City Council Meeting: August 24, 2020

the council calling the role back the clock calling roll council member gordo here. Council member kennedy there. Our madison here. Councilor masuda here. Council mayor mike austin or here council member wilson here vise mayor hampton, let's be here. Mayor torn here there's a quorum of the council present. Thank you. I'll ask council member mark austin to lead us in the pledge . Thank you. I believe in the flag. Over there and to the republic of which one way under God indivisible the envelop is for all. Thank you and and I will ask council member mark austin to make an announcement in the the ceremonial matter section. Thank you, mayor. As everyone knows, this year marks the one hundredth anniversary of women finally gaining the right to vote. And we have been celebrating that and planning a celebration of that in pasadena for many, many months. Like everything else, the kobe pandemic attacks are our plans as well for a big rally in centennial square. A lot of other efforts to celebrate this event but due to some very clever and fast work by some of our city staff and and the the teams we have transitioned to a 100 percent virtual social media campaign using the hashtag vote cause we can't an through this hashtag which will be launched on wednesday. women's equality day we will be encouraging women to upload videos and share why they vote. We have downloadable zoom backgrounds and facebook backgrounds and we have a whole branded zune campaign ready to go which we will launch on wednesday women's equality day. I also want to mention as a part of a lot of our social media campaign we will be outlining three iconic buildings in pasadena with the colors of the women's suffrage movement gold and purple and that will be city hall will be uplift from dawn to dusk as will the rose bowl will transform their lighting to celebrate the women's suffrage movement as will the pasadena convention center. So I hope you all pay attention and have a look and look forward to the many events we will be hosting on social media. Our campaign is largely designed around voting. Well, voting registering to vote and so we will be running it from August 20 6 through election day. Thank you murder. Could you repeat the hash tag you're done please. Hashtag is vote. Can we can because we can like me usc and that will be going live on wednesday and the the lighting effects on those three iconic structures will be one day on this coming wednesday. Impossible. A couple other venues May be able to keep it longer. But city hall will be a one day one night I should say lighting celebration. ok. Well, I think it's great that your committee has been able to pivot and deal with what we've all got to deal with and this is an important event in the history of our country. And so I think it's great that that it's recognized your best means. Thank you for all your hard work and thanks to all the members of the staff and the committee that have been working on this all these months. We will adjourn this evening with a moment silent thought and prayer for victims of the kobe pandemic cities and blessed in terms of not having a lot of fatalities to report but we're still having havoc wrought on our community and so many people suffering as a result of this pandemic. And it would appear that while people are paying more attention and making a bigger effort not to transmit this virus, we're still all struggling with the effects of it. And so we will we will have our moment of silence at the close of the meeting about that. We will now move to the consent calendar. We have comments on items 1 and 2. So those will will have separate initiatives. Can we have a sweep motion for the balance of the consent calendar so moved against that can let's have a roll call on the on the balance of the items. Mr. Clerk. Thank you, mayor. councilman record. Yes. Customer kennedy yes. Councilman Madison. Yes. Councilman Masuda yes. Customer mc austin. Yes. Council member wilson yes. Vise mayor hampton yes. Mayor talk yes. The motion is approved without opposition and we have the public comment on item 1. >> Mr. Clark yes. >> mayor so for item number one it was submitted by phyllis chest chest. Altadena resident re agenda item 1 for the 1 million nine hundred sixty six thousand dollar increase in the public health department and departmental fte by six full time equivalent please approve this item and hire within 30 days or less with will this epidemiology analyst's job be remote assignment due to the covered nineteen? Will the past senior management association or the administration and finance division of the department of public health? City of pasadena conduct the interviewing and make the hiring decisions. I also suggest the job requirement for the epidemiology analysts must include appropriate level of education and experience. I suggest that the salary should be in a more competitive range of ninety seven thousand five hundred six to one hundred sixteen eight hundred sixteen that completes the question. The staff from council members about item number one mayor. Oh sorry. There was also one letter in support for that item. I think you can use bart not as their emotion. I remember I had a quest virtually God bless marion and I'm just hoping that this comes back to us sooner than later for the health department. I've asked on numerous times about you see your care facilities and how the health department would be in better sorry investigating or inspecting those on a regular basis but also with everything that happens in our city whether it be a car accident, whether it be a I officer involved shooting there should be agreement counselors out from our health departments that are engaging with our citizenry and that is actually not happening. The sad state of affairs because things like this happen in our residential neighborhoods or or let me take that back when something like this happens to when something like this happens our city staff actually is able to get those services but our residents do not have that access. So it needs to be denied so that we can make sure that our residents actually some access to those types of services will . Thank you. Vise mayor ernie, further questions about this item as it relates to the epidemiology and laboratory capacity their motion to move. Roll call please. second was by Councilman Mark austin, customer of gordo yes. Customer kennedy yes. Customer madison yes. Councilman Masuda yes. Councilman Mark austin yes. Customer wilson yes. Vise mayor hampton yes. Mayor talk yes. Motion is approved without opposition. All right. Item 2 with regard to restoring the plastic bag ban in the city, we have a number of comments Mr. Clark. Yes, mayor please read those as required. Yes, the first one is from mary ville in a waiver passing a resident deer council members as passing a resident. >> I care about the health of our community in an environment I strongly encourage you to support agenda item number two and reinstate the city's plastic bag ban the use of single use plastics has increased significantly during cove at 19 the vast majority of this plastic an estimated 93 percent will not be recycled as it has no market value given the very serious and pressing implications for climate and environment. These realities underscore the need to do more to eliminate non recyclable waste in the city. Please take this step and continue to move forward with the implementation