School Board Special Meeting

1. CALL TO ORDER

2. Special Meeting for Purposes of Convening a Public Hearing in the Matter of

Manatee County School Board v. D. Gray

1. Public Hearing Concerning Exceptions to DOAH Recommended Order in the Matter of

Manatee County School Board v. David Gray, DOAH Case No. 24-1779

3. ADJOURNMENT

Agenda

January 21, 2025

School Board of Manatee County

School Board Special Meeting - 3:30 PM

Walter Miller School Support Center

Board Room

Times Indicated are Approximate

1

they want on in good shape. >> You parents are often told that 2 many couples can school that they be intended to into a demanding months to. It. Does a baby get to be left to cry now and then? Theory? It's entry teeth. This sort of idea that makes parents who respond intuitively his pickup, that baby had lit and hold feel guilty. Com and best minds are a baby. That's crying news to become fits in and >> parents need to think about what's making it what's as we act accordingly, again. >> Newborn babies have all different ways of communicating. One of the things they can't do right after they're born smile. They can't talk. If they can let you know how they're feeling. And one of the ways let you know how they're feeling as if they cry. >> Nancy, staying as being a midwife to 21 news and she knows exactly what baby's needs and often has to cannot misunderstandings about infant health and diet. Many parents think neon a pacifier will help calm that baby. >> That's a myth that you should give a baby under one year old honey, whether it's putting it on the pacifier, we're pretty on your finger. I think that you're doing something good for your baby, but it's actually very toxic. >> And want extend kids bacteria and how many and made that could make a babysitter. Because it's a system is next to benefit the it can be to to as and it's going to face in this under a year old should never given. Honey, >> a newborn baby has a stomach. Nate. They given a cherry. It needs Milk 8 to 12 times. Every. 24 shouldn't also want That's a question. Parents often ask, especially in hot weather. Not kind of bad. They tease on spacing in a solid foods in the past few months. Shouldn't are in close alls. >> even when it's hot, mic isn't what The baby could just notice more often will be given a pass and needs for the stocks, getting solid foods 5 6 It can drink closely with its said me, look and get a hosting when it's hot. Many of us that. >> They when a baby is eating crow, the feet parents still need to be careful about foods like fish peanut snacks, which can trigger allergic reactions. Some parents wonder if, best avoid it altogether. >> That he in the avoided giving their babies anything in the year. That could allergies. These days that's considered non it's actually in person to give babies fish not like some poked in though. No homes, not something at early stage because it reduces risk of attitude think >> By 6 months, most babies achieving which can be painful, the chemicals, a fifa machine baby says anything above that 8.5 degree Celsius. >> When a baby gets gets its teeth, it's not cutting through bone. It's not really cutting through anything so we don't have to imagine that it's in any kind of terrible pain. Now it could be that a baby gets a slight rise in temperature. But if your baby >> Good afternoon. Welcome to JANUARY 20st 2025 school board special meeting on officially call this meeting to order. I'm now going turn this over to MISTER Di it will begin the meeting with our next course action. Thank you, chair. >> Hello board members superintendent. I Erin Jackson's here represent district. Is the. MR. Great PRESIDENT. Least as of yet MR. Gray's PRESIDENT. We're here, the for the hearing regarding the school board meeting County, Florida versus David Gray. This is do a case. Number 2, 4 Dash, 0, 0, 1, 7, 7, 9, It's employment termination case that went to. In Do. Do do a judge issued recommended order? That the is included in the record that each of you received. The district attorney. Filed exceptions to the order. And also provided they recommended order. That contains those exceptions. So this matter was set for hearing notice was provided to the parties. Well, it's the clerk. Did you receive think from MR. Gray in response to the notice. So the clerk has not received any. I think patience respondents to the notice of today's hearing. The action of the school board. You end up being the final decision-maker. That's what your your role is today. And I will I sit you some of the excerpts from trading. Code, go through a few of those and before we start. The so the school board is to be provided the entire record of the proceedings. I believe everybody did receive. In opportunity to review. In the school MAY choose to reject or modify conclusions of law or reject. Findings of fact. This is all set forth for statute. One, 25, 7. Each party's given 15 minutes to present its position. Recommended order to the school board. The superintendent. Makes a representation through. The district attorney. Which is Jackson. After she will make her presentation and then the employee has an opportunity to present. Their presentation of their argument each for his 15 minutes. And then the school board after that make a determination which order you we're going approve. Order where new order. Which order being recommended your district. Superintendent is the one that sticks to provide. Is there any questions? >> fighting for. Respondent is not your. We need to. In front us and we are required to The 15 minutes that take us to >> But I would recommend going ahead and having Jackson in her presentation. And also just to be clear. If you on board final insider. We. The side. We go in a different direction, whether it's a finding and the fact we have justify that, yes, we can just come up with things this one. So Trump. And then for the respondent. Really talk about rescue possible outcomes. So the board. Sides with the superintendent's recommendation. Respond from past. So commissioner. In the so when there's changes to state facts on. If board were to side with tips on. What It would be, what the board decides. Respondents currently on suspension without >> and the recommendation. Was 32 days. That was the do judge's recommendations. 