TRUE COMMISSION

>> Today is Thursday, August 6. This is a the August meeting, the taxation revenue and utilization of expenditures for the truth Commission. We will we have 5. We need 6, correct? Correct. So we do not have a qorum me not may not take any action until we have a 6 person to arrive. Do we have any excuse to unexcused absences? I have to excuse those one from Mr. Barr from Keyshawn Hargrove. The other strikes Uzai soon. Alright, we are going to go out of order a little bit so we can have a nice uninterrupted flow, continuity, Mr. Me if you go up, please and deliver your public comments and if you excuse me, have to make a phone call. All right. >> Well, Hello, I am John J. Noon in Jacksonville City Council resolution Twenty-twenty Three's Early 1, 9, and city Council district 4 CPAC, 3 school board district 3. And what I just want to do is just share with you, you know, the you know, with the truth Commission. And, you know, let me just first will young going to be making a donation? You know? >> If gosh, you hear guys thing up first. >> But real quick, this is how reflected in the minutes and this is the Truth Commission meeting Minutes, John, and talk about very special revenue trust funds, Mr. Muse interrupted by the chair several times for not addressing items on the agenda, OK? So anyway, a whole bunch of meetings everywhere. And listen to these minutes. John Hughley discussed the importance of expanding public access to Jackson waterways, including additional access point and boat ramps. He referenced city reports identifying access deficiencies and highlighted potential par property acquisitions including sites near Pottsburg Creek. He also discussed a real city trust funds including the Park's Trust Fund Veterans Trust Fund in Order officially trust fund encouraging greater public awareness and use of these resources to support community projects. Additionally, he highlighted regional organizations like the Northeast, Florida Regional Council in funding opportunities, including the Florida Inland navigation district that could exist with improving water, weight access. And I don't have a good note on the table. But you know what the other day it was at the board of County commissioners for Saint Johns County. Here is the agenda. You know, I just came from the Northeast, Florida Regional Council in 7 counties. And listen to this. Number 11 potential impacts of property. Tax reform says pain. Well, just keep this in mind. Amendment 3. Our place is a revenue source and Duval can be one of the biggest. And there's moments when it comes one minute. Well, tell you what, you know. I you know, I think it's the use of shared updates. Get some had updates. Come in. You are making a movie and let me just highlight those trust funds. Your 2009 4.42. This your official reached trust fund to 2026. Triple for Park Trust. Fund 2025, 0, 4, 6, 3, The Veterans Trust Fund 2026, 0, 3, 9, 6, sets movie trust fund 2025, 0, 8, 6, 7, Duval County public schools cip windy Con capital improvement projects nearly got crushed. The Finance Committee, you know, and CPAC threes, probably the worst CPAC you could be if you are a complete no show for flight and so city of Jacksonville. There are 7 school board district ago. My doctor Bernier sure no. And this hat FWC to spin of the Fish and Wildlife Commission. Cia will clash rooms in America. So all I can tell you is, you know, here's 2 checks. You know, the crochet is here also. >> Thank you, Mr. Getting your Time's Up. All right. And right of why we have a new member joining us at the after we well this. >> This guy is awesome to, you know, do what? >> If you'll state your name and address for the record thing you can fill out the speaker card in hand didn't? Yes. Thank you. Ernest Smith, 400 East Bay Street Suite. Not a one. Thank you for allowing me to indulge. You chair. Just want to give an update. I know that the current urban core CPAC representative to the Truth Commission is absent and we have one in the hopper right now. So be looking for that to come through in the next cycle, if you will. We have to spend that is willing to volunteer to come to the truth Commission. I believe Kim Pryor was last representative from the urban core, but we have another representative has is willing and ready to step up to take on that position. So just want to give you an update. That's all are you read the chair of the yes event in Grammy. Ernest Smith Smith, thank you very much. Thank you. Look forward to having them. Join us. A plea in a September. Yes, so. >> I keep forgetting that we begin the committee meeting at 4 and then commission meets at 4.30, maybe in light of today. We will not buy for Kate the process but maybe unify it since we do have our chief financial Officer Ms Roche, a former member of the city council. If you would like to make the presentation, I'm sure there are many questions we would love to ask you, Sir. Appreciate. >> Thank you. And good afternoon to the Truth Commission as Chairman Day shared. My name is Ana Brush. And I have with me. >> Michelle Beckley, who is our comptroller, who was actually just appointed formally appointed at the last council meeting. So Colleen reached out and has said that there were questions about the financial reporting process. The closed process, I guess, is probably more appropriate and we don't have any specific presentation but would be happy to answer questions. There's a difference between the monthly close process that we have and then the annual crow close process that we go through in preparation for our external audit. And so Michels the one who actually oversees the closed process on a regular basis and her team's and it's actually more broad than accounting. Michelle oversees the accounting division, and she's one of the 5 divisions that report to me. But she actually collaborate with procurement and with Treasury to make sure that all the different modules within our system are properly addressed in the process of kind of, I would say, locking down. But but saying, hey, we're done with this month and we're moving on to the next month. So, yeah, that there's a lot to it. So I really prefer that you actually ask us your questions and then maybe we can get more specific. >> So we will go ahead and get started. We will go alphabetically. So that would that Mister Lures Europe. >> I don't have any questions regarding the the topic at hand, but I do have is that they regard and the work that I've been doing with the PSU thing. But absolutely you're on the agenda. So, yeah, you got that right case going to go to Mr. I'm sorry. Ms Rounds, Ville in Mister Tyson than this young boy and have been questions at this time, Mr. Tyson. >> And I don't know the specific questions and we were a lot of things to discuss. Not it was the process itself and how it all came together. As far as the monthly's quarterly and annual and how the Kerry overs in the and Green's this right now. But the Kerry overs and those things it proved that not spent to maybe sometimes can be moved to the to the next year. How that process works case. >> That's a great question. Thank you. So there were a number of questions and they're actually and I'll start with the you know, we're rocking along and then we're paying bills and receiving money every month and processing a lot of different things within the city. And we have a close schedule that indicates that the month will close by a date certain of