of the zero city's zero waste plan from ben lee passing a resident as a district resident who believes that eliminating pollution and single use plastics is a moral obligation. >> I support the un suspension of the plastic bag bag ban. We need to do this for the health of our future generations of pasadena. Thank you. Thanks for your time from susan dombrowski. Passing a resident is crucial. At that pasadena reinstates the plastic bag ban. These bags never decompose. Micro plastics are in are in what we eat, what we breathe, eat and drink. Attacking our endo and growth crying system endocrine system. They they litter our streets, storm drains, parks and waterways. Cleanup is expensive. If they get through the water filtration systems they move on to harm ocean life. They also pile up in our landfills at increasing cost to our city and taxpayers. From cheryl auger alhambra a pasadena plastic bag is used on average for only 12 minutes each year 500 billion to one trillion plastic bags are estimated to be used worldwide. There is no recycling facility that I am aware of in california or the us that recycles plastic bags. A large portion of these plastic bags end up as pollution littering the earth or the ocean causing deaths of thousands of marine animals who ingest plastics plastic or get entangled in them. As mentioned on March on May 4th the centers for the centers for disease control and prevention cdc has stated quote transmission of novel coronavirus to persons from surfaces contaminated with the virus has not been documented. End quote please end this senseless suspension of the bag ban. The city shouldn't carelessly create excessive generation of senseless non recyclable waste that will last hundreds of years on this planet from wesley ruderman pasadena. The high cost of our addiction to cheap single use plastics is more clear than ever. Unlike glass bottles or aluminum cans, plastics cannot be melted down one for one and constant reconstituted as the same item. At best plastics quote recycling is a misnomer. A more honest description would be quote down cycling as the quality of plastics are diminished as it is melted down overseas processing of plastics has also had an interest li checkered track his track record with the high health and environmental costs of largely unregulated quotes recycling practices imposed on low income communities in east asia. Gone are the days that municipalities can in good faith ship plastics abroad and think they will be down cycled in a manner that does not harm the planet or people with few alternatives to offshore our own mess. Communities across the united states are now grappling with the unwelcome reality that plastics have no recycled value and a very high disposal cost. Perhaps this development is for the best. The issue has truly come to a breaking point as a community pasadena needs to re implement its policy on single life and use plastic bags and begin to take further legislative action to reduce single use plastic upstream. Your leadership on this issue is needed. Thank you from iowa sarah mcnaughton passing in dear council members as a passing a resident who cares about the health of our community environment. I strongly encourage you to support agenda item number two and reinstate the city's plastic bag ban the use single use plastics has increased significantly during covered 19 and these are substantially the same comments as the first commoner as is the next one from blair miller. It's substantially the same comments encourage strongly encouraging to support agenda item 2 from jonathan leavy. Dear mayor dear honorable mayor warnock esteemed city manager M.L. Council persons staff I am writing to urge you to reinstate the cs plastic bag ban plastic bags pose a triple threat to our city. First and foremost they cost businesses a lot of money. A few cents might seem negligible but when doled out by the hundreds and thousands or thousands each day the cost adds up. Second, there are absolute. There are absolutely zero markets to recycle plastic bags which means they contaminate the recycle system stream clogging up the conveyors which increases the cost of processing the recyclables with actual value commodities such as plastic bags are a huge contributing factor to the astronomical tonnage fees charged by the recycling facilities. Third and foremost plastic bags. Harm the entire community when they are littered on our streets green spaces and in our storm drains the city businesses and residents all bear the burden of dealing with plastic bags and carrying both direct and indirect costs that go above and beyond the 10 cents fee levied by the band. City council I urge you to please take proactive leadership on this issue by reinstating the plastic ban. Sincerely jonathan leading from david cutter as a pasadena property owner and business owner who cares about the health and environment of our community? I strongly urge you to support agenda item two and this is substantially the same comments as the first commenter from grown-up ports south pasadena resident dear. >> city council members I am writing to urge that urge that you do not suspend the plastic ban in pasadena. The cdc reports that kobe 19 virus remains up to three days on plastics reusable and paper are much much safer options. The state of california has lifted the temporary suspension and most of your neighboring cities like south pasadena have done the same. We've done so much progress in diverting these one used plastics from entering our oceans and polluting our environment. I want everyone to be safe to buy plastic bags are not the solution. We have to think about the irreversible effects that inviting all this plastic back into our lives will have. Thank you. And from molly maura beto san francisco police and suspend the plastic bag ban and completes public comment on this item. Thank you, clark. Oh, I'm so sorry. >> there was seven letters that were received expressing support for the proposed action and two letters were receive providing comments. One letter recommended grocery store workers opinions on the matter be considered and the other letters stating the reusable bags should not be allowed in the markets. Thank you. This was always intended as a temporary measure just to be consistent with what the governor had done and because the markets in the early days of the pandemic were not permitting people to use their reusable bag. The governor has all banned state by ban and pasadena has been attempting to just be consistent with what what we used to have and also with what the state currently has in place. I welcome all the comments from those that we're not happy with the fact that we ever made an exception and they're anxious to get our original ban which came before the state ban back in place. So are there any further questions for staff? Is there emotion, motion to approve? Thank you, Mr. Masuda. The second package that tremendous magoffin please call the roll cast member gordo. Yes. Councilman Kennedy. Yes. Councilman Madison. Yes. Councilman Masuda? Yes. Councilman Mic austin katz. Member wilson yes. Vise mayor hampton. Yes. Air torn ic yes. The motion is approved without opposition. Thank you. That complete the consent calendar will now move to item six under old business. The creation of a community police oversight commission and an independent auditor and I would call on the chair of the public safety committee. Council