Special Investigatory Committee on JEA

Good afternoon. >> Welcome to the special Committee on j a let me begin by introductions to my far left. >> Calling him council research. Areas to fall. Plus office of General Counsel Ryan Parks counselor's Office Peterson Council water. Case until Legislative Council. Good afternoon, Rick Diamond District 13, the beaches, Ron Salem group, 2 at large Ju'coby Pittman District. 10 Kevin Carrico district 4. Carlucci at large. Group or just visiting. Before we get into. I understand MISS Kb, you have an opening statement. I was told just a few minutes ago. Yes survey, okay. I understand it's like 5 or 10 minutes. I don't think is that long ok, we'll get to you in just a couple minutes. Capacity fee update. Council auditors. Through the chair to the committee. So kind of the update on where we are. >> First start with where isn't there processing focusing on the 3 inch and larger and based on their approach. They've calculated a high amount that should be no more than 25 million cumulative since about 2003, that was mentioned by Jodi Brooks and her last meeting as well. We have validated certain aspects of that calculation and have reasonably that based on the approach that some calculations MAY be understated slightly in certain situations from a maximum exposure. >> And then there's also another is that they've mentioned in their thing that they are actually overstated and that because will be multi-family related where if there's not a change in the number of units, they anything. So there's aspects of that that we're working through. And we were right now upstairs reviewing that we are working to finalize our approach for testing and hope to be at least through the 3 inch and larger meters. By the time the city Council returns from break. No matter what we will have to take a break for budget review. We are also hoping to form at least some testing related to the smaller than 3 inch meters to determine whether we need to Tess further or whether or not there's a valid reason to exclude from testing it. There's real amount that could be owed. >> Could you explain your 25 million dollar comment that you said a couple minutes ago? >> as Judy also mentioned in her testimony other day, they've calculated initial amount of a key motive that that would be 25 million that was not collected, on a high. Again, that's what they've stated as and so we are reviewing their analysis and stuff like that and testing different pieces of that as we're going through right now. >> And that includes that would include Mayo Clinic. And that 25 Million? Yes, because any meat or larger than 3 inch 3 inches and larger. And so that's you what? Sure would love to get this done before the budget process. But I'm sure y'all are. >> Doing everything you can to do that MR. Petersen is I'm sure. Update on the employee survey mission to Heal. MR. Chair through the chair, the committee. So this are alive today. >> And so got an email this morning from our contact its election link confirming that it went live on as within the few first. Few minutes of it being like they've already got 19 responses. And so so clearly the employees have have access to it. It is going to run for 2 weeks and they are scheduling for a separate additional emails to remind folks that haven't completed to them to go online and complete it. So it's up and running. It's live. It's going according to plan. And we expect that it will close 2 weeks from today. >> The ordinance, the past, we will. We are allowed one presentation on that data from our survey that that presentation will be offered to the board of directors of jta if they would like to have it. And I'll talk more about that at the board meeting on Tuesday. >> Kate? I need to. I need to read this statement plays. Do you solemnly swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth during the penalties of perjury. I do ok, would you please give us your opening statement? Sir. >> Thank you. Chair Salem and members of the committee. I am Vicky kv, Managing director and ceo of j. I am proud to work with every team member and want to publicly acknowledge and thank them. For the fantastic job they do. 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days. A year providing vital services for our community. My apologies ahead of time to the committee. I'm a bit hard of hearing. And I MAY ask you to repeat some questions. Thank you to Teresa Eichner. And her technology team for providing this ada compliant advice for me. COUNCILMAN Salem. I heard your concerns regarding committee meetings and workshops not being live streamed. And recorded. Optics matter. Those meetings are always on recorded. But again, optics matter. We live stream the recent budget workshop and we will be live streaming and recording committee meetings and workshops from now on. A word on our recent survey. Jta has done employee engagement serve pays for decades. Engagement surveys are intended to give employees a voice and to effectuate change. The survey is a tool for continuous improvement. Not a performance review, nor an assessment of individual leaders. The survey goes to every single jta employee and has been scheduled to launch in MAY some time ago. We will be using these results to develop action plans for addressing key issues within individual