the following month. And that's really basically telling the system we're closing the different modules and so that anything going forward is reporting in the proper month. So there's a process that we go through in the system. And when then so each of those months and then, you know, we have a string that's, you know, the next person in line to close. There's an order the system dictates in terms of the models that close and then boom, the fun and the General Ledger is the final piece that needs to shut down. So that's for the month. And that happens every month in a quarter. And the quarterly reports that you hear about which are council auditor receives and evaluates and presents to the finance committee. It's a matter of those 3 months rolling into the quarter. But at the end of the quarter is a little bit more important in terms of the reporting because there is I say it's more important what we're just making sure that anything that might have been found in a prior month or prior quarter that we're addressing so that we can make sure that it's a clean presentation to a lot of different constituencies, those quarters roll into the year and the year and processes even more stringent in terms of the reconciliations and the documentation and the steps that Michelle and her team go through to make sure that we invite our external auditors and and give them the records that they need to conduct that audit with respect to carry forwards. I'm glad for the opportunity to explain the distinction that every budget that gets approved. It truly is for that year, the 2 billion dollar budget that we proposed. It's for the operating budget for the year. The fiscal year ended the 27. But there are things that we do like our capital projects, specific pieces of legislation that don't necessarily have an end date of the year there. There needs to be drivers, legislative Lee driven authority for things to happen outside of a particular fiscal year. And then besides those Thor that authority for something to take longer than a year and for the system to reflect that, we also are given the authority to make purchases and and some of those purchases do cross years in terms of a purchase order having been issued because we were told we could spend a million dollars on something and we issue a purchase order. And with all the tracking in the paperwork, in the billing from the vendors and people that we used to provide services that might not necessarily all closed down before the end of the fiscal year. And so there may be some purchase orders that stay open. Eventually get closed. Michelle leads the process, at least quarterly where she's telling our departments. Here's a list of all your open purchase orders. And unless we give the less we hear a justifiable reason that we agree is true justification. We're shutting it down. And so there are a lot of different things that we do to make sure that people don't have access to funding from long ago that they really shouldn't have there needs, you know, just because somebody can't say I needed to stay open. That's not a justification to keep the purchase order open. So the carryforwards are out there in terms of things that do cross the years because they are so intended to last longer than a year or because there may be purchase orders that need to cross over and let them clean up and finish shot. You know, after the end of the after the end of the fiscal year, anything to admission down pretty good acting like I'm in the weeds. >> It's a fun. So basically if they don't close it out or not, we know they are going to need to filed some reason to to have it move carried forward in has to be approved before they can do that. So >> if it's not legislatively approved to stay open beyond the end of the fiscal year, like it's automatically going to take 3 years to do a particular public works project that's going to stay open for regular purchase orders that are for items intended to be only for one fiscal year. Porter Lea Michele reaches out to all the finance managers in every department and says here's the list of open purchase orders that you have and we're shutting them down unless you give us good reason for them to stay open this young blood. >> No questions at this time, but I just learned that I was able to park and found the restroom. So we're still learning how that all works at a bank. You Mr. Chairman, you're ahead of the. >> My process when I joined so that's half the battle. I have some questions, the sort of macro, how far out Dewey Project, the financial, the operating budget for the city of Jacksonville. I know we approve the budget annually, but do we have a strategic mindset? You know, we know our tax rules. We know that we're going to a development process. We know that some properties come from an improved to improve status. We know that there is a general increase in the market value of our tax rolls. Do we make some assumptions and then try to prepare a 3 to 5 year forward projection on the revenues and projected expenditures from city government. >> Thank you. We do that through the form of I believe, Tommy, you would know. I believe it's in the code that we prepare particular schedule that we submit with each annual budget. Its schedule B 3. It's in the schedules on the legislative gateway attached to 2026. 504. That provides a 5 year projection for revenues and expenditures. Other pretty high level. So we're having in general, we have we know where we're headed. >> But the GPS functions on an annual basis in speak. Yes. And then the capital improvement programs. It's a 5 year at look forward and are all of the capital improvement programs generally started and completed within that 5 yards 5 year time frame? >> Absolutely not. What would be the general distribution then? What's what's the most extreme cases even countered and you've been involved in this in a circus for number of years now? >> I'm not even sure, but I'm I'm confident that there are projects that have taken longer than 5 years to start and complete. And and let me explain some of the reasons why >> at times there are there's some eminent domain work involved, their easement that we have to get. There's collaboration with different parties like FDOT. And you know that there's just a lot of moving parts and each project has its own characters. >> Web of >> issues that have to be navigated in order for things to move forward. So you can see things change. You find environmental issues that people didn't anticipate. >> So >> what I'll share is that every year we do propose a 5 year Cip Capital improvement program that you mentioned and the first year of those 5 years is what is being appropriated in the budget process. The remaining 5 years is approved by the council, but not for spending. It's basically kind of a look at what's ahead that strategic look that you're talking about. But everything that has been approved in the past doesn't necessarily show up in those pages. There's a section in the Cip book that describes authorized not yet Lent because even in this year, 1.4 billion dollars of projects has been previously approved, but not even showing up. >> In the. >> What, you know, one point, whatever billion or 2 billion dollars of 5 years of work that we're proposing right now. The good thing about the way that we have structured the way that we fund these projects is that instead of presenting a plan and going out and borrowing money to do