member. Well, thank you very much, mayor and my colleagues for a lot of reason. This whole issue has taken on new meaning for our community, our police officers do a great job day in and day out but the community is saying to all of us something more needs to take place. The more May be in front of you today and if it isn't in front of you today, certainly all of you and the mayor have an opportunity to weigh and to provide leadership on where we need to go to provide if at all. Community oversight of the pasadena police department with what has happened in our country. It seems that something needs to be done and there is a pathway forward that I believe the council is in a good position to adopt that would support our men and women in the policy in the police department and would give the community a sense that we are empathetic to their concerns, particularly those in the community who are of ethnic groups that seemingly believe that they are over police. So we have that opportunity. We have the possibility that all of you will have provided your comments if not earlier in previous meeting certainly have that opportunity today and hope that we can unanimously approved a model of that would answer the questions that the community has provided us as the elected leaders in this city. Obviously it doesn't go unnoticed that recently we had an officer involved shooting. We cannot really comment in detail about what really happened because there has not been a complete investigation of the facts. We defer to our leaders police department to do their job. We defer to our city manager to do his job and we defer to the entity that will be invited in to provide an in-depth review of the facts and then also for the community that May be watching they district attorney has a significant role in this process as well. so don't think that there are not processes employed that are fair processes that seek to do the right thing. But the community is saying right now it's not. We need additional transparency and oversight of the pasadena police department. And again, I'd like to command all of my colleagues for their serious consideration questions offers of how to craft a piece of legislation that we hopefully can obtain unanimous support. I as the chair of the public safety committee and somewhat disheartened that we haven't moved fast enough or faster. But having said that we are here tonight. We have the opportunity you might to give the community something to ask for. With that, as you know about mandatory training to have an integral role and bringing this to the council as not only the titular head of the pasadena city council but in some respect someone who is looked to to provide leadership for the council. Yes, for staff, yes. But also for the community. So I get it. The mayor does not necessarily have more power than any one member of the council. But collectively we have the power and I'd like to ask the mayor if he would lead us through the latest iteration of the possible ability of community oversight of the pasadena police department. I thank you for the opportunity to address my colleague, mayor and the council as a whole. thank you. Thank you, Mr. Kennedy. We have as you've heard from the clerk, lots and lots of public comment on this subject. So I'm going to be very brief. The the agenda report is pretty straightforward. The public safety committee has not made this proposal to the council although we have discussed it in a variety of meetings as depicted in this and this agenda report. We have a difference of opinion within the committee about process and what the starting point should have been and what the starting point might be. I want to restrict my remarks very briefly to the changes in the specific proposal that that's been authored and before you today which I'll refer to is now the August 24th proposal not by any particular authorship and the August 24th proposal the difference between the July twenty seventh proposal and the August 24th proposal is in two areas with regard to the and they're both in response to both comments from city council members and the public because there's been a great deal of public engagement and each of you can talk about what you've heard from your respective constituents. But with regard to the composition of the commission, the sort of standard composition of having one commissioner appointed by city council member individually and then perhaps a representative from the appointed by the city manager and by the police chief and then three community representatives has now been modified to reflect the strong position held by many in the community and some of the council members that they should not be a traditional appointment process. And while the commissioners should be appointed by by the council ultimately that the process of selecting the commission and soliciting volunteers and vetting those volunteers should be a much more public process more akin to the process that the council goes through when we interview prospective interim council members when when there's an unexpired term of the council a council member. So the proposal not specified in detail but generally would allow for the have a more public vetting process of the membership with suggestions brought back to us at the time that the staff comes back with the ordinance language. But it would include an opportunity from the community to have a very public process in terms of the vetting of the membership of this commission and and potentially the establishment of targets for the composition of the commission having to do with demographic considerations and geographic considerations. And then the other significant change relates to the ipa the independent police auditor. It is suggested based on strong resistance to the idea of having the ipa appointed by housed in the city manager's office the recommendation before you today as move that venue and appointment process to the city attorneys office as a locus for the high with the cooperation of the commission and the hiring of the ipa. The ipa would be lodged in the in the city attorney's office rather than the city manager's office. And finally that because there's been such a it's been made such a litmus test frankly of whether or not the the auditor or the ipa would have the ability to be as well-informed as they needed to be in terms of their their investigatory function as well as sort of informational function that the ipa would have subpoena power expressly limited as described in the agenda report that information obtained and report reviewed by the ipa as well as reports issued by the ap ipa could not be used to impact any disciplinary or personnel decisions. The intent there is not to trip the charter wire and also not to create a situation where information developed as a result of the subpoena power which I think would be frankly largely redundant could not be used in a way that violates any state privacy statutes. So those are the modifications from the last time that we've had this discussion. I would say that that it's clear that some believe that this proposal doesn't go nearly far enough, that we need a much more far reaching kind of police oversight. There are some that believe that the process has been flawed and hence the product is inevitably flawed and we'll have that discussion tonight amongst ourselves. What I would say is that this process was intended to reflect a sense of urgency which is