12122025 Noticed Meeting CM Peluso, Gaffney, Jr., and Pittman RE Jail Resolution

12122025 Noticed Meeting CM Peluso, Gaffney, Jr., and Pittman RE Jail Resolution — Dec 12, 2025

Alright, everyone. Alright, everyone calls mean order. Time. 101. One minute late. I believe a COUNCILWOMAN Pittman is on her way, but we are going to start real quick first off or do introductions to my sale. >> Ron Salem group to enlarge. >> Reggie Gaffney junior at the Geffen into yesterday. Jimmy Plus the District 7. Matt Carlucci at large group, 4. Excellent. Also joined here by the administration. We have Mike Weinstein attendants well as a yet Jimmy. That's a I'm sorry to say. We didn't on the agenda. This is actually meant to be pretty short. But we got a few public comment cards. So so we are going to go through those in a moment. But I just want to let everyone know what this resolution is really about. This resolution is about history, right? I mean, we know that in the city of Jacksonville few things that happened over the past several decades that that we probably can't correct entirely today. But what we can do is make sure that we're making strides to put ourselves in a place that we never do that again. Urban renewal was something that affected a lot of cities pretty much every major city United States and in doing so. A lot of beautiful structures. Lot of beautiful communities. >> removed and destroyed and cultures were dispersed. And so when I came into office early on, I want to make sure that we passed a resolution regarding redlining, which as many people in this audience now redlining was the it was a practice that was widely done throughout the United States. But the Federal Housing Administration provided these maps of major municipal areas. That specifically said where banks our have to have the most likelihood most likely have making their money back by by investing in certain areas and they especially if you read the different areas, there's of blue area, Green Area Yeller area and a red area. Right? And if you read the description of what a red line area was. And I don't have a description here, but it wasn't previous resolution that we filed it specifically said poor infrastructure, low-income, bad lighting, no sewer, no sidewalks specifically cited those things. And today you can still go in several of the communities that are redlined areas and they have the exact same problems. So we passed a resolution early on in our term and it was unanimous and he was we the city of Jacksonville recognize our role red lining and we as a city council want to make sure that we are moving forward doing everything we can to make up for and make up for in in the meeting that we would make sure that future decisions made by the city are going to keep redlining in mind and how we can combat that. With future decision-making. Fast forward to the conversations we've been having over the past year about a potential new jail being built the jail for the first things we did under count. Then council PRESIDENT Salem's tenure. I was fortunate to be to be a member of that committee and we looked at, you know, what could a new jail looked like? What would have what sort of new amenities currently doesn't have. And we didn't really talk about location because we specifically said, you know, let's let's talk about the things that if we were to build a new jail, exactly what it would have and how would kind be structured based on what new jails up like in the United States today. Because we didn't talk about a location. It made some members of the community, many people in here, many people in Jacksonville scratch your head and ask well, could it go? And if we look at some decision-making made by the city of Jacksonville, whether it be in the 1970's are up until recently. Some municipal and government buildings were built in neighborhoods. Probably should not have been built. And so I wanted to make sure that as we look at future jail potentially being built a Duval County that we specifically say because we have a map that we as a council of already approved on saying these are red line areas that we want to see us, correct our policymaking on that. We say we would not build a jail in the red line or the yellow areas. So I gave a very long description of why we're here. But at the end of the day was to make sure we are making early notice to anyone who wins an rfp or anyone who looks at new locations for the jail that they recognize the. History of this city that they recognize the areas. Where are we have discriminatory practices and to ensure that we do not do it again. Do I personally believe that a jail would be built in these areas? I do not. But I am not going to allow. I'm not going to silence community members by saying I don't think it's going to be out there. Don't worry, don't worry, guys. I doubt that it will happen. Because I think that's been said before. So so with that in mind, I thought a resolution I have to coach Duce ERs Council member just watched you do. I? I sit on a drive to introduce. There's about I thought I had to go do They cannot. But I but I am seeking a other colleagues understand where I was coming from. We all Sin City Council. We know the number of people that come up in and discuss a potential jail because a lot of rumors. That's the other thing about what this could mean. And this is meant to provide a little more clarity. So so I I we'll jump to would love to public comment at the end. An all-out by my colleagues come thoughts and I I'm gonna start down here. If you lie Kuzma quality and just got this like had cell. Thank you. Chair Plusa. And appreciate the opportunity. As you mentioned, we spent a great deal of time. >> And the 23 24 time frame looking at all the considerations of what a new jails should should provide for mental health to health care take several and the conclusion from all that was that spread out jail. No more than 2 fours, not the multi floor facility we have today. And I think that conclusion was