those projects, we actually leverage the city's cash portfolio to spend. And before the end of the year, we go to the market and issue bonds to, quote, refill the buckets of spend. So we only borrow for projects based on spending that has actually occurred. We are not paying interest on debt for something that still trying to go through some attorneys to do eminent domain work but stay at current. >> For the latest information you would have as to what are the cash balances for the city of Jacksonville. Just a city, Jacksonville, not the independent authorities. >> So our operating portfolio, I can't tell you what today's Balancer yesterday says, but the average balance across a year because, you know, we get taxes. We start collecting in November and December. So we we we receive a lot of cash or early and then we ride that cash to the rest of the year. But the average balance for the 12 months is 1.6 billion dollars. >> With the with the be. All right. >> When you get back a little bit talk about the lapses in this sort of my observation that has come to me is that the budget gets approved by the council, goes into effect October 1st. And then as we get these quarterly reports, we receive that there is a shortfall that one of the agencies or some departments have overspent there. If you were to look at this on a quarterly basis, they have spent more than one-fourth of their budgeted expenditures. And the explanation is always given what we're not too concerned about it because we know we can make it up on the back end, which leads me to question. Why are we budgeting on a monthly basis as opposed to a lump sum annual basis? Because I think what that contributes to is an attitude of we'll go ahead and spend it will make it up on the back end as opposed to saying, OK, this is the level of physical activity. It's going to occur by department within a month. And this is going to be the level of financial commitment and expenditures required. I came out Barnett Banks. We knew monthly what we were budgeted to spend. We had the ability to project monthly what our revenues were going to be because we had, you know, the great bulk of our assets were in contracts, legal contracts, you know, promissory notes. So we could project with the relatively high degree of certainty. We knew what our prophet Target was. So we knew that revenue was at sand. Art profit was e we could only spend wide enough. Why exceeded what was budgeted? You had to explain what that was. And I believe that that's one of the strengths of the private sector and being able to manage an organization. And I don't see that just a plant in city government or state government. We're certainly not federal government. And do you believe that if we were to go to an actual monthly budgetary process, do you think we could create and instill a culture of financial discipline within the city that is perhaps lacking because he's weak. We must every month we hear these presentations, but Mr. Carter and it's like a why was this money spent? And nobody really knows. Just say, well, got spent. And, you know, is in the budget. Do you think that that would be a a it would certainly be a, I think, more complicated process to follow that budget. But do you think that would contribute to a better level of discipline and a different culture within city government? >> I I don't think that we've ever said that will make it up on the back end and maybe you're paraphrasing your your interpretation of of what is there? I think there's an explanation. >> Of the >> favorable and unfavorable variance is from a categorical perspective. >> But yet I'll take, for example, Sports Entertainment's budget is not going to happen re doubly. And that might be what you're talking about. Like if they have spent a lot of their money because the Jazz festival happens at a certain point in the fiscal year that causes it to be spent earlier. Whatever reason, if we if we receive some buddies rent at the beginning for the whole year, is it going change? Things may be so in that there may be some different nuances within each department that would cause some of those fluctuations, Mr. Carter might not know or other people might not know. But I'm pretty sure that the department director and the finance people within the department that's reporting knows what happened and could speak to it just might not be apparent to everybody else why certain as certain money has been spent. So to your overall question, do I believe that moving to a monthly budgeting process would create a different culture or a kind of discipline that would be helpful. >> I >> and not sure. And I'm so glad that you said this in your remarks that would be a much more complicated process and be more involved. I'm not sure the investment in resources that would be requires in order to implement such an approach would be worth a difference. At the end of the day, why would it be more expensive to do it that way you're talking about? I mean, I mean, the rhythm of city government, it's pretty well established. We're going to start to budget cycle in October. >> We know that in November and December are going to have this huge infusion of cash of and you know, probably by certainly in the march we probably have collect is what 96 97% of ad valorem taxes. Maybe 3% is going to be in the delinquent category. And so we know that that's the rhythm of the revenue side for ad Valorem non ad valorem so comes in and it's a litany of revenue line items and it's just, you know, things I've never heard of it and we can now look back historically mean, okay, this is this month. This amount of money should come in for, you know, let's say utility tax were Jay a Pacer franchise tax or a TNT Pacer, franchise tax, public utility tax, you know, the different revenue categories. So why would be then? Why would it require a higher level of investment? We're asking you're asking for projections to be updated monthly, which is a managerial process. Yes, I will just submit to you. >> It would be more involved. You said, like, like, help me understand what you mean by it would be a more complicated process. Well, because you have the management team has to be in thinking on a monthly basis as opposed to an annual basis, too often times at least I think the perception of the public is that. >> Okay. Government says all right. This was what we spent last year. So just mark it up by 2%. And that's going to be your budget for next year. >> We don't go through line item by line item in line item and say, OK, for the month of October, these activities are going to occur. These are the number of staff hours that are going to take. Therefore, we can calculate payroll. You can calculate travel expenses, educational expenses, the various related operating expenses. We know that we have a a computer or a bank of computers for parks and recreation that in May of 2027 is going to hit the 5 year Mark. And I don't know what our policy is about upgrading technology, but we would know that in May we need to budget that expenditure of funds to cover that expense. I mean, that's how we did it in the press and the public sector. >> The private sector, how do you know that's not happening here? I spice. My question is it is art and how we know that. >> How do how do we know that? Because I oversee n a nine-month budget process. >> And 9 months budget process. You mean that we start. >> This process and move that. >> The in January to