groups and corporately as well. The strongest positive theme was the quality of our people and teams. And I couldn't agree more. The survey comments show that some employees have concerns regarding trust in leadership decisions. It also shows that other employees are supportive of the direction we're taking. We are focused on the organizational issues employees raised and what we can do to improve. Employees care deeply about this organization, our customers and our future. They are asking leadership to communicate, clearly build trust and create an environment where they can succeed. Those are reasonable expectations and we are committed to addressing them. Jodie Brooke. Sanjay, a staff did an excellent job of explaining the combined cycle Project. I hope answered your questions. As you heard. Also the legacy additional capacity fee issue is very complicated. We are diligently working towards a solution and thank you to the council auditors office for their engagement. Now, take your questions. >> Thank you. MISS Kb what I'd like to do today. We're going to go to MISTER First MR. Diamond second Councilmember Pittman. 3rd, all be 4th. We'll go to PRESIDENT Carrico 5th and then any other council members that are here will go after that. MR. Tale. Thank Chair. >> Afternoon is Katie afternoon. First, if you could elect to talk about initially kind of how you became ceo. And so I wanted to really talk about initially you were brought in as a liaison to the board. Is that correct? Yes, sir. And you know, when that was? >> That was MARCH 25th of 2024. >> And what were your duties as a liaison to the board? >> I was to look into o and m expenses. Remote work. And anything else. The board asked me look into. >> And was due to the departure of Jay Stowe? Gerri was still there. Ceo Jay Stowe was still there and are good. Yeah, it was because the board had concerns. An Elmwood him expenses about capital projects, 5 capital projects that had gone over 100 million dollars without board approval. They were concerned about remote work. They were concerned about some issues that showed up in the news that they were unaware of paying for alcohol at a Christmas party. They were concerned about out of state leaders. >> So they had concerns about the manner in which the ceo was operating j. And how long were you the liaison to the board? >> MARCH 25th. Until APRIL. 15. >> And what happened to to cause you to change from being the liaison to the board. >> What happened to change is. I guess a j decided to resign. And we had found some issues that the board was unaware and j decided to resign. And so you are named interim csr. The point. And how long were you I was from APRIL 15th until I believe SEPTEMBER. >> And in SEPTEMBER, you became the permit ceo, correct? Yes, sir. And what was the process whereby you were selected? Permanent ceo. Was there a nationwide search or did you get offered the job? >> I was told by then chair MR. Body Stein. That he was going to nominate me. As ceo. >> So there is no other candidates that were considered. And did the board interview you did you have backup when when Jay Stowe got hired? There was a nationwide search and the board had selected several candidates and conducted interviews of those candidates right? Yes. And and but you did not have to go through that public interview process. Correct? Were you interviewed by the board members at all? I had worked with the board members in the past. 5 of the 7 of them I had worked with when I came in in 2020 till 2021. >> With Paul McElroy and also Jay Stone. Now I was. Going to be nominated, did not mean that I would be automatically. >> And so the board. That I do. In terms of they had a discussion about you at a public meetings that correct? >> I believe so. And were you present during that meeting? The reason why me this optics matter. Do you feel like the selection process was transparent? That would be aboard question Mon your opinion as a as adviser to the board as a ceo, in your opinion with that, was that process transparent? Let's have quick follow-up for Councilmember Dimon. You're recognized through chair MISS Katie, if there's no public meetings. >> Except for that very last one. How it comes out like a proper ceo process to hire somebody. >> The board. Made the decision. >> To nominate. They could nominate anyone they wanted. As interim ceo. MR. Stein, Ask Me what I do. It. And he was going to nominate me and I agreed. >> Yeah, I get fully and I don't blame you for the process. You didn't get to choose They were trying to get out. Here is there wasn't a single public meeting until you're nominated. Is that right? Nothing was public. There's nothing out there that you could watch or c until it's decided nominations in front of the inner part of the board. Is that right? >> It was done quickly. All say that mostly because Jay was resigning and they needed interim quickly I I'd like to also add that anyone else could have nominated someone else as well. >> I think the issue, though, is >> Pittman wants to jump in. >> How you one of the questions I wanted to ask. I know that process happened. But were you aware that another employee was interested and that position and did not get an opportunity interview the board was unaware. Well, you are aware that. MISS Marshall. Wasn't. What did she tell