that in order to do that, right, it would take several 100 acres property in order to do that. I've heard figures of between 200 and maybe even 400 acres. So if you look at that type of size, you It would be very, very difficult to put that anywhere near the Korea of town. And I'm glad MISTER Weinstein is here because I know there's there's a that should be awarded soon. I'm told for entity that will guide us through this process from soup to nuts. In terms of size and locations and all those kind of things. And MR. Blonston through the chair. Do you have a feel for when that award will occur? Might if you don't mind a Appreciate you being here. >> It's like, I see still a city employee. They basically we put rfp to get assistance in trying to locate potential 3 sites within Duval County that can have and it's not only a jail. The sheriff is very much interested in the site that will also house eventually the juvenile shelter and the prison. So the site is basically enormous. Those proposed the proposals came in. They were evaluated and they're ranked 1, 2, 3, at this point. And we have scheduled for next week. The first negotiation with the company that came in first to do literally a contract. And if that doesn't work out with that particular company, then the process to procurement as you drop to the second one, but hopefully within a number of weeks we'll settle and have the terms and a contract with the company that, again, it's not about the design. It's not about how are funding it. It's strictly 2 things that we're asking them to do. Give us 3 sites that for a lot of reasons can work. And to give us some sense of of numbers for capacity, not the building capacity, but how many people? 2030, 40 years from now could be in our jail. Could be in our juvenile shelter. Could be our PRESIDENT. And those are the 2 goals that we have at the end. Then after this, we'll do more if he's to help us with design and funding. And what have you. Thank you so that the point I would make is >> many of you are familiar with the Peach Farm at on the Northside Elaine erode. There's a potential desire to bring that into this process. The juveniles facility as well. So this could be the place for all corrections for Duval County's. So. I appreciate the resolution, but I think at this point we need to get this consulting on board and with the size that we're talking about, you can just imagine that this is not going anywhere near the course. City of Jacksonville. So I'll stop there. Councilmember Salem thank you for calling MR. Weinstein. I'm you were here to help sir. I would just. You I want to play. Push back a bit saying I think there's no earlier time there's no perfect time whether it's now or in 6 years like. The Times when were elected into office. And we have constituents talking to us about certain issues and to that end right, Art Herman's 15 months, you know, 18 months, we only have a but about a year and some change left before the next elections like net now is when we need to make sure and I bring that up because when you see a transition to a different council like it's it's still kind of helpful to say. I at last count, whether spoke with some of their resolutions. What were some of the things that they they have put out in terms of policy to move the city forward and This is something that I think we've heard from our colleagues. I think it's something we've heard from members of the public that they're looking forward to looking for clarity and understanding of of. Where we could see potential projects. I mean. I probably would've assumed that medical examiner's office will be built where it was but it was and I I can only sit in my seat for so long. And tell myself. Guys, don't worry. That won't happen again. I can't make that promise for the next 10, 15, 30 years. What I can say is while I'm sitting in seat and while we as a body have said redlining was a thing that we should have never allowed for in this city in this country. And now we want to kind of kind a corrective action to it. Yes. And you want to say customer Thank Councilmember list of all me I the >> my district, my district is district 8 foreigners at some of that with the Big Pharma currently located. Received a lot of calls from my constituents. And I don't want that. You had to come here. Does Matt does not reflect my district? You know, so I would like to see this map. It's tended. It doesn't represent at least my district. It does represent maybe. Maybe 2 districts. I guess the wise I guess this. This committee have you said 3 locations, correct. Some my question is the thing you say this committee have identified 3 locations. Utility from 3 >> The rfp. >> Asked for deliverables in that live rules will be at the end. >> To find 3 potential locations size wise neighbor. You know how it how we deal with all the variables that go into consideration. But nobody has in any way started to look at to where they maybe the company hasn't been hired yet. So the company, then we'll have period of almost a year to come up with. These are the 3 sites and these are the capacities that we're going to be required for the next 2030, 40 years. Yeah. >> So thank you for this. I know what the medical examiner building. They started off with 20 locations from my understanding they had when the sites 20 own 20 own city sites and somehow some way. You know, Brentwood, Gateway. Was the final site. So is this company if they looking at city-owned sites, correct? >> No, not necessarily. The no because of the size and all concerns that aren't necessarily going to be city owned. They'll be 3 local sites no matter who owns them, that can handle the capacity. That will be required in size and transportation and all that. So it's totally a clean sheet. I can talk about medical examiner only because it was prior administration. So I don't know how that happened. >> My last question ms as the council person, whichever side it shows community where they be involved in the process before sites