culminate September 30th, we do is we begin the week began preparing the city budget in January. We do. >> And how much of that budget? >> Is projected through historical performance versus new think metallic called them better months aspects of city spending new programs. >> I think both it's not an either or it is an understanding of what you know, we don't say your budget was 50 million and we're going to give you 2 more 2% or we don't. And if they don't agree, I think that's the perception of the public. Yeah. How do we how do we begin to correct that perception? You know, if maybe the mayor needs to and she goes for a town hall meetings coming up, she needs maybe explain that it would that be one way of doing it perhaps could be. I'm sure that there's a tremendous amount of education necessary. I think people who are involved in the process like Mr. Noonan, Ian, come to that meetings and and spend time with the budget information to understand there's an explanation through every fund in terms of what it is that it's based on and the fact that we're trying to put forth current level of service like what is the cost to deliver the same low, the same services that we do today. We have a process by which departments can request enhance months for new programs are new things that want to happen. And I've led the department's at least for the last 2 years through a process of meeting with me and other leaders in the city to understand if you had to cut your budget 10%, how would you do it? And so I have the information available to me to understand when it is that we do need to make cuts. Should that be the case and often times the need to create room for those new programs that you're wanting to do? >> We go through and periodically prune programs say, look, we've been doing I don't want to say I want to take on the program, but let's just for the sake of argument, meals on wheels. Okay. We've been delivering 10,000 meals a day last year this year. You know, we think it's going to drop to 9,000 meals a day. How do we project that type of spending cuts? Are the process had we manage that at city government? >> Well, if we're doing 10,000 meals and the waitlist is 10,000, we're not going to prove it to 9,000. >> Then how do you go about adding this is the other part because I asked this question of Mr. Weinstein when he led Kids Hope Alliance. And I said, all right, I've heard you make this presentation and you're getting. I think it was 32 million a year. This is probably 3 years ago. You're only and you are hitting this many clients. But we know in the city of Jacksonville, that pool is probably twice that number, but we're not delivering that service. So what is the process by which we begin making the argument that we need to increase the investment in certain programs, whether it's social programs, capital spending programs or economic development programs. How how what's our process for going through that or do we have a process? >> I'm not sure that there's a large city process each directors responsible for coming up in making the case of why something needs to be different and more than what they're currently offering. I do know that the mayor's the mayors review the state of DOT, state of Jax information that you've heard state of Jax Dot Org, where we're getting down to very detailed levels of understanding and demographic information that's impacting I know that might be what Mr. Lors is going to talk about in terms of data and leveraging very specific data within the city to determine how is it that we utilize our PSG funds and there are different pockets of data analysis being performed. Kha uses an LP Logic's to evaluate, you know what ZIP codes are in most need. And so there is an approach to determine the. >> The most. >> Effective and impactful way of deploying scarce resources because resources are always the scares. And there there's no high-level city other than the state of Jax and utilizing that information and trying to determine return on investment. Each department director would be responsible for defining in leveraging our data analytics folks to come up with that base case to make for increasing. >> And then finally, just keep the closing days. When are the monthly reports closed? The quarterly reports closed in the annual reports closed in order for it to go to the external auditor monthly raise after the close of that period after the end of that period. >> Monthly reports. I'm just going to say generally 15 calendar days so that. >> The typical level, then the quarterly reports are 30 calendar days after the close of the quarter. >> And then the annual audit is more flexible in terms of working with our external auditors to determine when they need the information and when will be finished with it in order for them to make sure that we file by the June 30 required deadline and which which baffles me break. >> We're not we're not doing that. >> Annual audit until 9 months after the close the fiscal year. But I know that's the law. >> And it's just yeah, that's that's that's when the state is requires that delivery. >> Why is it so long? I mean, at Barnett, I mean, we closed. We had our auditors report. You should dated by April. The seconds that we could file our press release on how much our earnings were for the prior year in order to meet the usually April 10th to 12th Deadline for stockholders meeting. >> It's a really good question. And Michelle and I both have very deep and extensive audit experience so we can appreciate. And I also understand exactly what you just said. I think that the timeline has been complicated by our conversion to a new ERP system. >> Is that the one that did about 90 years ago and just now functioning know you facetious? But it was at least 4 years ago, 2020. >> Okay. It's exact same time as COVID. So we implemented a system when everybody went home. And so we have spent years trying to learning curve that steep. >> A is the learning curve of the Evan ERP system for a 2 billion dollar operation with hundreds 100's of funds and thousands of chart of accounts steep. Yeah. Okay. >> So you don't feel that were abnormally behind the curve. You think are we about where we should be or we are not where we should be. >> And Michelle and I are excited about shorten that timeline. And we've got to make a plan we've already filed. Yeah, we've already filed and and we're already planning to. We're not going to say by when Kuz where we have said within, we've told our team by within and we've told our external auditor by with a certain date and it will be earlier because that's what we expect. That's all I have started brilliant. But it is, you know, as a the numbers keep myself and I'm an accountant. But, >> you know, I'm a financial analysts by education and training and I spend every day in front of a spreadsheet looking real, real say operations. So it die. Just sometimes I'm bewildered, slow pace, which city government operates. I mean, you know what? >> I love to give some commentary here because when I decided to run for office many, many years ago and I met with someone who worked in city government and it with this is back in 2008. I think I said it was back in the days when Rick Scott was talking about bringing efficiency the government. And I think those of us who've been in business can appreciate that. And we do. We have a lean program in full force here. We've deployed were in the crawl walk, run the