2026 Special Meeting - City Council / Lincoln Redevelopment Successor Agency / Lincoln Public Financing Authority

LOGITECH: BLAIR, WOULD YOU READ THE, FULL ROLL, PLEASE? LOGITECH: COUNCILMEMBER ANDREA IS ABSENT. LOGITECH: COUNCILMEMBER BROWN? HERE. LOGITECH: COUNCILMEMBER EKLUND IS… OR MAYOR PRO TEM EKLUND IS… LOGITECH: COMING. COMING. ON OUR WAY. ON THE WAY. LOGITECH: COUNCILMEMBER REEDY? HERE. LOGITECH: AND MAYOR PEARL. HERE. LOGITECH: VERY, VERY GOOD. FOR A LARGE REASONS. WOULD YOU LEAD US IN THE PLEDGE, PLEASE? LOGITECH: PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG. SPEAKER 1 (LOGITECH): OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. LOGITECH: THAT'S TRUE. SPEAKER 1 (LOGITECH): A PUBLIC COMMENT ON ANY ITEM THAT'S NOT ON THE AGENDA. ANYONE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK WITH. LOGITECH: WE'LL HAVE 3 MINUTES ON THE SUBJECT MATTER AS WELL. YAY! SPEAKER 1 (LOGITECH): OKAY, CONTINUING ON. DO WE HAVE ANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO WOULD LIKE TO INVESTIGATE? LOGITECH: ON A MATTER THAT FOR MATTERS THAT ARE NOT ON THE AGENDA TODAY. LOGITECH: HEARING NONE… GO ON TO THE… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): BE HONEST. LOGITECH: ITEM NUMBER 5, DISCUSSION ITEM. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): MR. CITY MANAGER. SPEAKER 1 (LOGITECH): THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MAYOR. SPEAKER 1 (LOGITECH): SO, THIS IS THE FIRST, AND YOU MAY… COUNCIL MAY DECIDE YOU NEED TO HAVE A FEW MORE OF THESE BEFORE YOU. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): ARRIVE AT SOME SORT OF PATH FORWARD, BUT SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THE COUNCIL ON, ON, I BELIEVE IT'S UNDER STRATEGIC PLAN, TALKED ABOUT OPEN SPACE A LITTLE BIT, AND WHETHER THE POLICY AS WE SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): HABIT, MAKE SENSE FOR THE CITY OF LINCOLN? HOW'S IT APPLIED? SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): WHAT ARE THE INTERSECTIONALITIES BETWEEN OUR OPEN SPACE POLICY AND THE PLACER COUNTY CONSERVATION PROGRAM? HOW DOES IT WORK PRACTICALLY IN PROJECT DESIGN? AND THEN, AS A RESULT OF SOME PROJECTS THAT HAVE COME FORWARD IN THE LAST YEAR AND CHANGE, THERE'S BEEN SORT OF THIS SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): INFORMAL SET OF DISCUSSIONS THAT I'VE BEEN PART OF, ABOUT WHAT OUR POLICY REALLY MEANS, WHERE IT HAS BEEN APPLIED. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND IS THERE A WAY TO MAKE IT BETTER, OR AT LEAST MORE CLEAR? SO WE HAVE A BUNCH OF MEMBERS FROM THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT HERE TODAY THAT, AT ANY POINT THEY'D LIKE, PLEASE INTERRUPT AND SHARE YOUR EXPERIENCE OF TRYING TO APPLY THIS STANDARD SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, TO YOUR PROJECTS, BUT… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): MAYBE JUST, TO KIND OF GET THE CONVERSATION STARTED, I'LL JUST SUMMARIZE A LITTLE BIT OF A FEW OF THE THINGS IN THE REPORT. SO, IN MARCH OF 2008, LINCOLN ADOPTS ITS 2050 GENERAL PLAN DOCUMENT, AND IT WAS THIS REALLY AMBITIOUS, AT THAT TIME, SUPER AMBITIOUS. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): GENERAL PLAN THAT HAD SIGNIFICANT GROWTH PLANNED IN ALMOST ALL AREAS OF THE CITY. AND THERE'S A LOT TO THAT DOCUMENT. ON YOUR STAFF REPORT, I ATTACHED THE OPEN SPACE ELEMENT. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THE OPEN SPACE ELEMENT IS A REQUIRED… A LEGALLY REQUIRED SECTION OF THE GENERAL PLAN… OF CALIFORNIA GENERAL PLAN. THERE'S 7 REQUIRED SECTIONS, I THINK. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND, WHAT I'VE LEARNED OVER THE YEARS IS THAT IT MEANS SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU'RE LOCATED AND WHAT COMMUNITY YOU'RE WORKING IN. YOU KNOW. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): OPEN SPACE AS JUST A BROAD TERM, MEANS SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT IN LOS ANGELES THAN IT DOES IN WASHINGTON COUNTY, THAN IT DOES IN TAHOE, ETC, ETC. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): SO, SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): BROADLY, THOUGH, THE REQUIREMENT IS THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE THIS SECTION, AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING. PRESERVATION OF NATURAL RESOURCES. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): MANAGE PRODUCTION OF RESOURCES, AND THAT MEANS, LIKE, AGRICULTURAL… OR SOMETHING SIMILAR. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): OUTDOOR RECREATION, PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY. THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY COMPONENT IS SORT OF A, SORT OF, KIND OF, SAFETY BY LAND USE. SO, YOU KNOW, FLOOD MITIGATION AND OTHER WEATHER-RELATED SAFETY ISSUES. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): OUR GENERAL PLAN'S ACTUALLY PRETTY GOOD IN THE SENSE THAT THE IMPLEMENTATION MEASURES AND GOALS, MANY OF THEM WE'VE ALREADY COMPLETED, AND THEN THERE'S SOME THAT ARE ONGOING, AND THE 40… IT'S INTERESTING, ANYBODY THAT'S WORKED HERE FOR A WHILE, ME. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): OUR STAFF TALK ABOUT 40% OPEN SPACE, 40% OPEN SPACE. WE HAVE 40% OPEN SPACE, ISN'T THAT GREAT? AND SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): ONCE YOU REALLY GET INTO THE DETAIL OF IT, THAT'S NOT EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): IT SAYS THAT, IN FACT, THE LANGUAGE IS A LOT MORE, SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): LOOSE THAN I EVER REALLY REALIZED, THAT… IN FACT, I'M GONNA READ IT VERBATIM HERE. THE CITY SHALL ESTABLISH A MITIGATION FEE FOR HABITAT PRESERVATION. WITHIN THE VILLAGE AREAS, THE INCLUSION OF 40% OF OPEN SPACE COULD… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): PROVIDE ADEQUATE MITIGATION FOR THAT HABITAT. SO REALLY, IF YOU… IT'S BEEN CHANGED OVER THE YEARS IN THE LORE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING WE DO FROM A DESIGN PERSPECTIVE, BUT THE WAY IT WAS WRITTEN IN THE PLAN WAS REALLY TO MITIGATE AGAINST SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, DESTRUCTION OR REPLACEMENT OF, OF, HABITAT. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND WHAT'S HAPPENED OVER TIME, AND COUNCILMEMBER REED AND I HAVE KIND OF TRACKED BACK ON THIS THROUGH SOME OF THE MORE HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS, IS THAT YOU HAVE SUN CITY COME IN. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THEY START THEIR PROJECT. THE TOPOGRAPHY OF THAT PROJECT IS HILLY, AND THEY WANT GOLF COURSES, OF COURSE. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND SO IT JUST MAKES LOTS OF NATURAL SENSE TO HAVE A LOT OF OPEN SPACE IN THAT AREA, BECAUSE SOME OF IT'S NOT REALLY BUILDABLE, OTHERS HAVE MORE RADIATION, THEY WANTED TRAIL SYSTEMS, ETC. SO THEY END UP HAVING A PRETTY ROBUST SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): I THINK REALLY NICE OPEN SPACE AREA. OTHER AREAS OF LINCOLN THAT WOULD FALL INTO THIS SORT OF RANGE, IN MY OPINION, COULD ALSO BE SOME OF THE AREAS OF 12 BRIDGES THAT HAVE SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): IT'S NOT FULLY AMENITIZED, BUT THEY HAVE LARGE AREAS OF OPEN SPACE THAT SORT OF BISECT SUBDIVISIONS AND CREATE A DIFFERENT FEEL. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND BEYOND THAT, YOU DON'T HAVE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF OPEN SPACE THAT EXIST IN ANY ONE PROJECT. YOU HAVE SOME, BUT NOT WHAT WE WOULD VIEW AS USABLE OPEN SPACE. AND SO IN HAVING CONVERSATIONS. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): WE'VE SPOKEN WITH THE BIA ABOUT THIS A COUPLE OF TIMES. PHIL RODRIGUEZ FROM LEWIS, HAS… WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH REGARD TO VILLAGE 7 AND HOW OPEN SPACE CAN BE APPLIED. AND THEN WE HAD, SOME DISCUSSIONS WITH THE PLACER COUNTY CONSERVATION PROGRAM. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): TO SORT OF UNDERSTAND HOW DO THESE THINGS ALL MEET. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): BECAUSE THE REALITY, AS NITA AND I WERE DISCUSSING EARLIER, IS SOMEBODY COULD COME PROPOSE A PROJECT HERE IN LINCOLN AND SAY, I'M NOT… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): DON'T HAVE ANY OPEN SPACE. I'M GONNA PAY THE FEES. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): OH. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND THEY COULD. AND, THEN YOU DON'T END UP SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, REALLY WITH THE GOAL OF WHAT I THINK WE WANT, OR EXPECT COUNCIL WANTS OPEN SPACE TO BE. SO, AS I WAS THINKING THROUGH IT, AND I DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS TODAY, I'M HOPING THAT THIS IS A GOOD BRAINSTORMING SESSION THAT WE CAN GO BACK AND TRY TO SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): CRAFT SOMETHING THAT MAKES SENSE, BUT I HAVE A COUPLE OF AREAS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND I'M JUST GONNA LIST OFF THESE QUESTIONS FOR YOU TO THINK ABOUT. DOES THE 40% AS A METRIC REQUIREMENT SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): MAKES SENSE AS CURRENTLY REQUIRED. IF, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S NOT REALLY ANY OBJECTIVE OR CLOSE TO OBJECTIVE STANDARDS FOR HOW THAT OPEN SPACE IS SET UP. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): DOES IT MAKE SENSE? SHOULD THE DEFINITION OF WHAT'S CONSIDERED AS OPEN SPACE BE MORE GRANULAR? SO WE LIKE… STAFF, IN GENERAL, LIKES THE IDEA OF OPEN SPACES THAT, SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, ARE ADJACENT TO NATURAL ELEMENTS, LIKE CREEKS, SYSTEMS, AND ROLLING HILLS, WHICH LIKES TO BUILD ON. YOU KNOW, MOST FOLKS DON'T WANT TO GO FOR A WALK OUT IN A GRASS FIELD THAT LEADS TO NOWHERE. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): GENERALLY, LIKE, A LITTLE MORE CONNECTIVITY. SHOULD THERE BE TIERS OF ACCEPTABLE OPEN SPACE? FOR EXAMPLE, SHOULD THE OPEN SPACE THAT PROVIDES REAL ECOLOGICAL AND RECREATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES BE ACCEPTED, MEETING THE STANDARD VERSUS OPEN SPACE TYPES THAT EITHER MEET ONE OR THE OTHER OF THOSE CRITERIA? SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND THEN, MOST IMPORTANTLY, LIVE IN THE WORLD OF INCENTIVES, HOW CAN THE CITY INCENTIVIZE OPEN SPACE DEVELOPMENT THAT MEETS A MORE ACTIVE USE CRITERIA WHILE STILL PROTECTING NATURAL AND SENSITIVE HABITAT? SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THE PCCP ELEMENT TO THIS IS IMPORTANT, BECAUSE… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): KEEP IN MIND THAT, IN CITY LIMITS, I SUPPOSE, ALTHOUGH NOT REALLY, BUT CERTAINLY OUTSIDE OF CITY LIMITS. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THERE'S A WHOLE LONG LIST OF ACREAGE THAT THAT ORGANIZATION AT SOME POINT IS GOING TO NEED TO PURCHASE OR PRESERVE EASEMENTS ON. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND SO, THE OTHER PART TO THIS IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY, MAYBE WITH SOME POLICY LANGUAGE, THAT… WHERE WE CAN PUSH DEVELOPERS TOWARDS DEDICATION OF OPEN SPACE INTO AREAS THAT ARE GOING TO CONNECT TO PCCP, SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): FUTURE PROJECTS. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): I THINK THAT'D BE REALLY GOOD. THEY'RE DOING THIS RIGHT NOW ON A COUPLE OF SMALLER PROJECTS IN ROSEVILLE, WHERE THE PCCP IS COMING IN, AND THEY'RE BECOMING THE EASEMENT HOLDER, ESSENTIALLY, OF SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THESE AREAS, THEREBY KIND OF MAKING SURE THAT NOW, AND ESSENTIALLY FOREVER, IT WILL BE A PROTECTED AREA THAT PEOPLE CAN… THAT'S AN ACTUAL AMENITY, FOR THE COMMUNITY. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): SO, I WANT TO JUST LET THE CONVERSATION KIND OF HAPPEN ORGANICALLY. BLAIR, CAN YOU PULL UP THAT MAP FOR EVERYBODY TO SEE? SO, THIS IS NOT… IT'S PRETTY UPDATED, THERE'S… WE NEED TO ADD A FEW THINGS. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): BUT, ON OUR WEBSITE, YOU CAN GO THERE, AND THERE'S THIS MAP, WHICH SHOWS AREAS OF SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): OPEN SPACE THAT, THAT EXISTS CURRENTLY WITHIN THE CITY. THE OTHER COMPONENT HERE THAT I'LL JUST ALSO ADD IS OPEN SPACE, JUST FOR THE SAKE OF OPEN SPACE, IS ACTUALLY A SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY, OR COULD BECOME A FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY TO THE HOMEOWNER SLASH TAXPAYER. SO, WHAT WE'VE LEARNED ABOUT OPEN SPACE IS IT'S COOL, BUT IT'S ALSO REAL EXPENSIVE. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): IT'S EXPENSIVE TO MAINTAIN, IT'S EXPENSIVE… GOAT… THE GOAT SITUATION HAS GOTTEN… THE GOAT UNION HAS GOTTEN TO US. GOAT? YEP. AND ORGANIZED GOAT LABORERS THAT ARE IN THE LEGISLATURE TALKING. AND… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): MOST OF THE… NOT ALL OF THEM, BUT MOST OF THESE AREAS HAVE CFDS BUILT IN THAT THE HOMEOWNER IS PAYING SOME AMOUNT OF MONEY TO GO TOWARD. AND, SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): WHICH I THINK IS PROBABLY MOST PEOPLE WOULD BE FLYING WITH, PROVIDED THAT THEY SEE THE… THE OTHER PART TO IT THAT I'LL ALSO POINT OUT, JUST GEOGRAPHICALLY. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): CHEERS. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): WHERE YOU APPLY THE OPEN SPACE IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS HOW MUCH YOU HAVE OF IT, BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK IS REALLY COOL ABOUT LINCOLN IS WHEN YOU'RE DRIVING UP NORTHBOUND ON HIGHWAY 65, AND YOU'RE PASSING THROUGH ROCKLAND, AND YOU GET TO ABOUT SUNSET. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THERE'S THIS SHIFT THAT OCCURS BETWEEN ABOUT THAT ROADWAY AND LINCOLN BOULEVARD, WHERE ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE WORLD BECOMES A LOT MORE RURAL FEELING. WELL, THAT'S BECAUSE YOU HAVE SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): WIDE AREAS OF UNDEVELOPED PROPERTY BETWEEN THERE AND SO IT'S… PREVIOUSLY, I FELT VERY STRONGLY THAT THAT'S AN IDENTITY THAT WE WANT TO TRY TO MAINTAIN, IF POSSIBLE. AND WE HAVE, AS YOU KNOW, A MASSIVE LITTLE MINI UNINCORPORATED CITY BUILDING SOUTHWEST OF US. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND, YOU KNOW, ROCKLAND'S ESSENTIALLY DONE WITH THEIR DEVELOPMENT. WE HAVE BICKFORD ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COMMUNITY, AND SO SETTING IT UP IN SUCH A WAY THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT LINCOLN'S DESIGN CHARACTERISTIC OF FEELING A LITTLE BIT MORE SPREAD OUT OR RURAL IS, IS, SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): MAINTAINED MOVING FORWARD, ESPECIALLY IN THE LOWER VILLAGE 5 SECTIONS THERE. SO, I COULD GO ON AND ON ABOUT OPEN SPACE. I'VE GOT ALL KINDS OF IDEAS, BUT WHAT I THINK I'M MORE INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU ALL THINK, AND I KNOW JOHN, OR EXCUSE ME, COUNCILMEMBER REEDY HAS, SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): SOME… SOME THOUGHTS, TOO, ON THIS. WE TALKED ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT BEFORE. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): WELL, I'LL OPEN IT UP. I THINK THE DECISION… I THINK BRINGING IT FORWARD NOW IS. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): IS THE RIGHT TIME, WITHOUT A DOUBT. I ALSO THINK THAT THIS IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL DECISIONS THAT SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE MAKING OVER THE NEXT 12 MONTHS. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): WE'RE SETTING THE TOTAL NOT JUST FOR 3 YEARS OF 5 YEARS. SPEAKER 4 (LOGITECH): WE'RE LOOKING AT A 50-YEAR TIME FRAME OVER HERE. AND I THINK WE'VE GOT TO GET THIS RIGHT. I KNOW WE ALL WANT TO GET IT RIGHT. WE WANT TO BE… SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): BE FAIR TO OUR DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY AS THEY COME IN. AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE PEOPLE, NOT ONLY WHO ARE HERE, BUT ARE COMING TO LINCOLN, BECAUSE THEY JUST SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): REALLY… THEY… THEY LOOK AT WHAT THEY SEE HERE, AND THEY SAY, WOW, THIS IS SPECIAL, THIS IS DIFFERENT. I'M WILLING TO PUT MY ROOTS DOWN OVER HERE AND BRING MY FAMILY UP HERE. AND FROM THAT, EVERYTHING… EVERYTHING FLOWS. SPEAKER 4 (LOGITECH): OTHER THINGS. SPEAKER 4 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): I SHARE THE, THE CONCERN THAT YOU… THE CONCERNS THAT YOU BRING UP. SPEAKER 4 (LOGITECH): ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO ACCOMPLISH THIS? SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): WITHIN THE OVERALL… TO BE IN THOSE… WITHIN THOSE OVERALL DEADLINES. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): HOW CAN WE CRAFT SOMETHING. SPEAKER 4 (LOGITECH): THAT'S GOING TO BE. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): THE PRACTICAL. SPEAKER 4 (LOGITECH): MAGICAL'S HAPPENING. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): AND… SPEAKER 4 (LOGITECH): AND, SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): AND ACHIEVABLE, YOU KNOW, AT THE SAME TIME, TO MAKE IT ALL PLAY. BUT THIS IS A LONG… THIS IS A LONG-TERM PLAY FOR US, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT IT. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): IT WOULD BE, PLANNERS, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO JUMP IN HERE, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAN BE VERY DIFFICULT WHEN YOU'RE IN EARLY STAGES OF A MASTER PLAN COMMUNITY PROJECT SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND YOU'RE TRYING… USUALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS YOU GET SOMETHING THAT'S NOT 100% FORMED, BUT THEY PUT SOME TIME INTO IT. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND THEY'VE ALREADY KIND OF LAID OUT WHAT THEY WANT, THEY BEING THE DEVELOPERS. AND SO, IT SOMETIMES CAN BE VERY DIFFICULT, IF IT'S THAT FAR ALONG, TO PUSH A DEVELOPER TO SAY, HEY, WHY DON'T YOU REORIENT YOUR PROJECT SO OPEN SPACE DOES THIS OR DOES THAT, RIGHT? BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY KIND OF COMMITTED TO IT, THEY'VE DONE THEIR LOT CALCULATIONS, THEY KNOW SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): GENERALLY WHAT THEY'RE GONNA DO. AND WHEN WE DON'T HAVE SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): PRESCRIBED… I WON'T SAY OBJECTIVE, BECAUSE ALL THESE THINGS WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT SUBJECTIVE, BUT SOME SORT OF STANDARDS THAT ARE BROAD IN NATURE, WHERE THAT FRIEND, FOR EXAMPLE, CAN POINT BACK TO, HEY, YOU KNOW, THE CITY COUNCIL ACTUALLY ADOPTED THIS SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AMENDMENT TO THE GENERAL PLAN ARE THIS POLICY DOCUMENT THAT SAYS WHAT WE REALLY ARE LOOKING FOR IS X, Y, AND C. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): WHAT I HEAR FROM MOST DEVELOPERS, IT'S LIKE, GOOD, THAT'S WHAT I WANT. I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE EXPECTING SO THAT WE CAN DESIGN AROUND THAT, IF POSSIBLE, VERSUS KIND OF EDITING IT BEFORE IT'S, YOU KNOW, AT THE 10-YARD LINE. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): I DO HAVE A HAND RAISED ON… SO… SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): WELL, I THINK WE SHOULD GO THROUGH OUR COUNCIL, MY COLLEAGUES FIRST, AND THEN WE REACH OUT TO… OKAY. REACH OUT TO SO. SPEAKER 4 (LOGITECH): WELL, I HAVE A LOT OF THOUGHTS, TOO. WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR OVER A YEAR. ACTUALLY, I THINK IT'S BEEN SINCE EVEN WE WERE, SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): PLANNING COMMISSION, AND COUNCILMEMBER REEDY AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): WHAT WE COULD DO MOVING FORWARD, AND… SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I DON'T FEEL THAT I HAVE A GOOD UNDERSTANDING IS, SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): WHAT… WHERE ARE WE IN UNDEVELOPED AREAS AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU SAID, WE'RE TOO FAR IN TO START MOVING THINGS AROUND? SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): IS THERE A WAY TO… FOR US TO VISUALLY BETTER UNDERSTAND WHAT'S ALREADY, LIKE, IN THE 11TH HOUR VERSUS WHAT… WHERE CAN WE, LIKE, ACTUALLY COME FOR, SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): EDITING. SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): ROOM. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THAT, ALRIGHT, CORRECT ME, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): SO, IN MY OPINION. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): WHILE THERE ARE PROJECTS MOVING IN VILLAGE 5, THIS IS ALL STILL VERY MUCH IN PLAY. STILL EARLY ENOUGH WHERE YOU CAN… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND THIS IS PROBABLY THE MOST VALUABLE AREA IN TERMS OF JUST KIND OF FUTURE GROWTH TO REALLY MAKE SOME POLICY ADJUSTMENTS, BUT VILLAGE 1 IS NOT FULLY VAGUED, BUT IT'S GETTING PRETTY BIG AT THIS POINT. THERE'S ONLY, WHAT. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): I DON'T KNOW, A HANDFUL MORE LARGE PARCELS LEFT. I MEAN, MAJORITY OF THE OPEN SPACE, THAT'S, YOU KNOW… SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): LEFT FOR GRABS HAS ALREADY BEEN ENTITLED, SO THOSE ARE PROBABLY, KIND OF, WELL THOUGHT OUT AT THIS POINT IN TIME. YEP. SO WE DON'T EVEN REALLY NEED TO, LIKE, GO THERE. NO, NO, I MEAN… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, ALL THOSE PROJECTS COULD FALL APART, AND SOMEONE ELSE COULD COME IN AND TRY TO REAPPLY STANDARD, BUT IT MAKES… I THINK WHAT WE'LL GET TO AS WE WORK THROUGH THE CONVERSATION IS IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO APPLY TO STANDARD JUST IN A VACUUM. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN… SO HERE'S A GOOD EXAMPLE I'M GOING TO PICK ON FILM. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): PHIL'S VILLAGE CENTER PROJECT WAS PUT TOGETHER QUITE A WHILE AGO. A FEW SMALL AMENDMENTS ARE MADE OVER TIME. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THERE'S ANOTHER PORTION OF THE PROJECT THAT WE'RE HOPING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH NORTH OF THAT. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): WHEN WE STARTED HAVING MORE ROBUST OPEN SPACE DISCUSSIONS, PHIL WAS ABLE TO TAKE SOME OF THAT FEEDBACK, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT REQUIREMENTS, IT'S JUST SORT OF OUR OPINION, AND GO, OKAY, WELL. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): WE COULD RETHINK ABOUT HOW WE HAD ORIGINALLY LAID THIS OUT IN ORDER TO MEET SOME OF THOSE GUIDELINES, WHICH THEY HAVE. AND SO, I WOULD SAY THIS AREA. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): BUT REMEMBER, THIS ISN'T A GENERAL PLAN MAP, SO IT'S NOT THE BEST, BUT, LIKE, VILLAGE 2 IS STILL UNTOUCHED. THAT'S COMING. WE ALREADY HAVE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN THAT. I DON'T REMEMBER WHETHER THIS IS 4… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): C OR SOMETHING? 6. I THINK IT'S NOT A C, I THINK. AND THEN 6. AND THE OTHER SIDE, A UP HERE, THAT'S… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): UPCOMING, AND THEN ANOTHER ONE OUT HERE. SO, THERE'S STILL A LOT OF ROOM, AND YOU KNOW WHAT? IF YOU LOOK AT IT ON A MAP, IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S BEEN POORLY DONE. LIKE, THIS IS A GOOD AMOUNT OF DECENT OPEN SPACE FOR ANY COMMUNITY, BUT SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): YOU HAVE… YOU GOTTA FIGURE, LIKE, OUR TOTAL GEOGRAPHIC LAND MASS IS LIKELY GONNA DOUBLE OVER THE COURSE OF THE GENERAL PLAN, SO THIS IS A PERFECT TIME TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION, I THINK. OKAY. SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): DO WE HAVE A MAP FROM, LIKE, PCCP WHERE WE'RE HIGHLIGHTING SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): THE AREAS THAT WE WOULD REALLY WANT TO PROTECT, AND BE ABLE TO START WITH, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? AND, LIKE, A… SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): JUST HAVING KIND OF, LIKE, A BASELINE LOOK AT, WELL, THIS IS DEFINITELY WHAT WE WOULD WANT TO PROTECT AND BUILD AROUND, OR WHAT THE DEVELOPERS WOULD IDEALLY BUILD AROUND, AND HOW MUCH ACREAGE IS THAT? SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): PCSB HAS AN IDEA ABOUT THAT, BUT THEY'RE GENERALLY INTERESTED IN… OPEN SPACE TO THEM DOESN'T MEAN THE SAME THING AS IT MEANS TO US. TO THEM, IT'S… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): PRESERVATION OF HABITAT IS REALLY THE KEY GOAL. MOST OF… SO THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, ALONG, SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AUBURN RAVINE AND THE WATERWAYS, LIKE, THAT STUFF'S ALREADY ASSUMED TO BE PROTECTED, AND THAT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT GONNA… OF A RIVER. MOST OF PCCP'S AREA IS OUTSIDE. ALMOST ALL OF IT IS OUTSIDE. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): OUTSIDE OUR SPHERE OF INFLUENCE, AS DEFINED BY THE GENERAL PLAN. SO THEY'RE ASSUMING… THEY'RE ASSUMING ALMOST 100% DEVELOPMENT INSIDE, AND THEN MITIGATION OUTSIDE. OKAY. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF NATURAL RESOURCES THAT WOULD BE PROTECTED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. THAT'S RIGHT. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THE IDEA THAT WHEN THEY DESIGNED THAT PROGRAM WAS, LOOK, THERE'S ALL THIS MITIGATION COST AND PROCESS. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT LINCOLN AND PLACER COUNTY GET TO DEVELOP WHERE THEY WANT TO DEVELOP? SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): SO WHAT THEY DID IS, LIKE, WELL, LET'S CONSIDER IT BEING A PROBLEM. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): SORT OF. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): YEAH, THAT'S GREAT. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): FOLLOWING UP ON WHITNEY'S QUESTION FOR A SECOND. SO, DO WE HAVE AN IDEA OF WHERE CERTAIN AREAS ARE. SPEAKER 4 (LOGITECH): SIMILARLY. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): LIKE… LIKE CREEKS OR GROVES OF OLD, I MEAN, THAT SORT OF STUFF THAT, JUST GENERALLY SPEAKING, YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO, YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO TOUCH, JUST AS A STAR. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): I'M MAKING THIS UP, BUT CALL IT, 100 FEET ON CENTERLINE OF ANY WATERWAY, EITHER WAY. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): SO, LIKE, EITHER SIDE, 100 FEET FROM THE MIDDLE. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): PRETTY MUCH ALL OF THAT IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO DEVELOP ANYWAY, AND SO SHOULD BE HABITATS. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, OPEN SPACE AREA. THE DIFFERENCE IS, IS WE KNOW THAT'S GOING TO BE THE CASE. HOW DO WE INCENTIVIZE THAT… THAT BE AN AMENITIZED OPEN AREA? SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT, LIKE, FERRIS WHEELS, I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT, LIKE, YOU KNOW, A PATH SOMEWHERE FOR A BEAUTY SENT ME LUNCH, YOU KNOW, OR WHATEVER. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND… BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT OUR COMMUNITY KIND OF CONSISTENTLY TELLS US OVER AND OVER AGAIN, IS WE WANT MORE OF THAT STUFF, WE WANT MORE OF THAT STUFF. SO ALL OF THAT, I THINK, IS… THOSE… THE AREAS IN VILLAGE 5 WHERE BOTH RAVINES RUN THROUGH. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THOSE WILL END UP BECOMING PROTECTED ANYWAY, JUST AS A FUNCTION OF WHAT THEY ARE. I SHOULD HAVE INCLUDED PHIL'S VILLAGE 7B MAP, BECAUSE IT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE, BUT… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): HOW DO YOU CONNECT AND INTERSPERSE WITH THE REMAINDER OF THE OPEN SPACE TO THE STUFF THAT'S GONNA BE THERE ANYWAY? SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, A NATURAL ELEMENT. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): CAN WE GET A MAP JUST SHOWING THAT? I MEAN, JUST, YOU KNOW, NOT NOW, GOING FORWARD, I MEAN, JUST SO WE HAVE A STARTING POINT. YEAH, JUST AN OVERLAY. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): HERE'S… HERE'S THE TRADE THAT I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): SINCE 40% ISN'T A STANDARD, IT'S NOT… AND, YOU KNOW, I READ IT AND SAID COULD. WE'VE MADE IT INTO A… THAT'S THE MANTRA. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): WHAT IF YOU KIND OF GOT A LITTLE BIT MORE GRANULAR WITH YOUR STANDARD, WHICH IS THAT, YOU KNOW. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): 40% OF WHAT WE WOULD CALL, KIND OF, C-GRADE OPEN SPACE, OKAY, WELL, GREAT. BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO AMENETIZE IT, IF IT'S GOING TO BE ADJACENT TO A WATERWAY, IF IT'S GOING TO INTERSECT YOUR COMMUNITY SO THAT PEOPLE CAN WALK THROUGH AND GIVE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A BROAD, OPEN FEEL. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): MAYBE THE RATIO LOOKS MORE LIKE 35%, BECAUSE YOU'RE ACTUALLY PRODUCING SOMETHING THAT HAS REAL COMMUNITY VALUE VERSUS JUST RAW LAND THAT YOU'RE, YOU KNOW. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): NEVER GONNA BUILD ON. YEAH. AND THAT GIVES THE DEVELOPER AN INCENTIVE TO DO SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT MORE ON THIS END FOR POSSIBLY SLIGHTLY MORE BUILDABLE AREA. AND MOST OF OUR TRAIL SYSTEMS SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): ARE REIMBURSABLE UNDER OUR IMPACT FEE PROGRAM ANYWAY, SO… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT, LIKE, ADDING… HOPEFULLY NOT A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY TO DO IT, BUT THE… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): WE'VE JUST BEEN TRYING TO SORT OUT SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THERE ARE THINGS THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY WOULD WANT, AND WOULD BE HAPPY TO DO, I THINK, IF THEY COULD GET SOME SORT OF INCENTIVE ON THE BACK END FOR IT. SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): WOULD THAT BE ENOUGH OF AN INCENTIVE, OR IS IT… I GUESS I DON'T… YEAH, I MEAN, IS IT… TO ME, AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS A BAZILLION TIMES, BUT THE IDEAL, IN MY MIND, IS KIND OF, SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT JUST BE A FAIRY TALE WHERE EVERYTHING KIND OF LOOKS LIKE SUN CITY AND 12 BRIDGES, AND EVEN THOUGH THE TOPOGRAPHY AND THE LAND ISN'T THE SAME, THERE'S JUST SORT OF THAT, ALSO, SUN RIVER KIND OF LOOK, WHERE YOU GO THROUGH LINCOLN, AND IT'S ALL LIKE THAT, AS MUCH AS, YOU KNOW, IS LEFT TO MAKE IT THAT WAY, AND YOU'RE DRIVING, AND YOU JUST SEE, YOU KNOW, PLENTY OF OPEN AREAS THAT ARE BEAUTIFIED SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): BUT THEN, UNDER BALANCING AND UNDERSTANDING THE… SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): THE COST, AND THEN ALSO WHAT HOME PRICES WOULD BE TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD THAT. IS THERE A NEED FOR US TO INCORPORATE… INCORPORATE MAYBE, LIKE, A LITTLE BIT MORE, POCKETS OF… SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): APARTMENTS OR AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT WOULD BE THOUGHTFULLY DONE IN SOME OF THOSE AREAS SO THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT EVERY… EVERYBODY EQUALS OUT EACH DEVELOPER AND BUILDERS IN THE HOME. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, WHAT'S REALLY FUNNY IS THAT, WE LOOK AT OUR TRUE AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECTS IN LINCOLN, EXCEPT FOR THE MOST RECENT ONE AT TOLL BRIDGES. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THEY'RE ALL LOCATED ALONG PRESERVED AREAS. IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT, TOO. YEAH, THAT'S COOL. AND THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NICE PROJECTS. THEY'RE STILL NICE, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER, 35 YEARS LATER. BUT AS TO THE INCENTIVES, YOU PROBABLY HAVE TO ASK OUR ONE DEVELOPMENT FRIEND THAT'S HERE. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): WELL, THERE'S ALSO TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF… TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF OPEN SPACE. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): THERE'S VISUAL OPEN SPACE, AND THERE'S USABLE OPEN SPACE. YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE TO TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION ALSO. IT'S NICE TO HAVE VISUAL, BUT WOULD YOU… BUT USABLE IS SOMETHING ELSE, SO, YOU KNOW, WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE 40% OF OPEN SPACE, OF WHICH SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): 20% IS NOT USABLE, LIKE GOLF COURSES, WHICH IS VISUAL, OR WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE 30% OF REALLY USABLE SPACE FOR THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY? SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): I PERSONALLY WOULD RATHER HAVE THE LATTER. YEAH. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): OH, THAT'S… YEAH, THAT'S… THAT'S THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION HERE. YEAH. WE ALSO HAVE THE CAPACITY OF, LIKE. SPEAKER 4 (LOGITECH): MIXING STUFF TOGETHER AND GETTING DUAL CREDIT, SO OPEN SPACE CANNOT SOMETIMES SERVE AS STORM DRAIN BASINS AND THINGS. SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, OF THAT NATURE. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THE PRACTICE. SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): TACKLE USE. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): ANDERSON. SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, DEPENDS ON HOW YOU CAN DO IT, POTENTIALLY RECHARGE BASIN, YOU KNOW. SO, THERE ARE WAYS THAT YOU CAN KIND OF MIX THOSE IN, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW YOU'RE GOING TO TREAT SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): THE AMENITIZED RECREATIONAL FACILITIES WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE ENERGY SPACE. SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): ARE THEY COMPLETELY TWO SEPARATE THINGS? ARE THEY CONNECTED? YEAH. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, LIKE, YOU KNOW, DO YOU WANT, LIKE, SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): IT WILL INDIRECTLY KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. AN AMENITIZED… NO, NOT THE GOLF COURSE. DO YOU WANT AN AMENITIZED SOCCER COMPLEX? SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): WELL, SOCCER CUP. SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): THAT'S, LIKE, LIKE, TOURNAMENT SOFTBALL. SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): BASEBALL FIELD, BECAUSE THERE'S ONLY A VIEW IN THE AREA. SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): AND WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO HAVE LESS? SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): QUOTE-UNQUOTE, OPEN SPACE FOR A MORE AMENITIZED SPACE. AND THEN HOW IT WORKS WITH THE RELATIONSHIP WITH HOAS THAT MAY BE ADJACENT. SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, DID THEY TAKE ON SOME OF THE MAINTENANCE RESPONSIBILITIES? BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU CARE ABOUT IS THE ONGOING SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): COSTS OF… OF THOSE THINGS. I'M GLAD THAT YOU BROUGHT THAT UP, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN ON MY MIND, ABOUT… SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): OUR YOUTH, AND… THERE ARE A LOT OF COMMUNITIES THAT I HAVE SEEN THAT HAVE. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): SOMETHING WAY BETTER THAN OUR POOL. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): FOR THE… FOR THE… YOUTH, FOR THE GROUPS OF THE WHOLE CITY. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): AND I WOULD BE WEIGHING INTO… SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): FINDING A BALANCE OF THAT OVER THE SPACE DEAL, SO MONIES CAN BE PUT TOWARDS A COMMUNITY CENTER. SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): THAT IS… JUST KILLER. SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): THE…. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): COULD ALSO BE NOT JUST USED FOR COMMUNITY. SPEAKER 4 (LOGITECH): THE SELECTION ARCHIVE. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): LET'S FIND A WAY THAT WE CAN… IT'LL BE SO ATTRACTIVE. SPEAKER 4 (LOGITECH): THERE COULD BE IN SOME… SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): THAT COULD BE MADE ON THE CITY'S PART FOR… SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): I HAVEN'T SEEN YOU SO QUIET FOR SO LONG, JOHN. I'M JUST LISTENING. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): I MEAN, I… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): I THINK. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): LIKE SEAN HAD SAID, THE 40% HAS BEEN A SORT OF ASPIRATIONAL THING, AND PEOPLE PUT INTO THE BASKET WHAT THEY THINK IT MEANS. GENERAL PLAN DOESN'T CALL FOR IT, AND SO YOU HAVE THIS IDEA THAT WE WANT TO HAVE SORT OF THAT ENTRANCEWAY OFF OF 65, SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): WHICH DEFINES OUR COMMUNITY DIFFERENTLY THAN ROSEVILLE AND ROCKLAND CENTER. I THINK IS IMPORTANT, AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE. THAT STUFF'S ALREADY LOCKED IN. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): I THINK THAT THE… I THINK WE HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT A GOOD COMMUNITY IS, AND THEN BACK INTO AN OPEN SPACE OR A SERIES OF REQUIREMENTS THAT, LIKE, HELP GET US THERE, AND SO THINGS LIKE… SO YOU BASICALLY HAVE THIS 40%, THAT'S WHERE IT IS, AND IF… SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): AND THERE COULD BE THIS LIST OF THINGS THAT YOU COULD DO THAT WOULD REDUCE IT. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE HOMES IN THE COMMUNITY WERE X NUMBER OF FEET AWAY FROM A TRAILHEAD, OR A PASEO, OR A GREENBELT. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): FOR EVERY… THE CLOSER YOU GET, EVERY HOME WITH ONE OF THOSE, THE HIGHER… THE LOWER THE PERCENTAGE YOU CAN GET, RIGHT? AND SO THEN, YOU'VE JUST BASICALLY MADE THAT ENTIRE INFRASTRUCTURE AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE IN THE NEW COMMUNITY, MUCH CLOSER THAN IT IS. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): THAT'S REAL TANGIBLE BENEFIT TO THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE, AS OPPOSED TO AN EXTRA 10 FEET ON THE… I REFER TO IT AS THE DONUT, BECAUSE A LOT OF THE OPEN SPACE HAS TENDED TO KIND OF GO TO THE OUTSIDE. AND SO, IF THAT DONUT SHRINKS AND SOMEBODY COMES INSIDE, THE DIFFERENCE THERE IS GOING TO BE ALMOST IMPERCEPTIBLE TO PEOPLE WHO LIVE ON THE OUTSIDE. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): AND THE OVERALL FIELD, BUT IT WOULD BE REALLY MEANINGFULLY BETTER FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE INSIDE THE COMMUNITY. AND OTHER THINGS, LIKE, IF THAT… AND I DON'T MEAN, LIKE, A TRAIL THAT'S SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): THE CABLE KIND, BUT, LIKE, AN ACTUAL GREEN BELL WITH SOME LANDSCAPING AND A REALLY NICE WAY TO WALK THIS… YOU'VE GOT SOME… SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): SOME WIDTH TO IT, OR WHATEVER. AND THAT SYSTEM CAN CONNECT TO THE POCKET PARKS AND THE MAIN REGIONAL CENTERS INSIDE OF THAT AREA AND TO THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY. I THINK THAT HAS A LOT OF VALUE. YOU COULD GIVE EXTRA PERCENTAGE POINTS IF THAT TRAIL SYSTEM SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): WAS SEPARATE FROM THE ROAD SYSTEM, SO YOUR KIDS COULD BE ON THAT TRAIL SYSTEM AND NEVER HAVE TO INTERSECT A MAJOR INTERSECTION. THAT COULD GIVE YOU EXTRA PERCENTAGE POINTS TO DEVELOPMENT, BECAUSE YOU'VE DONE EXTRA COSTS TO MAKE THAT AMENITY A WIDER GROUP OF KIDS AND FAMILIES. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): THERE'S A LOT ABOUT DAVIS THAT DOESN'T WORK, BUT THEY'RE NORTH… SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): THEIR NORTH STAR, GREENBELT SYSTEM IS, HOLDS UP 45 YARDS AND TIERS LATER, WHERE YOU CAN GET FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER, AND TO THAT, ALL THE… ALL THE ACCESS TO ALL THE SHOPPING, THE TRAILS GO UNDERNEATH THE MAJOR… THE TWO MAJOR THOROUGHFARES, IT CONNECTS TO THE OTHER REGIONAL SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): PARKS IN THE AREA. I THINK THAT MODEL HAS A LOT OF APPEAL, AND IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO SOME OF OUR WEST SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): SIDE OF LINCOLN, WHERE IT'S RELATIVELY FLAT. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE, OR LINCOLN DOES, OR DAVIS DOESN'T HAVE NATURAL WATERWAYS, WE DO, AND THEN HAVING THOSE THINGS CONNECT INTO THEM, AND THEN EVENTUALLY CONNECT TO THE SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): SO, I GUESS MY SORT OF DIRECTION THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THOSE THINGS ARE THAT WE VALUE, AND THEN BE ABLE TO KIND OF PUT TOGETHER, THESE ARE THE THINGS THEY VALUE, AND FOR ALL THESE THINGS THAT DEVELOPER CHOOSES TO DO ON THEIR PROJECT, IT GIVES THEM A LITTLE BIT MORE DEVELOPABLE SPACE. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): OFF THE 40. SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): LIKE, AN INCENTIVE PLAN. YEAH. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): SO IT'S A LITTLE LESS OF A, LIKE, MANDATE YOU HAVE TO DO IT, BUT WE CREATE ENOUGH OF AN INCENTIVE THAT, ESPECIALLY FOR LARGER PROJECTS, THEY HAVE A LOT… THEY HAVE A LOT OF LAND TO WORK WITH. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): THAT THEY CAN REALLY DO SOME PRETTY CREATIVE THINGS. THEY'RE LIKE, WELL, YOU WOULD KNOW BETTER THAN I, BUT I'M SURE A PERCENT MEANS SOMETHING THE BIGGER THAT, YOU KNOW, 1% LESS OPEN SPACE IS. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): PROBABLY SOME REAL DOLLARS WHEN WE'RE GETTING BIGGER-SIZED PROJECTS, AND SO… SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): ANYWAY, THAT WOULD BE MY SORT OF INITIAL TAKE ON IT, IS TO SEE WHAT THOSE THINGS WE THINK ARE IMPORTANT ARE, AND THEN BUILD THEM INTO AN INCENTIVE PROGRAM THAT SAYS WE DO THESE THINGS, THE PERCENT COMES DOWN, BECAUSE THE OVERALL COMMUNITY WOULD BE BETTER OVER AT THE END. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): SEAN. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): WHAT ARE YOUR EXPECTATIONS COMING OUT OF THIS MEETING TODAY? SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THIS, BECAUSE I CAN TAKE THE TONE… TONE OF THE DISCUSSION, AND I SOMETIMES AM WRONG, BUT I'LL WRITE IT AS I HEAR IT, AND THEN… YOU CAN AMEND YOUR GENERAL PLAN FOUR TIMES A YEAR. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): WE'D HAVE TO TALK WITH DOUG ABOUT WHETHER THIS MEETS THE THRESHOLD OF ACTUALLY HAVING TO DO THAT. STANDARD ISN'T REALLY A STANDARD, SO I SUPPOSE WE COULD… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES I'VE DONE THIS, THROUGH… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR INTERPRETATION WHITE PAPERS, WHERE THEY'LL JUST SORT OF WRITE IT, PUT IT INTO A FILE, SO THE FUTURE PLANNERS CAN USE THAT AS AN INFORMAL TOOL. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): PROBABLY IN THIS CASE, THOUGH, IF YOU WANT TO GET PRETTY SPECIFIC, YOU KNOW, MAYBE YOU TAKE A POLICY DOCUMENT THAT YOU GUYS ADOPT, AND THIS KIND OF BECOMES OUR… PART OF OUR APPLICATION PACKET WE GIVE TO PEOPLE, SO THAT IT GIVES SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): DEVELOPERS A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN JUST, HEY, GO TAKE A LOOK AT OUR GENERAL PLAN. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): GOOD LUCK. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND… BECAUSE, LIKE, ALL OF THE THINGS THAT YOU SEE IN PROJECTS THAT YOU… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): WHEN YOU SEE THEM BUILDING THAT YOU GO, GOSH, I WISH WE HADN'T DONE THAT. THAT WAS ALREADY COOKED 7, 10, 15 YEARS AGO IN SOME CASES, SO IT'S A REALLY GOOD TIME TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION NOW, BECAUSE YOU KIND OF SET THE STANDARD. THE OTHER THING I WORRY ABOUT IS. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S GOOD FOR LINCOLN IF EVERYBODY DECIDES TO GO AHEAD AND JUST PAY THE PCCP FEES INSTEAD. I THINK YOU END UP HAVING… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): PACKED PROJECTS THAT DON'T REALLY HAVE SOME OF THAT FEEL THAT WE HAVE HERE IN MOST PLACES. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): SO, YOU KNOW, PROVIDING, YOU KNOW, A MORE ATTRACTIVE ALTERNATIVE BY USING YOUR OWN LAND MAKES A LOT OF SENSE TO ME. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH… THE STANDARD FOR… SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, PROPERTY IN LIEU OF, SO THE ONES THAT'S THE REALLY RICH STUFF THAT'S AROUND THE WATERWAYS AND HAS ACTUAL HABITAT, YOU'RE GOING TO GET CREDIT FOR THAT, BUT, LIKE, THE RICE FIELDS… RIGHT. YOU'RE NOT… YOU CAN LEAVE IT OPEN, BUT YOU'RE NOT REALLY GONNA GET MANY PCCP RELIEF FROM THAT, IN ALL LIKELIHOOD. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): IN THE SAME WAY. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, AND THEN I, YOU KNOW, I THINK THEN THERE'S THE, THERE'S THE, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WITH AN OPEN SPACE THAT'S THIS, I MEAN, SUN CITY… SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): WHICH KIND OF WAS THE NEXUS FOR THIS, IT WAS BUILT TO BE AN ATTRACTIVE COMMUNITY. LIKE, THEY THOUGHT THIS IS WHAT WAS REQUIRED TO SELL THE HOMES THERE. AND SO, THE 40% IS A BYPRODUCT FROM IT, BUT THEY MADE BUSINESS DECISIONS ABOUT HOW ALL THAT STUFF WAS LAID OUT. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): BASED ON HOW TO FILL THAT COMMUNITY IN AN AFFORDABLE WAY, AND, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE IN THE BUSINESS TO MAKE MONEY. AND YOU'VE GOT A GOOD PRODUCT AT THE END OF IT, AND I THINK SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): THE 40% NEEDS TO BE SUPPORTIVE OF THAT END, AND NOT, LIKE, SOMETHING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY AROUND. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): I AGREE. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): IS THERE ANYTHING THAT… TURNED AROUND. COULD WE SAY THAT… SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): PAYING THE FEE IS NOT AN OPTION. IN OTHER WORDS, YOU HAVE TO DESIGN SOMETHING WITHIN THE NEEDS. SPEAKER 4 (LOGITECH): WITHIN THE BOUNDARY HERE. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): NO, NO, I MEAN, SO, LIKE, WHATEVER CHANGES YOU GUYS DECIDE TO MAKE, OR WHATEVER SORT OF ADDITIVE POLICY THINGS, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO TAKE A REALLY CLOSE LOOK AT, I'M NOT OVERLY WORRIED ABOUT IT, BUT I'M A LITTLE BIT WORRIED THAT MANY OF THE PROJECTS THAT ARE STARTING… SO TAKE VILLAGE 5, FOR EXAMPLE. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): MANY OF THEM DEPENDED ON THE PCCP SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): FOR THE SEQUEL MITIGATION ELEMENTS. AND SO, IF YOU SCREW AROUND TOO MUCH WITH IT, YOU CREATE A WEAKNESS IN… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THE DOCUMENT, WHICH MEANS THAT, YOU KNOW, A STANDARD PROJECT THAT WOULD SWIM THROUGH THE PROCESS GETS SUED AT SOME POINT BECAUSE OF SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): GROUP DECIDES THAT THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT FOLLOWING THE PATIENT MEASURES. SO, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T FUND BALANCE IT SO MUCH THAT WE DO THAT. IT'S VERY SIMILAR WITH SPARTA FEES FOR TRANSPORTATION, SIMILAR KIND OF SCENARIO. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): THEY BECOME THESE KIND OF SEQUENCE, ESSENTIALLY. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN… SO I THINK, LIKE, THE PATH IS TO SAY, LOOK, YOU HAVE THE PCCP AS AN OPTION, SUPER SUPPORTIVE OF IT, IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT PROGRAM, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT. YOU CAN… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): FIND WAYS TO BE CREATIVE ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY. AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK, LIKE, JOHN'S POINT'S PERFECT, WHICH IS, IF YOU CREATE IT IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT GIVES DEVELOPERS AN INCENTIVE WHERE THEY CAN KIND OF MOVE THE NEEDLE ON THEIR PROJECT MORE, THEN EVERYBODY'S KIND OF RUNNING IN THE SAME DIRECTION AT THAT POINT. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): LIKE SCHOOL… HELPING TO BUILD SCHOOL UP FRONT. EXACTLY. SAME THING. JERRY, I JUST WANTED TO REMIND YOU, HANDS RAISED. I KNOW, I WAS JUST GOING TO DO THAT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS AT THIS POINT FROM THE COLLEAGUES? SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): OKAY, LET'S GO OUT TO THE ZOOM. SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): HEY, JERRY, I'M GOING TO ALLOW YOU TO TALK. DID YOU HEAR? SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): OH, WE CAN HEAR YOU NOW. AND I LOST, YOUR PICTURE, BUT THAT'S OKAY. I THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE OF SOME VALUE IF SOMEONE THAT WAS IN THE ROOM WHEN THAT 40% CRITERIA WAS DISCUSSED OR AGREED ON. AND, LIKE JOHN SAID, IT'S REALLY, AS A RESULT OF LOOKING AT DEL WEBB, AND, SAYING THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE LIKE, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'D LIKE, THROUGHOUT THE CITY. BUT THE FACT IS, THAT OPEN SPACE… WAS, PROBABLY C-GRADE OPEN SPACE WHEN IT STARTED OUT, AND GREG MCKENZIE AND HIS, CREW DELL WEB CREW, REALLY, CHANGED THAT OPEN SPACE, AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE GOLF COURSE, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE ANYWAY, BUT, THE OPEN SPACE THAT SHE… YOU SEE TODAY IS MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE AS AN OPEN SPACE AND, MORE ATTRACTIVE. THAN IT EVER WOULD BE IF THEY WERE JUST TRYING TO PROTECT IT. THAT… THAT WASN'T… IT WASN'T HOW THAT WORKED. ANOTHER POINT, THAT I WOULD STRESS, THAT THE ONLY REASON THE DEL WEBB, PUT THE MONEY THAT THEY DID INTO MAKING THE OPEN SPACE AS ATTRACTIVE AS IT IS WAS BECAUSE THEY KNEW IT WOULD CREATE A PREMIUM FOR THE LOTS IN THAT AREA. AND IN FACT, THE LOT PREMIUMS ON THE OPEN SPACE WERE IN EXCESS OF $100,000. SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): YEAH. SO, YOU KNOW, IT WAS… IT WAS, MONEY THAT THEY COULD TAKE TO THE BANK. BUT… BUT GREG HAD THE, THE IDEA THAT, HE WOULD MAKE THE WATERS FLOW, THE, THE RIPARIAN AREAS ATTRACTIVE FOR WILDLIFE, AND, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE COMPARISONS IN VILLAGE 1, AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF SCARY THE WAY THEY FILL IN WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN MADE A NATURAL, ATTRACTIVE OPEN SPACE, AND I HOPE THAT'S NOT WHERE WE'RE GOING. THAT WOULD CONCLUDE MY REMARKS. THANK YOU. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): I'M JURY. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): OKAY… TONY. THANK YOU, AND MY APOLOGY FOR NOT BEING THERE, I JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT IT. I'D LIKE TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THAT YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT OPEN SPACE, AS THE GENERAL PLAN MENTIONED. AND THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT I READ IN THE GENERAL PLAN WE TRIED TO IMPLEMENT EVERYWHERE ELSE. IT'S NOT JUST OPEN SPACE WHEN WE COUNT IN OPEN SPACE, SO THE 40% IS NOT STRICTLY OPEN SPACE THAT JUST HABITAT AND NOTHING ELSE. IT INCLUDES PASSIVE RECREATION, IT INCLUDES DIFFERENT ELEMENTS. OTHERWISE, THE 40% OPEN SPACE BECOME 50 AND 60%, WHICH THEN YOU CANNOT REALLY GET DEVELOPMENT MOVING FORWARD. AS JERRY MENTIONED, THE WEB, I WORKED ON THE WEB, AND I WAS BASICALLY WORKING, INITIALLY WITH THE WEB BEFORE EVEN FRASIER DESIGN GROUP, AND WORKING ON IT TO TRY TO MAKE SURE WE GET A PROJECT THAT IS SELLABLE AND BECOMES A JEWEL. AND IT'S NOT ANY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE DID IN VILLAGE 1, AND IT BECAME THE CONCEPT FOR THE REST, IN THE SENSE THAT THE OPEN SPACE IS NOT STRICTLY 40%, IT INCLUDES AREAS THAT WE MADE AS OPEN SPACE, LIKE THE GOLF COURSES. YOU KNOW, WE TOOK RIDGES, AND I PUT LAKES, AND I DID FEATURE, BUT THEN WE PRESERVED THE OPEN SPACE WHERE IT IS, YOU KNOW, WHERE'S THE NATURAL FLOWS? THOSE ARE PRESERVED, AND THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH VILLAGES THAT YOU HAVE, IS IT VILLAGE 1 OR 5 OR 7, YOU ARE REQUIRED TO MAINTAIN ALL THESE FLOWS IN OPEN AREA THAT BECOME EITHER FEMA OR NATURAL HABITAT. THAT THE CITY ULTIMATELY MAINTAIN, OR PRIVATELY, IN THE SENSE OF THE WEB. BUT YOU CAN TRY TO ADD THE TRAILS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, SO THE WEB, WE ADDED TRAIL IN THE OPEN SPACE, BUT IT'S NOT WITHIN THE FLOW AREAS. WE HAD MORE CHANCES, AND BEFORE BECAME STRICTER. RIGHT NOW, IT'S HARDER TO PUT THE TRAILS WHERE YOU WANT THEM, SO THEY END UP MORE TOWARD THE ROADS. BUT THE POINT I'M MAKING IS THAT EVEN WITH PCCP, YOU HAVE TO STILL PRESERVE OPEN SPACE, WHEREAS YOU HAVE A CREEK, LIKE AUBURN RAVINE OR INGRAM SLOUGH, THEN YOU ARE PRESERVING THOSE IF YOUR MITIGATION IS THROUGH A PCP OR NOT, YOU HAVE BUFFERS TO MAINTAIN. AND THEN YOU HAVE TO PAY THE, YOU KNOW, THE FEES THAT YOU PAY INTO PCCP IS FOR THE MISCELLANEOUS SMALL WETLANDS THAT YOU'RE IMPACTING, THAT THEY ARE NOT IN THE TRUE OPEN SPACE. AND THEN FOR LAND CONVERSION, FOR THE REST OF THE AREAS THAT YOU'RE PENALIZED, EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT OPEN SPACE VALUE, BUT IT'S THE LAND THAT YOU'RE BUILDING ON IT, YOU'RE PAYING FOR IT. BUT THE KEY, YOU KNOW, AND I DON'T WANT TO TAKE THIS, TOO MUCH OF YOUR TIME, GUYS, IS THAT WE DON'T WANT TO TAKE TOO MUCH AND TRY TO CHANGE BACKWARD, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WE HAVE VILLAGE 1, WE HAVE VILLAGE 5, WE HAVE… WE HAVE VILLAGES THAT ALREADY ESTABLISHED THE FORMULAS, AND WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING TO UPSET THE WILDCARD THAT… IN THOSE VILLAGES. EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE TOUGH, MILLIONS OF DOLLARS BEING PAID TO PCP, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE KEEPING EVERYTHING ELSE INTACT, BECAUSE A LOT OF MAPS ARE MOVING FORWARD BASED ON THOSE EIR-SPECIFIC PLANS ALREADY BEEN ESTABLISHED. BUT ANY ADDITIONAL FLEXIBILITY TO MAKE IT BETTER FOR LINCOLN, WE'RE ALL THERE, YOU KNOW? SO THE DIALOGUE IS GREAT, AS LONG AS WE DON'T UNDO SOMETHING THAT IS ALREADY WORKING. THAT'S THE POINT. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): THANKS, JOHN. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): ANYONE ELSEWHERE? THAT'S IT. SO, MAYOR, ONE THING I'LL JUST ADD TO TONY'S, COMMENT THERE, WHICH… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): IS CORRECT. IT MIGHT ALSO BE HELPFUL FOR YOU TO HEAR WHAT, UNDER THE AESTHETIC SECTION OF OUR GENERAL PLAN. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): IS… CAN BE COUNTED TOWARDS YOUR OPEN SPACE RECORD. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): PUBLIC PARKS, GOLF COURSES, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, NATURAL AREAS TO BE RETAINED AS OPEN SPACE. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): TRAILS. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): LAND WITHIN BUFFER AREAS, LAND WITHIN UTILITY CORRIDORS, LAND UTILIZED FOR JUST NATURAL OPEN SPACE. WHAT CANNOT BE USED TOWARDS THAT RATIO IS OBVIOUSLY LAND OWNED BY INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNERS. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): REQUIRED ROADWAY RIGHT-OF-WAYS, INCLUDING MEDIANS, BUT IF YOU HAVE A LARGER THAN REQUIRED ROADWAY AND RIGHT-OF-WAY, THE EXCESS AMOUNT COULD BE TOWARDS THAT, AND THEN POCKET PARKS COULD BE DONE. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): TOWARDS IT. NO. SO YOUR PARK HAS TO BE… WHAT ARE WE… WHAT ARE PARKS CALLED? POCKET, AND THEN THERE'S NEIGHBORHOOD AND REGIONAL? SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): THERE'S REGIONAL PARKS. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): SO, NEIGHBORHOOD WOULD BE BIGGER, REGIONAL WOULD BE BIGGEST. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): IT… SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK TO TONY'S POINT, I THINK IF YOU, YOU KNOW, IF YOU MAKE IT MORE OF, LIKE, AN INCENTIVE VERSUS A REQUIREMENT. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): THEN, THOSE THAT ARE ALREADY IN SOME LEVEL OF PROCESS CAN EVALUATE FOR THEMSELVES THAT THE INCENTIVE IS WORTH WORK… WORTH GOING BACK AND RETOOLING. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): AND IT WAS THEIR DISCRETION TO DO, AS OPPOSED TO US, LIKE, MAKING THEM CHANGE THE GEARS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PROCESS, OR WHATEVER. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): I THINK THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT SHE'S HAD TO MAKE IT… SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): RICH ENOUGH THAT IT MAKES SENSE TO REVISIT YOUR DESIGN IF YOU'RE… SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): OBVIOUSLY, AFTER YOU'VE TURNED DIRT, BUT PROBABLY BEFORE. YEP. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): YEAH, I RAISED MY HAND. SORRY, NO. NO, LISTEN, THIS ONE, FIRST, THIS WAS A GREAT DISCUSSION, AND I THINK. SPEAKER 4 (LOGITECH): AS SEAN TOUCHED ON, WITH EVERYTHING THAT WE. SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): WE'RE JUST LOOKING FOR THE RULEBOOK. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): WE RECOGNIZE, OF COURSE, THE GENERAL PLAN HAS THIS 40%. SPEAKER 4 (LOGITECH): GUIDANCE. SPEAKER 4 (LOGITECH): AND IT GIVES THE ALBUM. SPEAKER 7 (LOGITECH): IT GIVES A SUMMARY OF THINGS THAT COULD BE INCLUDED, AS CHARLES DESCRIBED AS OPENINGS. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): BUT, YOU KNOW, GOING BACK AND NOT TO BORE YOU WITH 20 YEARS OF HISTORY, PLUS, YOU KNOW, OUR ORIGINAL 515 ACRES WITHIN THE VILLAGE 7 SPECIFIC LAND, IT TOTALS ABOUT 700 ACRES. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): WE BACKED OUR WAY INTO 40% OPEN SPACE, BECAUSE WE WERE TRYING TO MINIMIZE THE AMOUNT OF WETLAND MITIGATION EXPENSE. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): IN ORDER TO QUALIFY FOR FEDERAL AND STATE PERMITS. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): AND SO, ALL OF THE PRESERVATION AREAS THAT YOU SEE, THOSE OPEN SPACE AREAS, ARE REMNANT OF THAT. AND WE GOT TO 40% PRETTY MUCH ORGANIC. WE'RE JUST TRYING TO MINIMIZE THE CHECKS WE WOULD HAVE TO WRITE TO GO PAY FOR, YOU KNOW, MITIGATION CREDITS. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): A WETLAND BANK FAR OFF INTO THE HINTERLANDS, RIGHT? SO, BUT TIED TO THAT, AS A RESULT OF OUR U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE BIOLOGICAL OPINION, WE WERE REQUIRED TO PRESERVE SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): NEARLY 200 ACRES OF A, YOU KNOW, PUT TOGETHER A CONSERVATION EASEMENT, WHICH WE DID DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO VILLAGE 7. SO IF YOU ACCOUNT FOR THAT AND OUR OPEN SPACE, WE'RE AT 50% OPEN SPACE PRESERVATION, INCLUDING ALL THE PARKS AND THE TRAIL CORRIDORS AND EVERYTHING ELSE. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): AND SO THE ADDITIONAL ACRES THAT WE'RE WORKING ON RIGHT NOW WITH MICHAELA. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, WE CONSULTED WITH PCCP ABOUT PRESERVING WHAT WAS IDENTIFIED IN THE ORIGINAL LAND USE PLAN AS A PLAN. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): AND THE PCA TEAM SAID, WELL, NO, THOSE DON'T QUALIFY IN THE HABITAT CONSERVATION PLAN. WE WANT YOU TO IMPACT THOSE SO YOU PAY FEES TO US SO WE CAN GO ACQUIRE LANDS ELSEWHERE. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): SO WE'VE REDESIGNED THE LAND USE PLAN FOR THAT, BUT IN THAT DESIGN, WE'VE CREATED TRAIL CORRIDORS THROUGHOUT, SO THAT IF YOU'RE RESIDING IN THE CENTER OF A COMMUNITY, YOU CAN GET TO AUBURN V, YOU CAN GET TO THE EDGES. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): I THINK THAT THOSE TYPES OF THINGS SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): IF YOU COULD ASSEMBLE SOME GUIDELINES, REALLY MORE SO GOALS OF WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH WITH 40% OPEN SPACE. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): THAT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL. AND IF IT'S A SCORING IDEA, GREAT, BUT JUST GIVE FOLKS KIND OF A ROADMAP OF HOW TO SUCCEED. AND SO, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW, I THINK WE'VE GOT SOMETHING PREPARED THAT'S PRETTY PALATABLE, ACCOMPLISHING ALL THOSE GOALS, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE DESIGNING COMMUNITIES. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): RAW LAND FROM DAY ONE, WE TRY TO IDENTIFY THE CONSTRAINTS. WHERE ARE THE WETLAND FEATURES? WHERE'S THE SPECIES HABITAT? AND WE LOCK THOSE AREAS DOWN. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): AND THEN FROM THERE IS BUILDING AMENITIES. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): SO, HOW CAN WE CREATE, TRAIL CORRIDORS, AND WHERE SHOULD WE PLACE PARKS? AND IF YOU TAKE A PEEK DRIVE THROUGH OUR INDEPENDENCE AND LINCOLN COMMUNITY, WHICH WAS NOT IN A SPECIFIC PLAN. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): WE… WE PRESERVED A LOT OF LAND. CREEK CORRIDOR, WE SITED PARKS NEXT TO… NEXT TO THE CREEK CORRIDOR, TRAILS WITHIN THE CREEK CORRIDOR. I'M NOT SURE IF WE GOT TO 40%, BUT I THINK THAT WOULD… IF YOU TOOK A LOOK AT THAT, THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE A GOOD SCORING. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): EXERCISE. COMING CLOSE. …IS HOW WE ACHIEVE THAT. AND SO, IT'S… SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): NOTHING REALLY SHOULD BE BAKED IN STONE. I MEAN, I DO AGREE THAT YOU SHOULDN'T ALLOW SOMEONE, AND AT THE SAME TIME, ALLOW IS THE WRONG WORD, BECAUSE IF SOMEONE IS REQUIRED TO PAY A FEE TO GO IMPACT SOMETHING, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): YOU CAN'T JUST WALK AWAY FROM THAT. AND FOR PLANNING EXERCISES, YOU CAN SAY, WELL, YOU ALSO NEED TO DO THIS. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): AND WE'LL WORK WITH YOU ON HOW TO ACCOMPLISH THAT, WHILE STILL PAYING THE FEE THAT YOU HAVE TO PAY TO THE OUTSIDE AGENCY. BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO BE FLEXIBLE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, PROVIDE SOME GUIDANCE. I WOULD CALL IT A CHECKLIST OF THINGS YOU NEED TO STRIVE TO ACHIEVE. AND A LOT OF TIMES, WE CAN PROBABLY HIT ALL OF THEM. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): YEAH, THAT'S HELPFUL. SO, SO THEN… SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): WELL, THAT IS ANOTHER LAYER, BUT, SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): OKAY, SO THERE'S 50%, BASICALLY, THAT HAS TO BE PRESERVED OR CONSERVED DUE TO JUST ENVIRONMENTAL AND, WETLANDS PRESERVATION, AND THAT'S JUST THEIR STARTING POINT. SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): THEN WE'RE HOPING TO ACHIEVE, I THINK, LIKE, OUR WISH LIST IS THE 40%-ISH, OR SOMEWHERE… SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, USABLE WITHIN… THE HOUSES. SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): IS THAT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO SAY? SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): NO, SO I THINK… I THINK WHAT YOU WERE SAYING IS IT WAS EFFECTIVELY 50%, NOT 40, BECAUSE THEY CONSERVED THE LAND NEXT TO THE LIST SPOT, RIGHT? IN TOTALITY. IN TOTALITY ENDED UP BEING 50, BUT I WANT TO GUESS, AND YOU CAN TELL ME ABOUT THIS, IT DEPENDS ON WHERE YOUR LAND IS. YOU KNOW, SO IF YOUR LAND IS INTERSECTING THESE THINGS, OR THEY'VE IDENTIFIED WETLANDS. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): THEN, IN PCCP TERMS, YOU'RE GOING TO PAY LAND CONVERSION ON ALMOST ANYTHING THAT YOU TOUCH, ANYTHING NEAR SOMETHING YOU TOUCH, AND THEN THE SPECIES, THE WETLANDS MITIGATION IS THE FEE ON TOP OF IT, WHICH THAT GETS PRETTY PRICEY PRETTY FAST. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): SO THERE'S A STRONG ECONOMIC INCENTIVE TO AVOID THOSE MITIGATIONS IN THE PCCP PROGRAM, AND YOU WEREN'T EVEN WORKING WITH THAT FOR 7, RIGHT? SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): SO, LIKE, SOME OF THAT STUFF'S GONNA DRIVE THE DECISION-MAKING ANYWAY. YEAH. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): BUT, YOU KNOW, INSIDE THE 40% IS OUR PARKS, WHICH IS A LITTLE HIGHER THAN THE STATE AVERAGE, AND THEN… SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): WHAT ELSE GOES IN THERE? CAN, YOU KNOW, TRAILS ARE IN THERE IF WE WANT TO HAVE GREEN BELLS AND PASEOS BE A BIGGER HIGHLIGHT THAN THEY'VE BEEN IN THE PAST TO CONNECT INTERIORS TO THE TRAILS THAT ARE TRADITIONALLY KIND OF MORE GOING AROUND THE OUTSIDE, TYPICALLY, BUT MORE OF THESE KIND OF MORE LUSH. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): BUILT OUT, DEVELOPED LANDSCAPES, CORRIDORS TO GET YOU FROM THE INSIDE TO THE OUTSIDE, AND THEN GET YOU TO THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY. I THINK THAT'S SOME OF THE GUIDELINES, AND THEN TO THE EXTENT TO WHICH THAT MUCKIES UP WITH, I MEAN, THE INCENTIVE, SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, DRAGGING, IN LINCOLN, DRAGGING SEWER AND WATER SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): MILES, AND SOME… NOT IN YOUR CASE, YOU'RE GOING TOO FAR, BUT, LIKE, VILLAGE FIGHTER'S GOING TO DRAG THEIR STUFF MILES. AND SO, YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU DO IT, THEN YOU GOTTA PAY FOR ALL THAT STUFF UNDERGROUND. YOU CAN'T SEE, AND THE FURTHER YOU'RE SPREAD OUT, THE MORE EXPENSIVE THAT IS, AND THAT ACCESS TO CFDS, AND THE LOT COSTS, AND ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF. SO THERE'S… SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): THERE'S… BUT IF THEY KNOW THERE'S A WAY TO DO IT, THEN YOU HAD TO CARRY, YOU KNOW, PLAY AROUND WITH YOUR LAYOUTS TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT STILL BE EFFICIENT, BUT ALSO GET THE TRAIL THROUGH THERE WITHOUT TURNING INTO THIS HUGE, SPRAWLING MESS WITH THE INFRASTRUCTURE ON THE GROUND BECOMES UNTENABLE. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): BUT THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE GREAT PEOPLE WORKING FOR YOU TO FIGURE THAT OUT. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): YES. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): SO IT'S… I THINK THE… TO PHIL'S POINT, IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT JUST WAS ONE SIZE FITS ALL, BECAUSE EVERY PROJECT'S SUPER DIFFERENT, BUT YOU COULD HAVE… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): I'M… PLANNERS REALLY NEED TO SPEAK OUT. I'M… I'M ASSUMING THAT… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): IF IT WERE ME WORKING ON A PROJECT, I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHERE I'M REVIEWING IT, AND I GET ON THE PHONE WITH PHIL, AND I GO, ALRIGHT, BUD. SO, THIS… SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): DOESN'T HAVE ANY OF THE 10 THINGS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT. IS THERE SOME WAY WE COULD AT LEAST WORK IN A COUPLE OF THESE? BECAUSE WHEN WE GET TO PLANNING COMMISSION, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON, OR JOHNSON, OR, YOU KNOW, GILBERT MAY SAY, HEY, SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): HOW ARE WE… I NOTICED THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GETTING TO ABOUT A 35% OPEN SPACE AREA HERE, BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY LOOK LIKE IT'S GOT ANYTHING NEAT. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE SUPER USABLE, WHICH IS… WHICH I THINK WOULD BE REASONABLE FEEDBACK, BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN HAVING THAT DISCUSSION A LONG WAY, RIGHT? IT'S LIKE, I ALWAYS TELL A STORY THAT, LIKE, BEFORE THE RECESSION, WHEN THE MARKET WAS JUST EXPLODING. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND I WAS WORKING AS A PLANNER. YOU COULD ASK FOR ALL KINDS OF STUFF, LIKE, THAT WASN'T EVEN IN THE CODE. YOU KNOW, HEY, I THINK THIS WOULD BE NEAT. WOULD A WATER FEATURE OUT FRONT BE COOL? AND NOT ALL OF THEM, BUT MANY DEVELOPERS WERE LIKE, LOOK, WE'RE MAKING SO MUCH OVER MARGIN, SURE, WITH WHATEVER GETS THE PROJECT THROUGH FASTER, RIGHT? REMEMBER THOSE CASES? SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AND THEN 2009 HAPPENED, AND THAT ALL ENDED. AND SO, LIKE, NOW THE QUESTION THAT I THINK DRIVES MOST DEVELOPERS NUTS IS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T, FROM A STAFF LEVEL SOME COOL DESIGN FEATURE THAT WE THINK WOULD ADD VALUE, AND I WOULD DO THE SAME THING. THE DEVELOPER'S LIKE, GREAT! SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): WHERE DOES IT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THAT? OR IS THAT JUST MICHAELA'S OPINION? OR… OR TOM'S, SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): SO, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT ENOUGH NOW, I THINK, BUT I WANT, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION, BUT I HAVE SOME IDEAS NOW ABOUT SOME OF THOSE THINGS, AND THEN WHAT WE CAN KIND OF DO IS CREATE A SCALE THAT SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): ADJUST THE PERCENTAGE REQUIREMENT A LITTLE BIT. THERE IS A SECTION THAT I DIDN'T INCLUDE IN YOUR STAFF REPORT, BUT I'LL EMAIL IT AROUND. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): AFTER, THAT TALKS ABOUT SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): HOW OPEN SPACE IS SUPPOSED TO BE DESIGNED, AND THEY'RE VERY BROAD KIND OF CATEGORIES. FOR EXAMPLE, SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): OPEN SPACE VIEWS. TO ENHANCE VIEWS OF HILLSIDES, OPEN SPACE, AND OTHER DISTINCTIVE VIEWS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, PROJECT DESIGNS ARE EXPECTED TO MAINTAIN VIEWER SHED BY REGULATING BUILDING ORIENTATION, HEIGHT, AND SIZE. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): SO, IT'S NOT REALLY JUST THE AREA THAT YOU'RE SETTING ASIDE AS OPEN SPACE, IT'S HOW… WHAT ARE YOU BUILDING AROUND IT? IS IT REALLY USABLE? IF YOU HAVE THESE MONOLITHIC BUILDINGS, AND YOU HAVE… LIKE, HAS ANYONE EVER WALKED DOWN CORRIDORS SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): IN BIGGER CITIES WHERE THEY HAVE, KIND OF, GREEN BELTS, BUT THERE'S HUGE BUILDINGS ON EITHER SIDE OF YOU, SO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE WALKING THROUGH A WEIRD ALLEY OR SOMETHING. LIKE, THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH. SPEAKER 2 (LOGITECH): BUT I THINK WE CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S NOT OVERLY COMPLEX, THAT JUST SORT OF GIVES SOME GENERAL GUIDANCE, AND THEN ALLOWS FOR US TO, YOU KNOW, THEM TO MAKE SOME OBJECTIVE DECISIONS ABOUT WHETHER THEY CAN APPLY A 35% STANDARD, OR… SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WOULD IT HELP TO DO A PERCENTAGE OF GREENBELT? SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): HOMES? SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): I WAS GONNA ASK YOU, PHIL, ALONG THOSE LINES, DOES IT… DOES IT MAKE SENSE… IS IT A… IS IT MATH THAT WORKS FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW? SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): THE… THE TRADE-OFF BETWEEN THE COMPLEXITY OF BRINGING SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): TRAIL, GREENBELT SALE ACCESS CLOSER TO HOMES IS OFFSET BY AN OVERALL LOWER PERCENTAGE. I MEAN, THAT'S JUST… IT'S THE DEVIL'S IN THE DETAILS, OF COURSE, BUT IS THAT GENERAL STRUCTURE, LIKE, WORKABLE? LIKE, THAT GIVES YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO MAKE THOSE TRADE-OFFS AND SAY, WELL, THIS IS HOW CLOSE I CAN GET BASED ON THE MATH IN MY PLAN AND ALL THAT? SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): THAT JUST GIVES YOU GUIDANCE TO BE CREATIVE. AND, YOU KNOW, MICHAELA WILL SAY, THIS, I WANT THIS AND I WANT THAT, CAN YOU DO THIS? AND SO IT'S JUST UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE DESIRES ARE, OR EVEN AT A GIVEN POINT IN TIME, WHAT ARE THE COMMUNITY NEEDS? THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING UNIQUE TODAY THAT DIFFERS FROM TOMORROW. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): SO IF WE UNDERSTAND THAT WE CAN BUILD THOSE THINGS IN, AND THOSE BECOME THE TRADE-OFFS THAT WE CAN ACCOMPLISH. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): IT IS A… TO SUGGEST, I MEAN, COUNCILMEMBER EKLUND, IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO SAY 20% GREEN SPACE, NATURAL GREEN SPACE. WELL, IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT TO BEGIN WITH. SPEAKER 8 (LOGITECH): EFFICIENT AGRICULTURAL FIELD, A FARM FIELD, THAT'S REALLY NOT TRUE OPEN SPACE TODAY, IT'S UTILIZED, BUT IF YOU DO, YOU CAN GET CREDIT FOR THAT. I MEAN, I GOT… I HAVE 20% THAT I CAN PRESERVE FOR SURE, OR MAYBE GREATER. IT DEPENDS ON THE AREA. SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): AND, YOU KNOW, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE. SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): I'M ON THE CITY'S SIDE, YOU KNOW, PHIL BRINGS ME HIS REVISED LAND USE PLAN, AND… SPEAKER 5 (LOGITECH): YOU'D BE INSANE TO THINK THAT I'M NOT GOING TO SIT HERE AFTER 3 YEARS HERE AND SAY, YOU KNOW, HEY. SPEAKER 9 (LOGITECH): I KNOW COMMISSIONER JERRY JOHNSON, YOU KNOW, HONES IN ON THIS, YOU KNOW, COUNCILMEMBER REEDY AND EKLAM, LIKE, THEY'LL HONE IN ON THIS. SO, I DO PROVIDE THAT FEEDBACK OF. SPEAKER 9 (LOGITECH): THIS IS THE COMMENTARY THAT'S GONNA COME YOUR WAY. IT'S AN INFORMAL WAY OF ESSENTIALLY HAVING AN OBJECTIVE LIST OF THINGS. YOU KNOW, I KNOW WHAT THE KEY TOPICS OF CONNECTIVITY, TRAIL SYSTEMS, YOU KNOW. SPEAKER 9 (LOGITECH): ACCESSIBILITY FOR INTERNAL RESIDENTS OF A SUBDIVISION TO HAVE ACCESS TO THAT OPEN SPACE, SO IT'S NOT JUST ON THE PERIPHERY. BUT THAT'S A VERY INFORMAL WAY OF DOING IT, OF WHAT I PROJECT OR PREDICT THAT YOU ALL ARE GOING TO SAY WHEN, YOU KNOW, I'M UP AT THE DAIS SPEAKING. SPEAKER 9 (LOGITECH): SO WE… WE BUILD THAT IN, BUT IT'S VERY INFORMAL, AND I COULD BE WRONG. I COULD BE WRONG THAT, YOU KNOW, YOUR CHANGES IN YOUR PREFERENCES MAY HAVE CHANGED SINCE THE LAST TIME WE SPOKE, OR A SIMILAR PROJECT CAME UP. SO… SPEAKER 9 (LOGITECH): THINGS CHANGE, BUT IF WE DID HAVE A PRESCRIPTIVE LIST, LIKE, THAT WOULD BE EASIER FOR US. IT'S DEFINITELY NOT A ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL SCENARIO, AND, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SOMEONE CAN PROVIDE MORE, AND WE'LL GIVE… WE'LL GIVE MORE IN ASSOCIATION WITH THAT, BUT… SPEAKER 9 (LOGITECH): WE DO THAT PROCESS REGARDLESS, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE PERFECT, BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF A GUESS OR PREDICTION, JUST BASED ON PREVIOUS CONVERSATIONS AND CRITIQUES WE'VE HEARD. SPEAKER 3 (LOGITECH): WE'RE KIND OF PILLAGING. SPEAKER 6 (LOGITECH): PICKING UP WHAT BEN SAID EARLIER, AND THEN PHIL, SO THERE'S THIS ONE IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, BRINGING OPEN SPACE IN AND CLOSER TO HOME