you? She was interested and the position. >> I did not know who would be interested or who would be dominated. >> But did she tell you that she was interested in the position. >> I don't recall a conversation like that. I do recall I called her the night before. To tell her. I knew always going to be nominated. Okay. >> And then. >> 2 weeks later or a few weeks later this you retire? >> That you wear. You know, you know, you know, Ms Marshall is a right Yes, okay. Thank you. Police continue MR. 2. >> I think the issue I think is is that when I say transparency is is that you never had to sit in a public meeting and answer questions about your qualifications for the board. Correct? I did not. Prior to becoming the ceo of jta, you would never supervised any employees before correct? Incorrect. Tell me. Tell me who you supervised. >> I started in in 1983. The power Engineering division. And then moved into our customer service area. I supervised all week. Your accounts. And moved into strategic partnerships and acquisitions. Ri supervise the staff there. And I work directly with the ceo. Overall strategy. >> Katie, you sent a text to Kurt Wilson. On MAY 14th 2024. Where you said just got another pr on my experience and who reported me. Which was no one. You recall that? No, i don't. Would it surprise you that you sent that text occur? Wilson? And this text? You're saying that there was a public records request tell incurred that there was a public records request for whether you you had experience in terms of supervising who reported to you and you answered that there was no one that was supervisor. But today you're saying that you had supervisory experience and all those other aspects. >> What I'm saying is I believe he's ripped. I was referring to the very last position. I help because I work directly for the ceo and worked with everyone. But I had no direct reports on that last job. >> Okay. So did you respond to the public records requests the outlined all of the experience that you just told us today? I believe so. Can will you be able to produce your response to the public records request? There was another texts. You sent. Again to Kurt Wilson with regard Ben becker story where he was questioning whether or not you met the requirements in the charter for having executive experience to remember that. Not really describe for us what you would consider your executive experience. >> All say that the qualifications. Require 5 years of experience and that I was. That I believe by someone. Here as having met that or the board. At that and the board is charged with hiring. >> Well, in fact, they didn't say that you met the requirement. They said you met the spirit of the requirement right? >> I don't recall that. So I had a text message between you incur Wilson where you said that. >> Juicy said that you met the spirit of the requirement with that surprise. You. I don't recall that text. Why is it that you think that it wasn't opened up to any other applicants? To apply for the ceo position? I can't say. I think that's a question for the board. Did you ever raise it to the board that for transparency sake, it should be opened up to other applicants. Once again, all say that. They could have nominated board members could have nominated anyone else. Well, in fact, board member Humphrey wanted to discuss. Putting you in as interim ceo on the day that MR. Stowe resigned, correct. Could you repeat the question that board member Humphrey? Want to discuss putting Ms Marshall in as the interim ceo on the day that MR. Stowe resigned. I can't recall exactly. I believe she said something to the effect of. >> Isn't a co coo normally put in that role. >> So how quickly did you eliminate the? Coo position? After you were put in place, a ceo. I don't recall. Was it weeks wasn't months, months, I believe, but I'm not certain. And why did you eliminate that position? As I was putting into place. Team. But I thought we could work together and that had the skills and the performance and the mindset to go forward. But even after you eliminated the position, you can't MISS Marshall on the payroll jta correct. I believe you are referring to those consulting agreements. Those that in my opinion. Should not have been done. Because they and in my opinion. They violate Florida Statute Florida State statute to 15, however, I took the advice of counsel. And allowed it. So without getting into what the advice of counsel was because MR. Grant's about jump in. How many of these agreements are that you're aware of? Well, there's no more. I can tell you that there will be no more. I believe. The practice started under Jay Stowe. There are. I can't say for sure how many in more than 2? Yes, sir. More than 10. I don't believe, but I'm not certain. Okay, MR. Can. I have MR. Diamond jumped in place. The CHAIRMAN's How much it during your tenure, how we've been paying executives to either be consultants or just not to work. What do you think that total amount >> I couldn't say. I mean, I'd have to look at the details. There was only 2. That I recall. >> So earlier we had this measure. Here are your hr director. She said that at least 2 executives were kept on the payroll. After they were essentially eliminated and they were making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to do nothing. Under