crawl of the crawl, walk, run phase of deploying AI. So we're doing that. But I remember that person telling me that government wasn't designed to be efficient. Government is designed to be transparent as the active. Absolutely. And like I said, please don't mistake what I just said to me that I don't care about efficiency. You can't you can't even get that out to try to get that away from me. But I do think it's important to recognize that the difference between me walking over to my printer and picking up a quick books printed check and signing it and sticking in an envelope. And the process is that Michelle leaves her accounts payable team through when she's processing 100,000 checks and invoices per year. And the level of detail and checking to make sure that we're watching your taxpayer dollars and that we've got every record to prove what we're doing and what we're approving. So that when you come in, ask for that documentation that we're able to prepare, provide it. It is very different from walking over to the printer and picking up the check. >> If you had the ability to change either state statute, maybe in some places, the federal law or in many cases, of course, city ordinance to make Jacksonville a model for financial performance among municipal governments. What would you do? >> I don't know. >> Off the top my head. I think that's a really broad question. I think it's up to us to keep delivering the transparency that you expect and then to work with the tools that are available to us and the smarts of the great team, this public servants that you have working for you 2 to make things better all the time and to create the efficiencies that we know can exist. Art, our our department directors, are they? >> Timid in asking for additional staff or in seeking increases in salaries for staff. >> Mister Chair just just real quick before she answers. I I would like to get him myself. Oh, I'm sorry, know, perfectly. Okay. And I letter answer this and you bring, of course, of course. Yeah, any questions you might have at this point? >> We just made the comment in that before I move to remote and come and in the private sector and also I want twin City government. So I understand a lot of the things that you're saying and I just want to say, I do appreciate you coming. And they know there are a lot of difference is we as the private sector would love to see within city government. But I know a lot of edits long time coming in. Sometimes it seems impossible. So thank you. >> Our department directors timid. I don't think that I can't think of a department director whose timid they're not afraid to ask for more staff. If the honestly believe they need more staff to accomplish the goals that department they can ask and there you think they're and they're not afraid to ask? I don't think they're afraid to ask. They also know that they also know that we're not increasing simply cap. We're committed to maintain our level of employment. How how how do we compare in terms of compensation of our city employees lower? What would it take to get us to average for? >> Let's just take the 5 large cities us Miami, Orlando, Saint Pete. >> In Tampa, I think with the with the top, I don't have all the top my head. I know employee services does Don, a look on that public safety. We've taken some action to get them in line with where they need to be. And and they're still not at 100%, but they're the closest amongst everybody. But the general employee population is probably paid at 60 to 70 65 to 70%. >> Of of average. I don't know if it's average. I can remember off the top. My head of a weather was compared to private. And I think there's some challenges with doing that or if it was to other cities, but they're not paid in in in total compensation across the board at the same level. And if you if you tried to get private and what they have and in public employees with all the pensions and whatnot, it's not it's not on par. >> That Mr. Lures. And then does anybody else have any questions that have come to mind since I've been yammering on here? All right. Said Mr. Miller's so regarding the projections state you it was for the cip. You write that you were talking about the projections in 5 years. It yeah, just generally, yes. So what what methods to use statistical methods to use or projected revenues and expenditures over that period of time. >> If there's going to be a lot of reference to historical trends. >> In terms of the performance and the budgeting in the projection that we do is very conservative, which is what you expect. And we've been lauded by ratings agencies for our conservatism in terms of financial performance because we do much rather under promise and over deliver. >> Of course, said so. Would you say that that is more like a moving average that you use? I would. So what I would recommend the Navy, this can be more efficient way of doing it is like a regression based method where you take some economic and demographic variables, you know, like population growth and inflation unemployment, so on and so forth and use that verdict, maybe you can do that like a pack test where you can do it on using historical data and compared to a moving average where you can predict the revenue is an expert enters and see which one performs. What method outperforms is more accurate. Generally generally a regression base, not it will be more accurate and predicting those revenues and expenditures because simply put with the moving average, it's just historical data. So if your revenues have been over this period of time have been flat. The projection is, yeah, it's going to fly. But there might be some they're at variables or demographics that my demographic variables that might better protect that. Then, of course, there's always going to be some exhaustion, a shock. I don't think anyone predicted a war with Iran this year and the gas prices. So I think that's always going to be something that we have to account for. But I think that would be a way to maybe be more productive than that. And it I don't know if you're going to stick around for the the PSG subcommittee discussion of data, but which is what I've been working on. But there are some some things that I think maybe council otter. Yeah, your office might be able to help me with with regards to can and that. So I want to get into that kind of overstep or anything like that. >> I am not able to but missed handsy can definitely connect you with me and or provide the information that you share. Perfect. Thank you. I appreciate you all come. Thank you. You know questions. >> Just to follow them and see if the mid discussion. What happens if an item on the cip, what what would it doesn't just talk specifically because back in the day when they first started that are Jackson plan. My road was one of those. It was supposed to be bill and all the sudden there was no money for it. And we were told there was a reason that you be given back to us. It was never added to last year. They finally got my road back on to the cip that now we're hearing through the Grapevine that haven't ever get it. A straight answer from anybody at the money that was funded for this portion of road has already been spent. And I have not heard from them. The Mother Ticker piece of property that is on that road and it's under the imminent domain. So what happens when it's a different us item on the cip? The sun comes up where the council is lighted. 