32 days. Without that. So do start But then what will happen to? >> The game for a spot in the status one of on. And that's the >> I would speculate the board could address >> we a mild first >> In >> So if we do decide to go with the superintendent's recommendation, which too. Of petitioners exception to orders as In the documents. There's there's difficult position. Are the exceptions regarding so that's that's what was actually filed in case of But the >> there's a recommended order that goes along with that. That's. There's a nail j Order. Administrative Law judge recommended order. Exception. >> her administrative very knows the recommendation for termination. That. Back in MARCH. We have is one of these documents, Kurt. Recommendation for. What is that the current do I have to we have actually Not not in those listed documents potentially MAY want vary, can give it open and open. >> With 5th and then if we decide to go with different recommendation, do we have to? Given the reasons we just Up or down? Yes or no vote that we have to remind simply make a motion make the need to provide reasons why we didn't accept want to vote for reasons are actually incorporated into community or hit. You don't you don't have to restate That's all ahead with it. >> Have questions we Thank Erin Jackson and Kevin Pendley on behalf of the superintendent. Why song and here on the matter of school board of Manatee County versus David Gray and the recommended order and the exceptions to the recommended order that are before you. I think it MAY be helpful just because I I know that there's a lot of administrative steps to this process. I could just give you a little background of how we got here in the first place. So there was a recommendation by former Superintendent Cynthia Saunders to terminate MR. Gray for the misconduct. And I'll get into the details of the misconduct in a moment. But first, I just like to talk procedurally about how we're here. That recommendation was made to the school board at the time. MR. Gray had the right to appeal that decision and to do so. He needed to just file a notice requesting a hearing. He did, in fact, file that notice requesting the hearing and when he filed that the recommendation for termination then just transferred to a recommendation for suspension or administrative leave without pay pending the hearing. In the meantime, before the hearing was scheduled before the administrative law judge for the for Dough out the division administrative hearings, the union got involved and the union filed a grievance and said rather than going through the administrative law, judge law, we prefer to go through arbitrator through a grievance. Every employee who is a member of a bargaining unit, a union has the right to choose a path. You can't both, but you can choose one path. So he was on path one and then the union got involved and they chose path too. On the eve of the arbitration, the Union called me and said they wanted to postpone the arbitration because they weren't sure they were going to pursue it on his behalf any longer. And that took some time for them to make their decision. They ultimately decided not to represent him to drop the grievance. And then MR. Gray said he wanted to reinstate the choice for path. One. So there MAY be questions about why this took so long because it's very unusual for it to have taken this long. But that's why and so then we ended up back on path one before administrative law. Judge under the Florida statutes, the school board has the ultimate final decision with regard to disciplinary action of employees. But employees have the right to pursue a hearing when there substantial interests are at issue. And of course, his was his employment was issue. The hearing is before administrative law judge with doa. That administrative law judge making a recommendation to you. >> After hearing the evidence, but it's it's a recommendation. You all have the authority to make the final decision the statute sets out how what how the process works and what types of decisions can make. And ultimately in this case we're asking, is that we we agreed with almost everything that the administrative law judge found in terms of the facts of this case. But where we disagree is with the recommendation for discipline and under the statutes. Again, you have the final decision here and you have the right to disagree on the recommendation with the administrative Law. Judge. And instead impose the level of discipline that you believe is appropriate. And in this particular case, we're here on a recommendation for termination for the misconduct of MR. Gray. MR. Gray was working as a school food service worker when he violated section 40 to 13, which is a school board policy on student supervision and welfare. And he did this when he engaged in a 32 second frontal hug with a very young elementary school student. This interaction was captured on video. And you all have been provided with the record and have been provided with a copy of the video. It was also present at the hearing to the administrative law. Judge. The video clearly shows that MISTER Gray approached the student who then stands up from the lunch table and then he proceeds to hug her from the front, holding her for this extended period of time over 30 seconds. The conduct is in clear violation of the policy. And it's also in violation of prior directives that have been given MR. Gray. In fact, the Administrative Law judge found that MR. Gray had been disciplined for this before it been told not to touch students and the administrative law judge also found that during the regular meetings, supervisors told all of the employees that if a student at a elementary school approaches, you hug from the side, do not do a frontal hug, MR. Gray knew this. He did it regardless and he did it for over 30 seconds. He was unable to provide any