my understanding that Regina Ross wrote a memo. >> To the CEO saying you cannot forgive these capacity fees. They must be collected. I assume you've seen that memo. I did not see that memo. You did not see that memo. >> And you are aware that. >> The see the JAG, a leadership question that if she got a second opinion, have you seen that second opinion where she saw she saw outside counsel and they said the same thing? >> I've heard, but I haven't seen the results of it, but I heard she sought a second opinion. Did you and I want to say, though, I really feel uncomfortable talking about anything with Virgina based on the attorney client privilege thing that will be discussed tomorrow. So I just want to. >> I'm I'm not ask you to comment on I just that. But those are public records that I'm referring to there. They're all over the city, the the original memo that she road and when question she saw outside counsel brought that in and it's supported her opinion. Did you attend a meeting with with Mister Fact where where you ask for this Ross to be removed from JD? Yes, I did. Yes. You did went to that occur. I think October's over chamber. Maybe I can remember what was that? What was the reason for requesting her removal? I have my own reasons unknown which is closed again. I'm getting back on attorney client right now. You had recent yourself for having a removed. Is that what you're saying is correct. And I sue Ms KB have reasons as well. I assume you're correct or they. >> Why did you want to read as your attorney? I'm asking for about her council. Just what? Why would you not want her to be a lawyer? >> With all due respect to her and I don't want to impugn her professionalism. >> Whenever I'd ask for something for her advice to me was way off the mark. I saw her getting outside her box on issues that are disruptive within the executive leadership team and also just a minute attention to detail. >> What I mean by disruptive. >> Just that I'm not. So she had the confidence of everybody based on her interactions of meetings and I'll just leave it at that. >> I don't want to make this a personal attack on regime known. I understand, general. I think the issue is that the lawyer was asked to be removed and of course, that happened to the last time you were here for it. But the lawyers kept changing when they gave advice to see didn't like. And so it's a sensitive issue for us when Ogc gets lawyers get replaced. And so that's why we're drilling down on it. >> Okay. But just vehicle, I know, you know, that's there's 5 lawyers at that time. We had 4 or 5 lawyers or the energy to. So it's not like we're saying get rid of everybody from ogc that were such a just we know that place. >> I'm trying to understand because I find it fascinating that you would tend. >> I'm eating. >> Where with Michael fact we're requesting that that. >> Misrata be removed and that would seem to be the CEOs responsibility are going to see Mister fact or to request that. >> I'm I'm I'm like Mr. Diamond, I went through 2019 and I'm very sensitive to attorneys being removed in such a fashion. It's a it raises a red flag to me having gone. You know, I have confidence and that women don't let me let me but I find it. Did she ask you to go with her? >> Good. Who asked me escaping this came in and go with me to Mr. Factor you went by yourself and one with Jodi Brooks. You went with Jodi Brooks to see Mr. Fact, Escapee was not present know. And then that was the meeting you requested that she be removed. I didn't request to be removed. I express my my frustration with her performance. Did you go to a meeting with MS KV separate from and >> you did not do not. Okay. They're not gotten some bad information. >> Yeah, I mean, it's perfect timing. I was going to ask about Jay Brooks and what's her roll over their Cao chief administrative officer? Yes, what it what does that do? American guests, but any help me out. >> She generally but specifically actually remain jobs and make sure the gaa stays within all the policies from the city regulations, state regulations, federal regulations. >> Yeah. Basically it hears all the policies. It's a huge tasking and it permeates all the executive leadership duties because again, they all are subject to their regulations, policies, procedures, et cetera. So she's got a significant job. >> And she's an attorney, correct? That is correct. This year. We give you legal advice. >> Enter when I first got to Jay, she was the legal counsel for JTA. So my first year and just write year and a half, she was the oji's see reports. >> And then after that, did she give you legal advice when she was Cao? >> Paul, what ways? I'm Miss Ross. It ended all your pre meeting prior to her. >> Removal. Is that correct? I'm sorry. Councilman Zim is to Miss Ross Regina Ross. It ended from as the Ogc representative attended all the meetings briefing you on board meetings and such. Is that correct? >> She attended all the board meetings. She did not attend the pre, please. She did not. Not that I recall. Okay. She I we have so many she may have over the I think she's with us for 3 years for a member, right? Maybe on occasion she was there but not everyone for the prepare ease for the actual board meetings. I don't think she ever miss a board meeting. >> Okay. Well, it's my understanding that she intended. >> The the PRE meeting review with each board member. >> I did. Each board member have their own separate 3 brief meeting. You have to yes, OK, it's my understanding that she attended those prior to removal but just to just to establish a one she was removed. Did you have another ogc attorney attend any of those attend any of the preemie tings? Yes, if it was it was isolated that it was not routine. As far as I remember, it's my understanding that the you and the other board members were law. Don't Miss Brooks as as as counsel one Sri Gina left for those. >> The meetings I did not, you did not cast the field board members know because I recognize Jodi Brooks is position is as the chief admin officer not to general counsel. >> But then who do well in those meetings would be to rely on for legal advice. >> I've got to tell you legal advice. It never came up in my mind are no issues that I needed to to Riverton legal a choice. >> But there was no ogc representative in those meetings. >> Not that article. Thank you to score a K a >> 6. Just kind of going back to MS Ross and I know we're focusing on us and hopefully after this for real now we'll talk about as Brooks and we'll talk with MS KD and then hopefully that we're done with this particular line of questioning. >> But >> when it comes in is Ross did Miss Brooks and Ms Ross ever disagree and a meeting with you about anything as far as legal advice? >> I can't name specifics but it won't surprise me. Did you Miss Brooks and Ms Ross disagree about capacity fees are. >> That I don't know. I'm not sure. And maybe we'll find out more tomorrow. I'm just not sure that a fair enough. >> Was one of the reasons why you didn't want his Ross to continue in her role was her opinion about capacity fees was one of the reasons because she sometimes disagreed with Jodi Brooks. >> No. >> I'm like get more dad. They're more deandra color on. Well, yeah, just say I again, I'm not speaking for the entire executive leadership team that in general. >> And I can't speak for them. But in general folks, I best characterize the boy. They weren't comfortable going to the Regina for council. >> All has one last question on this stuff and then all move on to combined cycle plant. But on the attorney client privilege waiver issue and ask you to disclose any conversations with any lawyers. But if you as a former board chair and current board member, just you, your vote was to just give a total waiver. What's the worst that can happen if Jay said, yeah, you can know every single thing that our lawyers have told us like. I'm concerned about the president's that. But again and again, I'm concerned about the president sets for board. Members are going to have 2 new board, potentially 2 new board members coming on. And I'm just concerned about if I'm in incoming board, new brand new incoming. >> And get wind of while they were waving an attorney client privilege. I don't care how how it potentially innocuous in this situati