26 million dollars. But we spend and we got another million dollars for the party were trying to get. Does that require some special funding request to or through the council or what? What happens when funds been Fant winded when the fund is running out and they haven't finished up and even started the project in this region. >> So you have kind of coming gold, 2 different. >> Challenges there. You reference the Better Jacksonville Plan, which was a dedicated source for specific projects. And then you flipped it into a question that I think is when when a project needs more money because costs have increase or things have changed for misko perspective that were required, what happens and every year, including this year, the cip, it includes a port adjustments for projects that whose costs have increased beyond what we estimated, however, many years ago. And so there is a process by which public works goes through and evaluates the need for additional funding for a project for whatever reason and asks for that funding to be added to the count to the Cip. And the Council auditors office every year asks is the funding that's in this plan. Representative of the total cost of the project is this does include all that's needed. And so they're they're checking back for you to in terms of making sure that it's there. The fact I don't know what your road isn't. Even if you told me what you wrote is, I wouldn't know. You know, I've talk my head. What the specifics are of your project. Bjp does have continued funding source through the end of 2030 for specific projects that have been added to the work plan. And they're just like any other project that if they needed more money, that we would add that and it gets a little bit complicated because if the BJP funding doesn't cover the full work plan, what happened fairly recently was that any projects that didn't get funded by BJP just got added to the cip to be paid like a cip project. But those determinations would have to be made if there were funding shortfalls at the time that we close down BJP which isn't for a while. >> That's not what we were told him. >> Yeah, I don't know what I don't know. Was room earlier hearing or will it? >> It was in Whiting of Old Middleburg, south of Middleburg Road South. >> So that's one of the projects that has more money at it this year. >> In what happened we wanted we were told that the reason it wasn't done and the original better Jacksonville plan was that they took that money to do something else with. Yeah, I don't. So it's just, you know, all kinds of different ways. Thank you. >> I'm gonna make one final closing comment. Just maybe add a little bit of perspective, historical perspective. So 1973 City Council President Jake Godbold appointed me to the first charter Revision Commission. I was 19 years old. Jay, you and I remember going to the confirmation process and had a good for rules committee and the at that point it was called the council president Pro Tempore, which is now the vice president who was Earl Huntley. Earl was very skeptical. A teenager still a teenager was 19 of being appointed to that a city commission. And yes, me a question. And I said, well, I think that's more complicated situation than a simple answer. Tonight illustrated that bite demonstrating some knowledge. I said, for instance, we have a city budget. This is 1973. We have a city budget of 430 million dollars. And I said that's a lot of money. He says. Yes, it is. So anyway, I was favorably impact, impressed him favorably. Numbers eventually confirmed. And I I served on the commission and as a student of consolidation, which I consider myself to be, I believe that we deliver an economy of scale through consolidation. It's probably approaching 20 to 25%. If you look at the millage rate that a person who lives in the city of Tampa, what they pay in Citi Tax is ad valorem millage Hillsborough County and I believe they may be have hospital districts or be a different county. I think they're approaching 15 or 16 mills and we don't have a dedicated hospital district. But we do contribute a big chunk of money for a chance. The Spiel, Duval Medical Center and that we're doing at 11.1 mills is that. >> Our current millage rate when 9, 1, 9, Okay. What is 11.0? 1, 9, 1, 9, 0, k. So I think that >> we need as citizens. We need to be appreciative. We had a group of civic leaders who in 1967 Mr. Yates Hand wrote on that napkin in the Robert My hotel and it used to be framed somewhere in the building. I don't remember where it is now. It's been a number of years. I have seen it, but it is framed or was framed and exists. The actual napkin with on which she wrote the request to the Duval delegation for the local Government study Commission. And I think we need to be very thankful for the foresight that those civic leaders had 14, the path that ultimately became consolidation. I'm convinced we have an economy of scale that doesn't exist any real anywhere else in the United States. And I think we need to be aware of that. And, you know, not settle. I think we can always look for more economies and and if we can reduce expenses somewhere we can. As mentioned Tallis said we can have better minutes and city services without having to have an inordinate tax increase where we can skan tin you to provide maybe nominal but still drew duck shuns in the millage rate as our tax base grows to. Thank you very much for coming in and entertaining are questions pre Shia to very much. >> Well, thank you for inviting me and happy to answer the questions and thanks to Michelle for being my sidekick who just nodded her head and said the ire on the right track incuding so much. >> So with that, the spending committee will be adjourned and we will convene. I don't think we have a very long agenda remaining, but we will now move into the true commission. And I failed at the call to order of the first time, but I will do so. Now we need to approve the minutes, but we do not have a quorum. So we will have to defer this action to a future meeting date and Mr. Carter Geovany presentations think I have one on it. Okay. If you could bare bones and then I want to give Mr. Lors as much time as he needs. >> Through the chair, the commission, the counselor's office has released one report since last year commission meeting report number 907, the property appraiser. The portability calculation on it is released on August 3rd and the focus of this audit was the save our homes, portability transfer calculation performed by the property appraiser's office. This also met our requirement that we audit a constant each constitution officers once every 5 years. The Florida statutes of allows a homeowner moving from one property in Florida to another property in Florida transfer part or all the summits does their difference between the assessed value in market value from their previous homestead property to a new property? And then the scope of our audit was the portability applications processed the 2025 tax roll. And there are 2,524 parcels that received a portability transfer and on the Duval County tax Roll and a value of 311 million, 369,379 dollars. Overall, we found a property appraiser appeared to have correctly calculated the save our homes, portability, transfer amounts. What we found. We had found some internal control issues with the standard operating procedures. We found there were some missing necessary items related to the portability process. The