credible explanation at the hearing for why he did this. Despite the administrative law judge recommending a suspension rather than the termination. Again, we don't agree with this recommendation and the law grants you the discretion to adjust that recommendation. The decision to recommend suspension by the lj was influenced by his belief that the absence of contact outside the school. Mitigated the severity of the violation. However, there's nothing in policy that says that it's ok to have this type of contact with a student in school. If you don't do so outside of the school setting. We assert that the recommendations in the order clearly support the determination as opposed to a suspension because this was a clear violation of policy. It was a clear violation of directives that have been given to him multiple times and a clear violation of the directive that was specifically given to him in prior discipline. By his own admissions during the hearing he admitted that he did have regular personal interactions with this student stating that he cared about her so much and he wanted to hold further acknowledged working with the student on anger issues and supervising her after school and the video evidence speaks for itself in terms of what happened that day. And in the lunchroom. While the employee claims to have engaged in a side hug the video clearly unequivocally shows that it was not a side hug. And again, he has no credible explanation for why he engaged in this behavior. So for all these reasons, we respectfully submit that the recommendation for suspension is not appropriate in this case. The conduct in this case, along with the prior warnings and the video evidence warrants termination. And we urge you to accept the petitioners exceptions, reject the administrative law judge's recommendation for suspension. Instead issue a final order. Terminating the employee's employment. We did file with you all last week. A proposed final order being proposed. Final order setting forth the agreement with the superintendent's recommendation for termination and terminating MR. Gray's employment effective today. Thank you. And if you all have any questions, I'm happy to answer I guess was work on this case. >> So is that a binary Except the minister law judges? Order or accept the superintendent's order or can we do as a matter of long? Just curious about that. I would want to do something different. I'm just curious, isn't binary one of the other or nothing or can we do something different? The law provides that you have the final decision. >> So it's not binary. It's not just this or that if you have a legitimate basis for some decision in between. That is an option. But you have to state exactly the reasoning for and why you would accept the the administrative law judges decision. What would be? >> Acceptable matters of like if I wanted to give a reason why one of the different what? That would be just my opinion, we would have to be a matter. Fact that I found that was not not correct or a matter of >> Right. So for the findings of fact, you would have find that there was not competent competent, substantial evidence in the record to support that finding of fact. And with regard to the conclusion of law, you have to find that your reasoning was far more reasonable and that there was an error with regard to the conclusion of law that was reached. Okay. Thank you >> the body someone, grandkids, but I do thank you. >> Record 100 Fulton. So was reading through his deposition. And he stated in response to your question for me and stated that. Face-to-face talks were inappropriate. He even made that statement as well. I watched the video. Made me uncomfortable. We have record that he's been discipline previously for a similar with summer things I understand correctly. That's correct. Yes. And this is that was not his first. What a reprimand as well. Is that right? There's a pattern of I understand that as well. >> That's correct. He had issued directives before coaching counseling before and then was issued a written directive with regard to not touching students >> so and looking. That, right here in front of And looking at the policy 42, 1, 3, and it does And this is letter g support. Staff members shall not inappropriately associate with students at any time in a manner which MAY give in a Memphis sizing is mine MAY give the appearance of impropriety. This is including but not limited to do so. It's not just the things that are listed there, including. As well as other things and and definitely made me feel that it was inappropriate. Having been in the classroom. Yes, you but not that long. And it is usually just a lean and, you kinda on the side and, you know, I'm sorry you're having a rough day kind of a thing. It's that. I also took is very inappropriate. So, yeah, not comfortable with renewing his employment. >> On the All Jay's report. Number. 28. Is saying that they recommend. Suspension without pay for 32 work days. And then it goes on to tell. So board members to make. The final decision basically. Okay, we're not going into law terms. So I have a couple of questions. Lover of direction or anything. >> And his file prior to this incident. Of any kind of disciplinary. Issues. >> If you look sea, a footnote footnote to on Page 4 of the recommended order, the administrative law judge actually walks through. >> The. >> The discipline and the disciplinary consequences that were issued to him 2019, 2022 1021, he was warnings. >> And then >> 2019, he was also issued a specific letter of direction in which he was cautioned against inappropriately associating with students. I hugging student and putting student's hair. And then the alj actually found that this was evidence that respondent received actual notice of the school board's policy 40 to 13 on student supervision. And welcome here. I rephrase my question. Is there anything in his personnel file prior to 2019 state heat. That's all right. As my it's me. >> According do all of the records he became an employee in 2009. And according to the deposition at proceeding that you are at. Things started to deteriorate with his employment. At the school cafeteria workers and supervisors. And even. And that. That position, he is stating how. Came to the downtown office to talk to people about some of the problems that we're going on. So there's nothing that I could see in this whole report. About anything with Behavior. On chill. 