are choosing. >> The it'll be a very transparent town hall meetings. And what have you, the neighbor effort will be much like very important part of it. But we can have is a resolution from the 14 council district saying don't put it in my district. So somehow there needs to be a balance as to what the options MAY be. But I share chair and COUNCILMAN Sam was position and think it could be anywhere near here only because of the size of the location, but that doesn't take away your concern in a district that you have. I understand that. And, you know, you can't ultimately the council will have the ultimate decision. We'll come up with a recommendation to you. But really, it's it's your ultimate decision where it's going going. >> All right. Got some poetry. Thank you. Well, >> this one I want to say is. I've been through the process of finding a new location for jail before. It's not that easy. And it's not as easy saying it's just going to go out Lane road. Because I gotta feeling the folks out in road might just have something to say about it, too. I had the opportunity to locate a park at Road many, many years ago. That has some noise issues. And there are folks to live out there. But in all likelihood because we own the property out there, the Montgomery Center that might be the prime location. But one thing I do want to say is that there are different components to this jail that night. Linda sell to a different campus style. But some of those components, we don't know. The logistic Lee. They MAY go to different locations around the city. We don't know that. Could happen. We don't know what the recommendations are going to bait. And so. I believe that it is important for this. Team that's coming in to have some kind of. What you might call some guardrails that we want to try to avoid. Because some of the different components that might need to logistically be closer to our courthouse or to downtown or to some of our medical facilities. They might need to be located closer in so we I think need to pass a resolution. Shows places that we want to avoid. And I think that will give. The neighbors comfort because these folks in these areas and I can say this of with as much. Experiences anybody else can maybe not with more. But with with a good bit of experience have been told that will never go there and then it goes there. I'm not talking about the whole jail complex. But if there were components to this entire. Campus that had to be located in perhaps different places there needs to be some type of guideline, some type of mapped. This is list need to avoid that. And then you've got COUNCILMAN Gaffney. He needs to have if his district needs to be represented into this. I don't know of Councilmember Pittman. Some of the others that. Represent urban core that has concerns about these things. Have weighed into it because this a new bill, some new resolution is just come up. So I want to commend you for doing it. That's why I'm here today. I think this is like an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It's sort of like people have come to me over the years. Is that I want to do a rezoning in such-and-such neighborhood and a boy said well before you apply for the rezoning, you might want to go knock on all your neighbors doors within a 3 year, 400 foot radius and make sure they're ok with it. Because the they MAY not want ship that. And then you're going to get yourself into in a big hornets nest in in neighborhood uprising. And you don't want that. You know, you want to try to build consensus. This is a good way to start this process out. It sounds like it's going to be good time. What is the when 2 threw the chair to Mr Weinstein and that does have a good ring to a chair plusa. >> What when through the chair to this for Weinstein will the this this group start working in earnest? >> Well, again, through chair Palou so. You are recognized. I would anticipate that within within 3 weeks to a month will have an agreement with the first company to start work on. Okay. So we've got time for they haven't. They haven't begun. They're going to have to do a lot of research before they even begin. The probably connect with a realtor to to get a sense. So it's it's good. It's going to be a while, ok? That's good. So that gives us some time. And that's all I have to say and to contribute. And I know my colleague Councilmember Pittman like to chime Thank you, COUNCILMAN. We're happy to have jump in and tell me that someone >> Good afternoon. And I agree with everything that you said. I know a few years back in. Sheriff for was a share and there was a lot of research that was done about putting. The jail online. Row. And so it was such a controversial discussion. I think it is that off. Kind of bite. So, you know, everybody deserves didn't see. But you also the community deserves to have the input too. Empower them to be a part of the big process. We know that we need the that I don't remember how. Many acres in at different parts of it, too. And sure that we then that will be more than 5 to 10 years. However, it's set up. We need to build something that it could grow into. So and another, you know, 5 10 years. We're not looking for something but it also an opportunity train these individuals. Why they are in jail because some of them there, you know, several months. And I know over the years we had a training program, a lot of those men and women that got out, they needed opportunities and they were able to get that. But for the most part, I think from what I heard, they're all on the the same page and Jacksonville's have changed since then as well. Jacksonville downtown Jacksonville is a major their forward in our city and that we're trying to go. So I support. You know, the jail that also concern about my district as well. Because, you know, I have part of 7, 8, 9.10 and we want to make sure wherever, not not everybody going to be happy if we make a decision and I know MR. Weinstein, how much land that we have in terms of wet is needed. I