pot, some of the policies procedures did not appear to be official and approved and did not indicate their prove or was the date of this peas that were approved. Arrests last updated and then some sections contained, outdated and incomplete information. We had finding a we've during detailed testing. We found 2 out of 149 and portability amounts recalculated were incorrectly calculated. This resulted in portability amount being overstated by a $9,160 in property taxes under bill by $1518.81 additionally during some and during our analytical testing to review the listing of multiple prove applications with the same previous real estate number, we found one out of 14 portability amounts recalculated were calculated incorrectly. This resulted in the portability being understated about 37,004 $39 in property taxes over Bill by $664.22. the property. Appraiser agree with both of our findings indicated that they would be updating this peas and that they've already corrected the calculation errors and we'll look for additional ways to help prevent calculation errors in the future. >> In a situation like that is taxpayer rebated the overpaid taxes. >> Is that are credited any other questions? One of the certainly just for you all as information, I'm sure you already know this. But Finance Committee budget hearings for the for the budget. A proposed budget for 26. 27 will start next Thursday. August 13th has meeting one. So that concludes my report. >> Thank you very much. All right. So what we will do next as we move over to item 4 on the True Commission agenda, PSG subcommittee discussion of data that will be next. And then I would like to make my comments and then we will bring nothing item of new business and commissioner comments where Mr. Youngblood can introduce himself appropriately said, All right. So in that respect to this move, to Mr, Lures the public Service Grant subcommittee. >> And so I managed to take the data that was provided to me by the council auditors office. And I was able to make a data set where we combine where I combined the PSG payments and the and the direct contract payments and was able to have a calculated for each individual payment, a questionable rate, meaning that it's either him properly supported or there was no support for that documentation. And I managed to create a column where, you know, it's a if employees councilmember, it's one else. It will be 0. The unfortunate thing about it is that there's only 2 such organizations there and that report, which is the Clara White mission for obviously Jacoby Pittman and the Fire Watch Project, which is obviously not Allen's organization. So I don't have any findings because it simply just a very underpowered >> amount of data. >> But regarding the Clara White Missions reports is that it appears that almost every single dollar that they tested was either insufficiently supported or had absolutely no support, which is obviously a serious ethical concern, given that she's a council member. Yes, sir. So this is from report that the council auditor did yes. So to clarify its, you could go a little bit more detail, a great that that is just an observation. Yes. So that is the grandson Compliance Division audit number 901. >> Which in which the council auditors office looked at payments from the public service grant program and also direct contracts and looked at whether these payments had times that insufficient support or no support. And from that, they were able to calculate out of all of the money that was paid out. How much was either had insufficient or no support? >> What would be the dollar amount and maybe the percentage of total? >> For just in general. >> I believe it was about 35%. So out of the 1.3. And this is kind of treading ground. We did talk about this previously. But out of 1.0, 3 million, about $477,000 or was insufficiently supporter had no support, which is about 35% of that. >> And were those expenditures direct a grant or a piece of public service grant dollars or direct contract dollars? So I believe if you can, is there, in fact, is there sufficient information to break that out? >> Yes, but so the goal of for this was to look at and I'm gonna get into this. Believe in a car can be very helpful in this regard to build a more robust data set that I can test this hypothesis. But I wanted to look at whether organizations that are run by council members have higher rates of insufficient or no support payments relative to organizations that are not run by council member. Because if that is the case, then we can see that maybe we can make some conclusion that maybe they're taking liberties or maybe there's something sufficiently wrong with Councilmember running an organization that receives public money. So we maybe could advance an argument that. >> Organizations that employ a city council member are receiving preferential treatment. >> Is that your basic either that or on either that or they're just kind, they're just kind of more flooding can be and many different explanations. >> So my question to you and this Carter is regard and the this this type of audit is this a quarterly audit is an annual audit. What is the frequency of of this audit and over what time, period? >> I don't have the audit report in from the but this this was just this is just an audit that was done as part of our risk assessment start. So it's not an annual audit that I know of that's done this, that it thing like that quarterly. It was this just an audit that will have a follow-up done in the future. But to see if are, you know, to find these are recommendations were addressed, but us. But as far as the frequency, that to my knowledge, it's not a it's not an annual audit chair said because the. >> Excuse me real quick. So this is odd at number 9, 0, 1, 9, 0, 1, Yes, I so would would you for next month? I'd like to want to keep this topic on the agenda for next month course will bring. We'll come back to this under business from previous business. And then I'd like to. But if you could explain, maybe the pram owners that Mister Lors has explained in the audit report and let's dig a little bit deeper into that. >> Yeah, well, there's actually what I would like to propose is maybe that there's some sort of study or something like that that and which we can maybe randomly sample payments over some longer time horizon and be able to look at whether these organizations that employ council members, whether they have higher rates of insufficient or no support payments. Because if I could get a much more robust data set where it could be over a long longer time horizon, then I can conduct I, you know, statistical analysis that is rigorous and, you know, sufficiently powered and then we can draw from that some generalized conclusion about whether you now these organizations that employ council members are involved council members in some way and have those higher rates of sufficient rinse, no support payments. And I think that would be very valuable to the public. So something like that is possible or if we can have some sort of study like that. I think that would be absolutely phenomenal. >> Did dip. Was there any evidence that the other organization Firewatch didn't have any in incorrect or insufficient? Their questions rate was about 3 to 4 percentage points higher than the average. But considering this is just a one-off risk assessment. I don't know. I don't know what I don't know if you can draw any real