which is unbelievably now been made even more urgent as a result of the officer involved shooting last week. I'm hopeful that the council can take affirmative action on this proposal tonight. The community would like to see us feel strongly that we should be taking positive action. As council member kennedy said, this is not viewed as the as the end of the process but rather the end of the beginning of the process and I hope that we recognize that that it's important. While it's very important to get started on the road of of civilian oversight and independent oversight that it will evolve as conditions evolve and as we gain information from this experience. So that is my very brief report . I don't know if if the council feels it would like to take a lap now and have discussion about my comments or what the agenda report has to say or whether you want to. We're obviously going to have an hour's worth at least of public commentary read to us. So I welcome your suggestions in terms of whether you want to do two laps or one lap what you'd like to do. Council member wilson followed by Councilman Mark austin and nassim. Thank you john and mayor for continuing to provide leadership on this. I didn't want to get into the substance but I had just to process questions so we're all on the same page. There's still a number of open questions around the committee composition and size what the mix would be maybe how the selection process gets kind of articulated had some questions about training and then how this committee or commission would work with public safety. Those are all open questions I guess I'm trying to figure out if if we take action today how do we kind of get the granularity how this would work mechanically from where we are today to something that actually could be operational? I'm just not clear. Well, it's my response to that. It's my expectation that we haven't concluded as a body that we are motivated or in agreement that we should even have a commission. And I felt that before we began to do that. As you say, the granular sort of granular level decision making about whether 9 or 13 we'll get a apart from the threshold issue of having a commission that would be appointed by the county ruling that some of those more granular decisions about the specific number and what the what the public process might look like because I think what I'm looking for what's been suggested is somewhat innovative process before we drove into those details and that the staff could come back with those by way of of alternatives and recommendations to us. >> but unless we can get past this sort of first issue, I think that we think that makes sense at this time. It didn't seem that it made a lot of sense to to engage in some of those details so that those would be forthcoming today's vote. If we take one we'll be just on the issue of whether we should in fact have a community police oversight commission and whether we should have an ipa if we can. If we can establish consensus on that, then I think the the rest of the details follow your sense as I know you join margaret on kind of getting this together. This would be the granularity would be delegated to staff to start kind of working on that type of if we hopefully move forward and I'll just show my cards on the dash would be staff assignment to come up with kind of a more detailed information about some alternatives without further council discussion and look. Thank you. That's helpful. I'll see my other comments for after the. All right. I think Ms. Magoffin with matt. Thank you, mayor. I intend to respond to your initial question but just following on what what that council member wilson said if we were to take a vote let's say early enough in the evening that we weren't all worn out, we would still. Would it be possible that those of us that have further ideas and suggestions if the threshold decision was taken that we could put those on the table through staff with tonight? Ok. Thank you. So then in terms of your question about how the meeting should unfold today, I think I would recommend that we hear all the public comment first and then we have our council discussion. That means we've gotten I think good a magnitude much forgive me. I'm trying to keep notes on the queue. Thank you america. I was there. I have some questions and what I'd like to do. >> I have some questions for staff and then some questions for the proponents and I if if it's ok, I'd like to ask them now so that if there's homework as it were, perhaps that can be at least begun while we're handling other parts of the meeting. So the first question was I mean I have to say, mayor, I was surprised at the at the agenda report. It's it's two pieces of paper on what is undoubtedly I think we could all unanimously agree is a substantial, significant and important new policy direction for the council. And so I was disappointed that we didn't have the benefit of all the other material that we've received on this. And apropos of that, I mean I think many of us do have the prior staff reports or we can access them online. But you know, just for these two pieces paper I had asked that staff pick up the phone and call the consultant from four years ago and see if there was any update to best practices. You know, we've covered a lot of ground in this country in the last four years and certainly even in the last year around police oversight. So did. May I ask the city manager was an effort made to update the data that we had from four years ago? Thank you, Mr. Madison. >> yes. Two things to report related to that. We made contact with the consultants that did the work back in 2016. They gave us a price quote to go back and update their analysis. We did not engage them further separately. The staff of our library department were good enough to take the the cities that were listed in the 2016 analysis and try to update the analysis to see whether it's been any changes or not. I regret that I haven't been able to finalize what they put together to share that with the council for today's discussion. I was quite swamped last week with other matters but I'll try to as we sit here and certainly clark is reading the voluminous public comment. I May be able to see if it's in final form so we can share that with you for your discussion today. >> what was the quote from the consultant? I'll need to double check but I think it was somewhere like the high just under twenty thousand dollars to go back and update the information but I'll have that in a moment as well. And I take it that you did not engage the consultant to do that. No, there was no way to to get that turned around in order for this meeting. If the council wants that work done, we can certainly do that. But it was not going to happen in time for today. So I thought that the library using the web based tools that they have to do some reach search was the best way to go. And just regrettably I wasn't able to review it prior to this meeting but I think I can do it now. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Morelli. So the the memo from the mayor and Mr. Kennedy asks for a recommendation that an ordinance be prepared and come back to the council within 30 days or discussion and adoption I guess. And the the memo concludes in part that the proposal is intended implemented immediately. So that sounds a little bit to me at odds with the idea that there'd be a lot of granular details that would be decided later and I think respectfully moving beyond that the detail. The devil is in the details around police oversight. I know we've talked before about what a complicated legal environment this is. so you know, the details are extremely important to being able to do something not just the robust and progressive but also legally sound and to not expose the city. So I'm concerned about that on one of those points as if I could ask the staff Mr. Normal or perhaps now this is over in Ms. Bonner reece's bailiwick because of the recommendation. But what's the fiscal impact of the recommendation that sits before us today? Council member madison that hasn't really been analyzed with any great length. >> obviously if we were to establish a commission we would need to staff it. So there is some cost so small that if I don't if I don't want you to do this on the fly. >> I mean if you look at the rest of our agenda today and it's a light one we've already adopted two items. One has a fiscal impact statement. Number two has a fiscal impact statement fact I think it May be a legal requirement for a council to take an action that there be a fiscal impact. Am I correct about that? A statement of fiscal impact that would be a legal question on deferred not a legal requirement. >> we've we've set that up as procedure in our agenda reports to have that as one of the model provisions. But it's not a legal requirement for. So there is no legal requirement cities before taking action. >> we have a statement of fiscal impact. Are you sure about that, michel? >> well, I haven't researched it but I know for many years many public agencies have approved items that don't have fiscal impacts specified. There are probably some that would require that. I don't think this falls in that. So then going back to our procedures. This this report would not comply with the procedures that the staff holds itself to in terms of including us fiscal impact. Sometimes the fiscal impact says unknown at this time. So there I go when I say a procedure it's a template. Yeah I mean I think it's good practice to have the fiscal impact whatever it is we're describing and I'm not saying that that's controlling here but I don't know again on a report that says it shall be implemented immediately. And the next step would be an ordinance that we approve. Doesn't sound like there's any opportunity for us to have a fiscal impact when ordinances come back to us. There's no fiscal impact statement. It's simply the ordinance is presented for first reading. So and it sounds like nobody has done the work to try to calculate even on the back of the envelope what what the fiscal impact is here. I speak mayor but not of my questions are for the staff. Mayor and when you initially do i'll give the respondents the opportunity when and initially I think that you are going to speak. You said they would be for the author here. Really? I have limited time here. American. Let let let council member madison. Question. Sure. So am I right? Well, it seems that nobody's calculated the fiscal impact of what's proposed. Council member madison I think you're correct it would depend on the greatest costs would be associated with the independent auditor. If it's a contract auditor that costs would be different and if it's a staff position that discussion hasn't been determinative as to how that function would be provided. Again, I think it's a negligible cost as it relates to establishing a commission. But that that goes with it would have to be analyzed to determine the cost. Obviously if the council felt it was an important enough matter to proceed with the costs would be to some extent just just a fact. And in terms of our yeah sorry michel I was just going to say in terms of the fiscal impact as a result of an independent prosecutor, independent police auditor and the city attorney's office we'd have to look at how broad that authority would be the scope of that authority as well as what types of ethical wars would need to be in place. >> and looking at outside legal expenses etc.. So it's it's undetermined at this time. The and is that something that your respective departments could calculate force if we ask you to? We could certainly try. Based on whatever the scope is . My next question for the staff is about the sort of the legal contours of this proposal. And here again I have to confess it's not clear to me what we would be implementing immediately as the memo says and and what the ordinance would say that we'd come back in 30 days. But I mean the first step would be independent auditor report to respond to race. Do you have a sense of that since it's apparently been put the passive voice is used in the memo but near as I can tell it's being put under your direction. It does appear to be proposed to be under the direction of the city attorney and it's not clear whether that would be a contract and someone who's not a city employee or a city employee. >> so that would depend on how it's directed from the council . And then there's also a reference to the commission being involved. So we would just desire to have better clarity on on that because I want to be clear here and my questions and I'll have comments later and I'll have a specific alternate proposal later. but you know, I think we should move forward but I believe that the city council has the powers to run the city, nobody else. And michelle, would you agree under the charter that's that's the case. >> you say run the city that I'm not. You know, we have a city manager form of government. We have a city council. So it depends on what area you're referencing. >> well, so for example, the charter provides that all powers of the city are vested in the city council subject to the provisions of the charter. >> right. So my my preference I think what people are talking about when they write to us and I've gotten many communications from my constituents in opposition to the proposal that that's before us today is that it's not independent enough and to me the truest independence given that all powers to run the city are vested in the council would be to the council. >> so I mean do you under the charter, michelle and under that code do you view this as being consistent with your duties as city attorney to supervise an inspector general who would the exercising oversight over the police department? Because I can't find that anywhere in the charter that that would be consistent with your powers. >> I don't read this as giving the city attorney oversight over the police department and the charter does say as well as the municipal code it outlines certain responsibilities and other duties and responsibility he's as directed by the council. So it would depend on what those responsibilities and roles are. But there are potential bases for an independent police auditor to be housed in the in our office subject to very carefully defined and implemented ethical walls that would have to be carefully crafted and consistently applied. So you're right. Are you referring to both divisions of your office, the city prosecutors work with the police department to investigate and prosecute crimes and the civil division which defends the police department in litigation. Yes. So aren't there inherent conflict there and you're in your office in purporting to have robust oversight of the police department with an inspector general? Some May view that as a perception as I said it, it would require it. It is conceivable