your leadership. How can we be sure as a city seeing these rates go up for the rest of the great parents out there that you aren't paying any more of these folks, hundreds of thousands of dollars to do nothing. >> I will not do it again. I didn't want to do it to begin with. >> Help me out with that, though. You're the boss, as you literally a ceo lake and you didn't think it was legal. You didn't like it you just say no. >> At the time I took the advice of counsel. >> They said it was legally didn't like it. I'm not asking. Council said we're assuming the witness taking advice of counsel. I'm curious why that might MISS Katie No, not on legal grounds, but just because you don't like it. >> They have been done in the past. I have been done in the past and watch others see it. They. They want and it was described to me. As in lieu of possible litigation. >> what I want to get is essentially just an easy way to get rid of senior people so they don't cause a mess after the fact. Is that fair? The county to verbal answer. >> I wouldn't characterize it as that. >> me understand why. Why keep these dummies, folks of 8 million dollars a they getting pensions are getting all this money. Now they're gone and not working. We're still paying them. >> As I said before, I took the advice of counsel. All right. Continue MR. To yield. By council. You mean Ogc? One other chiefs? Have you let go? David Emanuel? Well. Right now, Marshall. Laura, Shep, us. Brad Croll resigned. And I'm not certain I got them And why did you let Laura, Shep, us go. Actually, that was a. Negotiated. So I I I'm not at liberty to discuss an did she complain about? >> Her trick, your treatment of her 2 other other folks. And that was the reason why she was let go. >> Not to my knowledge. Who did you replace her with? That particular? But position was eliminated. Eventually, Jodi Brooks came in and we created a chief administrative officer >> position of chief administrative officer or was it given the Jodi Brooks? I did not. I directly hire Jodi Brooks. And why? Why did you not want to open it up for other applicants. It's my prerogative. To choose the leadership team. I have worked with Jodi. And her knowledge and I knew her and her skills. And I want to join the Brooks. And why did you? Replacing David Emanuel? I will simply performance. Prefer not to discuss details of employees who aren't. But the minute situations just unprofessional don't want to do that. MR. Can I jump in just for second. This is a public utility and I have been saying they're quite a bit over the last few weeks. >> It bothers MAY it when they were positions that opened up, particularly at senior levels, director levels. There's not an open process people that have been there 10 or 15 years, get a chance to apply. Learn from an interview they might get the job. They go through a process. Their interview, they learn from the interview and gain considerable knowledge from that process. If this is a private company. I work for a private company still do for 30 years. What you describe happens all the time. But can you understand the perception that that causes win you're hiring people without going through a process and giving other people a chance. >> I'll just tell you that it is the prerogative of ceo to pick 13 and it always has been and it's been done for Tinley in the past as well. I'm not the first. >> Well, I I I can't. I'm dealing with today. And I would I would encourage the board 2 to take a look at that. Because I think >> it just it just sends a we don't do that over here at the it city Hall. We go through a process. People can apply. And I think particularly in in any entity that's a public like like that's the process should be used, MR. Teal. >> And why? I think you already MAY have already answered this in response to council repentance question. But why was right at the Marshall? Let go. >> Once again. Performance. >> What about Victor Blackshear? She let go. No, sir. It was the demoted. >> I don't recall. >> was his duties reassigned. Was given different duties? >> I can't I can't answer that. And Lil Wayne Young. Wayne, Young. >> Was. >> And j a. For quite some time and eventually. He retired or was was terminated. I don't think it was terminated by Jody. I had nothing to do with that. And what about Pedro Melendez? Pedro? Resigned. So do you have any? People of color as part of your? Senior leadership team. Dr Charles Moreland. And with regard to Dr Moreland. Were you? Did anybody requests that you fire MISTER Or Doctor Moreland? No, Sir. And replacing all of those folks that left. Did you have an open application process for any of those positions? Yes, sir. And which ones? The chief customer service officer. And who which who held that position prior to. Because their replacement as Sheila Pressley. In any of the other ones that you have an open application process. We promoted from within pay, including well, not obviously not diagnosed or die and most are yes, sir. That's correct. And how I was dying. Those selected. That was also a direct appointment. Incur Wilson was hired as a direct appointment as well. Correct. Kurt was already at And yes. When you kept him on as your chief of staff, that was a direct appointment. Yes. You pointed Ricky, Eric stand-in, Rob Zammit Arrow. 