don't know if we've even gotten that far yet to talk about what's needed to develop. The new jail as well as for growth. Do you have any idea what that number might be? Was the largest piece of land because it's probably not that that many pieces in Jacksonville on this one going outside close. The Nassau County for Macon County. So I think that. >> so I think that I come from and ailing Weinstein can't really hear you. Thank You can also just sat there you want to that. I think the COUNCILMAN Sailors guess is as good as any is probably going to be close to 500 acres. >> Ok, and you MAY not here at the beginning, but it's not just not going to look just at city owned property that doesn't matter who owns a property at this point where she could be and then we'll deal with ownership if we don't own the property, ok? >> I guess my question is, have we identified? Any property with its city own? >> Not not. We haven't begun to do anything to where these MAY go. Okay. We're going to spend some money with the with outside groups to help us come up with 3 sites that that could potentially hold it. But as I said before, they'll be town hall meetings will be very transparent. This is such a product project. It's kicking. There's no way could be headed. >> And council and I do just want to because because some of the commentary was about other other districts. This is not meant to be a district matter based on the map from the 1934 redlining from from the Federal Housing Authority. So so that's where the map came from. And we already did a resolution the first time about redlining >> Thank you, chair Let me just take everybody back to 1987. >> When we were under a court order for the old Christopher Point jail that I actually was a pharmacist and we want a court order. We had to do something very quickly, Mike, I think might have been around then and we had this piece of property across the street. Small piece of property and we had to go up in order to construct a jail quickly. Which was a terrible mistake. But it got us out of the court order and we had a new jail obviously in 30 years is now needs to be replaced. This facility needs to be a 50 plus year jail. And it needs to be all those services provided on that campus just just to remind everybody presently, we are transporting inmates with any health care problem. Down to uf Health. For all those transportation costs. Although security Costa, someone's got to be guarding that inmate. 24 7, we want to eliminate all that all that added expense can be eliminated. If it's on that campus where there's a healthcare entity that can treat the inmates and if it's a true surgery or something, then they would go to uf Health, all the mental health services be provided there. So there's significance cost savings by putting it all on one campus I agree with MR. Weinstein, it's going to be several 100 acres so I just wanted to make that point. We don't want to duplicate what we did 40 some years ago. But we need to move on this because our jail is in bad shape. We don't want get in the position of of having a core problem. If you come from selling. If I MAY write, I mean, I think most of us, especially because of the good work that was done on the jail committee. >> And based on the needs of this of this city, I think we do know that the current jail does not need a lot of needs. It's got a lot of longstanding issues. And I think we all recognize that is a need for a new jail. That's much better location and provides many more services. What we're here to do and here to make sure is for a community that that for a city that has had quite literally to the point of the 1987 ruling. There's been a lot of history with jails and the city has a lot of history with different, you know, municipal government projects in the city that have that have affected. Redlined communities. So that's it. I mean, I think I think that I I know as a council member and as a citizen, the new jail needs to be built. I believe that I do. I see the work, but I want to make sure we get out of this process is that we before we even bring anyone up into r p before move on. Move on to our next terms. I want to make sure that this council can come together say, hey, we've got a lot of work on this Let's make sure that we do put it in one of the redlined neighborhoods. Mean, that's it, right? Like we I don't think it's that this is not meant to be some some major, you know, fireworks or anything. We've now been here for a while. And if seen, what are? What our citizens think. We I see when I drive through my district to when I drive through. COUNCILMAN Pittman customer Gaffney's. And so if there's any commentary on. How we want to see, maybe the map changed a little bit. There's commentary on how many acres. I mean, what that something going to be on the rp process, right? We kind of know that. So. I believe that there probably will not be a jail built anywhere in here, but this is meant to make it known to City Council. Absolutely. Does not want to jail or an accessory jail or juvenile center. Whatever else built in these areas. And that's that's why I'm doing this. And I and I would love your support. So I guess from a coaching. Well, one other reason that you want to do it. Because a lot of don't think it'll go in there. I I get it. But we do know that for sure. >> This is this is supposed to build trust. Our neighbors. Live in the areas that are used to. Hearing one thing and getting another. If we don't build trust with them, it's just going work this just make the job harder Work. Well, we don't have trust in this community. Member the j and want to trust there was or we lost 3 years of progress, the city because of that Scheme. I just sayin. This is a trust building resolution that you're putting together. This is to come make everybody trust ill, but it's going help. It's so this that. Said ounce of prevention what I'm talking about. And again and we'll go back. This. The matter where you think you go jail, it will never