that it could happen and not result in a conflict but it would require very carefully crafted ethical walls be in place and when they have to run. I'm sorry. Forgive me. No, I was just going to say we did we would have to determine the extent to which additional staffing would be required to ensure that everything is segregated. that needs to be segregate or if more is referred outside if the independent auditor is a contractor as opposed to an employee. So there are some other factors that would come into play. I mean just to be clear just the what I'm reading in the memo isn't that there would be privileged by legal advice from the inspector general. This is the purpose I would hope would be for there to be reports that would be made public that would come to the council, for example, into the city manager and the chief about the way that we're conducting ourselves. Do you agree with that? That's my understanding. So what is it like when I'm struggling with I guess is in your view, michelle, what is it that the city attorney's office what role would the city attorney bring to that pursue? >> I think we would be the department that would if it's a contra act enter into that contract. >> my understanding is they would do more of their reporting to the commission and or the city council. I'm not clear what the role would be if it were a city employee that would potentially be more challenging but it would it would be potentially overseeing to ensure that the contract is implement it and followed consistent with its terms and other legal requirements follow so and then. >> would you review the performance of the inspector general in your view and make the decisions to hire and fire ? I would take direction from whatever the council's ultimate direction is. Well the council can give direction about employees now of our I'm the council's direction in setting it up. >> so if it's if it's again it depends if it's a contract or if it's an employee. And but in setting up the the arrangement so my reading of the charter that outlines the powers and duties of the city manager to me make it pretty clear that if this is a staff function as opposed to something that will report to the city council which is where I would like to see this be that it really has to be the city manager. >> I mean the city manager hans the exclusive power to exercise supervision and control over all departments divisions and offices of the city except for the city attorney, city prosecutor and city clerk. So the police chief and all of his or her employees sworn and unsworn ultimately report to the city manager. That's correct. So I mean really this position should reside and I think this was one of the original proposals. But perhaps it's changed because of opposition from some of my colleagues. But originally this was viewed as being part and parcel of the city manager's office because of those charter provisions. Am I right? It was originally proposed to be housed with the city manager. Yes. So Mr. M.L., I want to give you an opportunity to address that. >> don't you believe that if there's oversight to be exercised at a staff level within the city that that falls under your direction supervision just as the chief does? Sure. Council member madison. I'll answer it this way I have my opinions as to what I think is optimal. This is a policy level decision for the council to make and I know that the council is considering public input. There's perceptions on the part of people. But as I say, I do have my own opinions. Perhaps you'll you'll shield me from not having to disclose those because I see this is really up to the council. >> well, I don't want to put you in an awkward spot but I'd be disappointed. >> reading what I'm reading in the charter and the code and knowing that the chief and his department report to you I'd be disappointed if you weren't discomfited by the notion that the council's going to hurriedly set up some system where we put this into the city attorney's office even though it really isn't part of the city attorney's role under the charter. I do think and I know that there be people who disagree with this because of what they perceive as conflicts of interest or what have you. But if the police chief reports to the city manager if a city manager wants to ensure that the police department is operating properly and just as it does with our internal auditor that is resident in the city manager's office but freely report to the audit committee. So nothing's held back. But in terms of having that sort of circle of accountability, I think there is merit to having that report to the city manager because the city manager's neck if you will and if the police departments coming up short, they want the information directly from the auditor. They don't want it mediated. They want it straight and they need to be able to take action on it. Well, and I agree with that although I think optimally the city council again in who whose hands all powers are vested should be the principal recipient of the work of an auditor or inspector general. I mean if you look at for example, the county of L.A. They have a different system to be sure because they have an elected sheriff who has certain state constitutional authorities and responsibilities but they've established an inspector general who in a titular stance reports to the executive officer of the county. But whose work whose reports really are for the benefit of the board of supervisors and the community at large. And I think we should be aiming for the same kind of thing. And I'm I'm really troubled by this idea that we're putting the city attorney on the spot as sort of a quick band-aid for the concern of some about true independence. And I think, you know, at the county and lapd has a completely different model of course these are much bigger departments from ours but you know, I'd like to see us move in the direction of true independence which for my money and I I know I keep coming back to that is the city council. We're the ones who are accountable to the voters. And so either the person reports through the city manager's office to the council and the commission as they come on online, et cetera, but the idea of putting it in the city attorney I think creates conflicts of interest and creates a lack of independence and perhaps even more than the city manager and a real constitutional crisis under the charter because for example, michel, if you look at the code now section two point thirty point zero to zero. It outlines all the powers and duties of the city attorney nowhere which you find there anything that would include an inspector general to be reporting on some department that's within the city manager's is the city manager. It clearly does include that kind of thing as supervision of the department with the city manager path and then my next question is and I think michelle, I'd look to you here again to is there some troubling commentary in this memo about and again the passive voice is used? So it's full hard to pass but it's sort of like there would be a a natural dilution of the city council. Here's let me read it so I'm faithful to the text. It says it page 45 of the stub the entire agenda it's page three or four of this item modifications of the responsibilities of the city council public safety committee will be required so as to eliminate duplication of effort between the commission and the public safety committee. What I'm reading