conclusions from that data. Do the council auditor in a situation like this? It is there. Do you have the latitude to you do a more frequent audit of organizations and employees, City Council members? >> That would be called for the council auditor to make. However, you know, I will say that and the not having the the the audit in front of me, the objective of the audit was to make sure that, you know, these organizations were receiving payments, a subjective but out. I'm not sure on that. I'll have to I find out the data that was collected. I know Mister Parks, Hudson of some data to you and I will have to see what is for that, of course yet because >> thank my deal for a data set would be it looks at payments that are made to organizations under the PSU program or the direct contracts program. And it looks at, you know, you take a look and you say, OK, this dollar amount is insufficiently support at this time out is has no support. And then I can calculate from that some rate. But the issue obviously is because there's only 2 such organizations and that's like I know over over. I'm sure over the last 20 years it's been more. It's been like significantly higher. So that would be a kind of my goal of the ideal for for that data set 20 years. >> An announcer 20 years, but over a long period of time, a longer period of time where there's more there are more payments that I can be able to it was. >> Is it your intention to continue to do some research and then to issue a formal written report to the commission? >> Yes, that would be that would be the preference that there could be that there could be some recommendations, perhaps I just at council level where, you know, maybe there's some legislation that says this is a real problem in this is like there needs to be more stranger reporting requirements are there needs to be more stringent oversight of these organizations relative to an organization that does not play councilmember. >> Mr. Carter, could you provide that audit to Colleen and if calling, if you could distribute that to us as soon as possible? So we have some time to digest this and then we will come back in September and we'll continue this discussion. How does that sound? That sounds perfect. Also, are that back to you kind of put that back up into your inbox, any comments or questions? Thank you very much. And then general, you had for your item. Yeah, right next, us, Mr. Day. >> Just to be clear, you're looking for data that is was outside of our audit. Are you looking for the data that was used in our audit? >> It could be if we could maybe do data outside like. >> Maybe this needs to be in. And it's entirely on study where, you know, maybe you have some sort of sample or not and then compare it to council member organizations you. >> I feel like Mr. Parts if him and the data that you use for that and I don't know appropriate would be to ask him to create the public record to create a record to fulfill that would make the threes give you something that they've already done. Of course, you know, we're so much. >> I will have to discuss that with the council auditor and then and Mr. Parkes Force. And then it may be something that has a truth commission or you may have to make a request to get the data. Yeah, it is that you're doing the a separate study outside of our audit. So that might be, you know, Matt. >> Well, just for that yet. But of course, there could be some data out there that might be able to do more better fulfill my requests. Yeah, I'm I believe it. He sent everything, but I'll I'll double check with him. Of course. Let you know that toward and that he both right now. Alright, others, no previous. I'm sorry. Next item is comments of the chair. The only thing I would say is as the budget has now been presented, I would ask that we begin reviewing the budget. >> And then as an item of new business, I would like to once again requests that each one of us take a part of the city budget and then report back at the September meeting, our impressions, our of quote, findings about our review. My my favorite category is up public safety which would include the sheriff's office and Jfrd Tyson. You want it. You look at last year. Don't remember not have the minutes for me. But do you want to tackle that again? Would you look at human and turning to the camera, take something out that that person okay. And then kind of just give us a quick overview you I think if you just kind of stay focused on this, you'll you'll have your hands full. >> Just come. Plan says a budget sent to the Office of Grants and Compliance has a budget bill presented the budget hearings like maybe you want to take that. That said that's a good idea. This young blood, you have any special interest in the city budget you'd like to dig into. >> Saying that you mention a jfrd and JSO pretty intimately familiar with those 2 agencies. >> We operate. But when we do this, let's divide and conquer. Once you take jfrd, I'm pretty familiar with the sheriff's office. I've done some extensive research in the past. >> And then we will report back to Perth. So on that note, >> we will move into commissioner comments and Mister Youngblood. We will give you the Prague to Vivint Entry. Introducing yourself and tell us little about yourself and if you have any ideas even like to bring to the commission chair. >> Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you for running an efficient meeting. It was a very smooth and I appreciate that. But again, Jeff Youngblood and been serving and in city government off and on for many years, but 30 years in business also served on the Charter Revision Commission, also served on public service grants for many years and now the privilege to serve with you. Ladies and gentlemen, here on the true commission been married for 33 years this month had 2 young children raising, went to public schools here in Jacksonville and been in business for 30 years here in Jacksonville. So I just intimate knowledge of the city and I love to help and love to be a part of answers and solutions. I probably have more questions than it answers. But interesting to see Mister Noon here. We've interactive for many, many, many years on all boards and commissions. And I think we'll see you're involved in the community and appreciate you being here. Also, thank you calling for this artist to our jurors task of keeping this all together. I appreciate that and all that you do. Thank you, Mr. Tyson giving comments, Mr. Lures. >> Technically my my term ended on I believe June 30th. I reached out to your dentist to start restart the appointment process. >> And he will probably reply to me. I my 50th birthday and thank so I'll just be waiting for a little bit. I'm glad you I'm glad you received the same treatment from him that everyone else receives. So he has no favorites. So that into until then you will continue to serve and to Europe placement hasn't been appointed and confirmed. So rest assured we look forward to having you with us for many, many years ahead. >> Knight who also has been and I have the 10 every place needed this to the waikele and hopefully by November poll, Brent, he will be present. But that should be here in September. My understanding is that the CPAC is going to vote on it next week, the 13th and then I'll take care of that awful Calcutta filed. We'll proceed with that. That was good. Is this your second term? >> You can serve a partial term and then 2 full te