28 19. And then I look at exhibit. Well, there's a lot of exhibits, Exhibit c. We right back up. Exhibit a is a barber Harvey Elementary. Parent and student. A handbook. Parent and student handbook. And it's a message from the principal. And there's one that highlighted this as we give away while elevating academic success. I'm going to get to my point. And then exhibits c. I'm sorry. Exhibit g shows evaluation. MISTER Gray and Food Service by. >> His supervisor. And that's where I got the date 4, 1, 0, 9 is when MR. Gray became employed. On his it meet expectations. Developing meets expectations. There are. I didn't see any the comments. Eyes too. Casey is great with kids. Another name for MISTER. Great. Quality is always great news to work. More on designee responsibilities. So I see that in his file Nest dated 3 for 22. And I I saw the video. I saw the video shortly after this incident occur. Disturbed me as well. I don't know if I saw. The student hiding MISTER Gray, MR. Gray hugging a student. I started looking at it more intent. And those only one angle. And a deposition. Mister Gray saying it was a side hog, but clearly this student is double armed. Around MR. Gray's. Shoulders so could have been just a side hog. It did last quite long. But you can't really see that angle. The left side, I guess it would be from what I could say. One. There's no complaint prior to he's had. Then went to district 10 years by this time, nearly 10 years by this time, his review is. Meet expectations. Great with kids. >> And >> I don't know if there's problem. Work in different areas in my life. And there's always that dynamic, no matter what group there's clicks with that. Food service bus drivers, teachers. Same thing with. Any other profession. There's the clicks. There's the administrative like there's people in business cafeteria click. There's always something as mechanics everything. So there's always going to be a little bit of Panama City. Within the ranks. And to your point, MISS And about. Item g under the students, supervisory and welfare. And then when I looked at thing that the Harvey, we give away hugs. Well, elevating academic success. I don't know if this is something that's been shared. District White. Date on this particular document. 2020, 2020, 2021. Parent student Handbook. Sounds like there's been a culture in my opinion. That if a student needs assistance. That try to offer comfort. To that and touring schools and I'm sure others appear have witness. I have and my schools where student just comes out of the blue and behind talking. Kindergartners through. Middle school. I've seen students hog. But it wasn't that 30 seconds or more. Embrace. To me, a hog is a hot is where? I define make that definition brace for a hot. I don't know if there was MR. Dye. Was there any other angle? Of that video provided to this. Basically defendant could say, hey, it was just a side, according to the transcript. It was just the hot But clearly it was Bonnie hunt. But I didn't know there was another angle. >> No other video, the record. It. Sure you saw a stray judge. Findings of fact in the in the there's no disagreement on the facts. The judge also reviewed the video it's in judge's order. So there's no there's no disputing the facts right? What that video shows. The respondent. It was a going judge explicitly after viewing the video it was not right? >> that's all I have for now. And here we're going to board members have to say ready but like to the 2 this price point. Having just left school 2 years. Time on. But what we can see clearly on that video known for one angle to problematic. You know what think the respondent? Interesting. Explanations for for the whole thing. But I did find convincing. Their former Absolutely. He went up anything. >> repeat what's been said. At church having to make a motion that we. Make sure that lineup right make a motion to approve the superintendent's recommendation for termination. >> Effect second, problem. What are you good >> Yes, I at 4 all of the reasons set forth in the petitioners exceptions. Outside counsel. >> we saw the start from the top MR. CHAIRMAN, motion to except the superintendent's recommendation of termination ace parks. Laid out by to hear. So, of course, and the exception And now a second. Another get the language down Re able to get that language. >> While you're working on that. We do have a comment for MISTER Cain. >> So my comment is MR. Gray, if you are watching this other employees in the it's been about an hour and half or so reviewing this hole. Acted in its regret fully come to a point like this where we have to determine somebody is employment, we value people that. For the school system. Gentleman has been working for us apparently for over a decade. And so, however, when I look at what you might call the preponderance of the evidence because it's criminal case, it's a civil case. And the way the fort in my judgment, the record. Comes down to the preponderance of the evidence, accordance with the superintendent's recommendation and still be voting except the superintendent's recommendation for termination, regretfully. But i believe that's right. Decision to make in this Thank >> to have was the. Were spawned notified of 2 days year. Was you notify us. >> We received an email and also regular mail notice and it was also published. >> So you have to. Active communications and one passes through. Yes, >> So there wasn't a registered letter. That went out or anything like that. I don't know if that's a just asking it is not a requirement. Fact electronic is satisfied we did both. And e-mail. Often just general, I will do a certified and a regular. I don't want to tell for certain that I did that. I can no