that as is the public safety committee no longer will have oversight to the same degree and the commission will now take the place of the public safety committee. And I'm michel. Do you read that the same way I actually read it very broadly. >> depending on what direction we get in terms of what's desire to be maintained with a public safety committee and what's what roles or desire to go to the newly created commission, ok. >> well, again, I'd mary you've been generous with me time wise and I appreciate I'll come back later with some more comments and I have an alternative proposal that I'd like to put on the table at that time. But before I can clear it, I would just say, you know, it's been a lot of discussion about the genesis of this proposal and you know, I want to give Mr. Kennedy, you and the mayor an opportunity to tell us how the proposal actually came together. i mean who's living room where is sitting? Well, what was the discussion? Where did you get the ideas that you got? Because I don't think that's how this this council should fashion policy on something so significant as this. And again, you May choose to continue to remain silent about that, but I think it's important information. We should have just as we would tell and ask the staff what the genesis of their discussions and deliberations were in coming forward with something. So thank you. Mr. Kennedy, I'm going to ask not to have a dialog in public. I will. I will allow to respond to that. I mean it be direct question to me. I think it would be more fruitful to allow the questions to all sort of surface and then try to maybe duplicate so if you like. I think it's I think that there was a question and I think it's a fair opportunity for there to be answers. Listen, brian, why you why I might be and May recognize me. I'm not seeking to answer Mr. Madison's question. Nathanson early. I would just simply say that on the issue of budget if we as a council have had an opportunity to read the I think it was voluminous report that came from I think attard and olsen in that report that provided some budget possibilities and I had thought that all the members of the council either four years ago or recently because each iteration of our discussions related to the possibility of community oversight passing the police department had shared that report. So it's readily available to all of the council members than the mayor as it relates to any proposal. I think it's been done in the light of day and the argument that anyone would raise on this council that it has not been in the light of day goes out the door because you've had an opportunity and continue to offer to have an opportunity to share what your brilliant thoughts are in particularly as it relates to the comment from council member madison. He said to all of his colleagues that he has an alternate proposal. I welcome his alternate proposal. And again, the subtlety of the attack is it's ok. I understand how we can be undermining of good of good behavior of responding to issues that affect one ethnic group more than any other ethnic or group or ethnic group. But the fact of the matter this is the light of day for all of the city council meeting is the light of day. So that no matter what recommendation any one council member or the mayor has it doesn't get move forward unless it in fact is discussed with the public and our colleagues on the council. That's just my brief way of addressing the remarks by the colleague Mr. Madison related to how was this crafted? It was crafted at the city council level and there are modifications even now that the council will say yes, no and like Mr. Madison says, I have an alternate proposal and I welcome that proposal. I think that's in keeping with good government. That's how we move forward as a council. Thank you. All right. I I will give a quick response to some of these issues that they were posed to us. There is no fiscal impact statement nor is there a sequel binding because it was not the expectation that this was going to be the final action that account to take. This was intended to be kind of a policy level determination to see if there was an appetite to move ahead with something approaching this proposal, not the final dispositive proposal. And I thought I responded to that in the context of council member wilson question earlier in terms of the the who the the ipa, the independent police auditor would report to. It was the expectation and I think is the expectation that the ipa would report to the city council and to the civilian oversight commission part of the value of this function is that it would provide staff support and expertise civilian oversight commission. And it is indeed the expectation that the civilian oversight commission would take on some of the responsibilities that currently vested in the public safety committee on the basis that they would be developed and they would be single purpose devoted just to oversight of the police department. They would meet more frequently than the public safety committee does. They would have a laser like focus on the department and ultimately they would bring their recommendations to the city council. So the council would not be abdicating its responsibility. But the public safety committee would not duplicate the work that the civilian oversight commission was doing more intensive and shorter interval based in terms of this whole issue of where the function is lives. The original recommendation was indeed that it be in the city manager's office saying that that would be the logical locus . The problem is that the public reaction to the to that recommendation was so overwhelming, so overwhelmingly negative from the point of view that having the same appointing having that function, having the ipa function lodged in the city manager's office where the which is the same appointing authority for the police chief seem to be insurmountable in terms of gaining the public's confidence that there would be some some different in some truly independent perspective here. And so the recommendation in terms of an alternative was moving it to the city attorney's office which has a series of other limitations. It's another imperfect hometown for the ipa. But I think that the the the crafting of the ethical walls that the city attorney was referencing can minimize that inherent conflict. The city attorney's office is engaged in that kind of those kinds of ethical challenges already in terms of the as we've discussed in terms of the ethical walls that have to exist between the city prosecutor and the city attorney. So that is a that is a process that they're familiar with in terms of the overall genesis of the proposal. We've been through this a couple of times. The genesis of the proposal came from the very detailed and lengthy and controversial discussions that we started back in 2016 and it bubbled intermittently. The process that we've gone through is not to go back to the beginning but to try to build on that discussion and extract as some of you have already divine to extract from the recommendations that came in the 2016 report one version of what it could be and use that as a jumping off point for where we might be headed and that was done in an effort to try to expedite the discussion and have us do in a couple of months rather than a year or more of what our process would ordinarily yield. And I think that sense of urgency is more acute than ever. and I think that the the while updating the all information would be interesting and would be a value. I think the council has been and is pretty well informed. And if ironic that the one of the christian the opening criticisms is that it's only two pages in fact it's four pages. But the last time the criticism was that we got hundreds of pages because the attachments were so voluminous because they were all the attachments that came from the 2016 study. And we also have of course the attachments that come from council member nick austen in terms of her district comments from district to constituents and all of the 600 plus comments that came to the city web site that we've all seen and the five or six supplement came and we're going to hear many of them in a few minutes. So I think there's not a shortage of exposition of public commentary here. And I think that the range of opinion on this issue is exactly what you would expect on an issue of this consequence in a community like that. To peter nunn and that is that there are those that feel that we can't do enough fast enough and those that feel that we probably shouldn't tinker with with our public safety construct because it serves us effectively and everything in between. So I hope that we can have affirmative discussion. I look forward to that. The suggestions that come from tonight's discussion among council members as well as the public commentary that we're going to hear them. And so the sequence now is vise mayor hampton followed by council member gordon. Thank you, mayor. So today we're talking about oversight. Since we're talking about oversight and most of the times some my colleagues believe that we are that oversight and since we are talking about oversight ,I would like to make a few comments as it relates to that. I just want to make it clear to the public as it relates to the video footage that was released with the incident of Mr. Mcclain how the aftermath video was released first. No city council member made that decision at least me as one city Councilwoman Did not see that video before it was released. Also the releasing of the video and the way it was released, you know, with a criminal background of Mr. Mcclain. I want everybody to know that as one city Councilman Myself I didn't see that footage. So I just want to make that clear because I want to see that footage and also I was able to have a discussion about how videos were released. I would not say that that would be the best order to release videos. And also I don't think Mr. Mccain's background is actually has any thing to do with what happened. Young man was shot in the back and that of course is changed from the blank to the back. So I do appreciate the police department and the city acknowledging that. So with that being said, while we are acknowledging things I have had to opportunity to see a series of e-mails from lots different sources that have shown with a silver object is the belief of the silver object is that is shown in the video that is being called a gun. There is an eminent k and it's very bright. I'm sure all my colleagues got that email last night always I thought everybody got one of those e-mails last night. Have you ever received you've probably received some emails similar to that from the clergy . And so I think it is important that the city if that is the case and that of that video was not altered the city needs to state that that could have been his belt buckle not calling it a gun because there's no guarantee that he had a gun. We just don't have that guarantee at this point. There is a gun that was found without dna evidence. We don't really know that it's his gun. With that being said, I have a couple requests while we talking about oversight because we want people to trust in our system that is important that we council and definitely me as individual individual council member also makes these requests publicly noted. So run my request is stopping cars for not having license plates. This weekend I just drove out all across the city of pasadena. and I just said maces ranch and I want to see how many cars in macy's ranch and not license plates. Then I just sat on my street and I wouldn't see how many cars in their front license plate it was in the police department went around stopping everybody with license plates. We would need thousands of officers on the street. So I think that is a practice that actually should stop. That's just I know that that is a code. But I many of you get it if you get you could get a parking ticket in the rear parking enforcement that actually enforces the fact that Mr. Mccain was the passenger and not the actual driver. The reason why you getting out a core reason why they were questioning or even chased him is is questionable. And so city attorney, I would like to understand and you want to answer this right now. I understand why the officer decided he needed to chase the passenger who actually had nothing to do with driving without with a suspended license. How would he know that his friend he was carlin had a suspended license number one. Oh, no, sir. No. Number three now the officer who shot Mr. Mcclain did not have his body one camera one and had plenty of time. Based video that I watch to actually do that and turn that camera on. So that is one check of being out a policy also. he shot at Mr. Mcclain. He shot Mr. Mcclain in the back. That's two because I don't believe shooting someone in the back is actually our training. There's no training that I found that so that. And so city attorney if you could show me that there's somewhere that the officers could shoot people in the back, please send that information and the public should have that information so that I could check that off. Also public endangerment one of the shots fired. Because I guess even have the grace aim actually went into someone's home. And if that if that person was standing at their front door at that moment they could have actually been killed by that shot. And there are pictures of that that are certainly just in case no one is seeing the pictures of the board that is actually made into someone's home. >> also on he turns on his body worn camera and so use body worn camera was off trying to. Interesting. I think that's out of policy as well during the why I'm just looking at everything I watched over the weekend. I watched this multiple times during the investigation of trying to figure out where the gun was. I mean if someone threw a clearly across the street and I can't you know, I'm not going to get in the mindset of anything if someone clicks through a gun clearly. Rusty, I believe you would be able to see that action happening if you're running behind them. This just coming from a sports background. So with that being said, he turn the camera off during the investigation by regulation his recollection about that policy that was of course the city council didn't have anything to do with um during the presentation public presentations that during investigation the lesson is very sensitive. They're talking to a righteous sort of suspect or a week or so a rape victim or someone that want to be on camera. That officer does not have the ability to turn off the camera during the investigation. This officer turned off his camera and that is another check. I'm checking this out because the reason why I mentioned it is because if we are to oversight right now, I would like to know why this officer has not been fired.