2. Fill the position that ran a Marshall had correct. That is correct. We split the system's electric and water. And those direct appointments. Can you see how? Not opening up those positions? Would create a tension amongst the existing staff or some MAY call it adding to a toxic work environment because people were not given an opportunity to be able to apply for those types of jobs. >> As I said, it was my choice and I put them My prerogative and I chose the team members just as people have done in the past other CEOs. And I understand that. But my question was. >> Can you see how that MAY create resentment amongst the existing staff are not even being able to be considered for any of those higher level positions. >> MR. Cho, can I interrupt right there, MR. Dimon wants to jump It's all great. But I think, look, there's a lot of folks in the room and as we've got a lot to do today. So if you don't mind, I'm just going to give us down the field here a little bit. I like to just kind of get a couple of things that I would really like to know about, limits. Let's do a favor for transparency. And people watching online. You very graciously told us that you've got hearing aids and that we provided for you just so everybody knows that we're hearing aids. People are texting me and asked me if you're getting answers from people just for it so that they hear it from you on the record, you're not hearing from anybody for that right? >> COUNCILMAN Diamond, I want to read you a statement that was in my opening sentence. And Mayo, guess management that I chose not to say. And I want to assure COUNCILMAN Diamond. But it isn't. This isn't a two-way communication device. Thank you, sir. >> I always find it so important just to nip some of these things in the bud because I'll hear about it for years. And I'd rather not okay earlier this month earlier this year, there was what I would call very uncomfortable board meeting. It was I think maybe one of the ugliest ga Burmese I've ever seen. It was unpleasant. I think. And that's just my opinion. But I think a lot of something of led to that. I think people would like to know when it comes to this toxic work environment and the management of j kind of like what is leading up to these things. So my first question is, when did you first know that Rick Morales was kind of slated to be the next board chair? >> I can't recall as part of the board. I can't recall a date. >> continued. And was it like in 2026? 2025. >> The process as it happens the same month every year. And I don't recall. >> At some point win, you already knew that MR. Morales was going to be that kind of incoming board chair, assuming the executives it was approved. You guys had a meeting where you convey to really see said to the board that he convey to you that he had done some investigating on his own any of her bad things about your leadership? You know what I'm talking about. >> At the board meeting before the board meeting at some point, he said during that board meeting that he had met with you like weeks prior and that you all had a conversation that he'd gone meet some Chiefs, a j and learn stuff that he did like any want to talk to you about it. You know, I'm talking about. Yes, I do. Okay. When did that meeting happened? You know? >> That meeting happened. On FEBRUARY. The 15th, I believe like that. >> And what MR. Morales tell you. MR. Morales. Texted me on a Sunday evening. Ask if I could come to his office. Some things he wanted to discuss. And did you go to his office? You said the next day, which was a holiday. And I MAY have my dates wrong, sir. So I any idea what this is? He said just some things I want to talk to you about in person. I said 3.30 and he said yes. And how long was the meeting? I couldn't say maybe about an hour are and what MR. Morales convey to you. MR. Morales said. That he was going. He wanted to go in a different direction when he was board chair. And that he had spoken to some people and was visit from the business community and Staff. Like me to step down at the next board meeting. Did he say with the staff? It said that made him feel that way. >> He did not. He didn't share anything except. I I believe the way he put it was I manage up well, but not down well as what he said. But he would give me no details. >> Did he tell you which staff it was? >> Did not. What did you tell him? So this is quite surprising. Have you seen any of these behaviors in MAY before? And he said no. What behaviors are we talking about? Well, treating people poorly. >> And did you agree to resign at that meeting or indicate that you would step down? >> I did not okay. >> Did you ever tell Mr? Morrow has that you would step down? I did not. At some point after that meeting, did you ever go to figure out who the staff was ahead? Talk to MR. Morales. Came out after the next board meeting. What does that mean? >> People were. >> Talking in la's, they said they. There was some discrepancy over what was said at the meeting where they went. They're or he came to them. >> I understand what you're saying. I just want to get back to the question. Did you make any effort to figure out Mr? Morales, to talk to. >> It eventually came out. >> Yeah, I get it. Not trying to trick you here. I get that eventually figured out the current rules and talked to Miles. That's my best. Guess. But did you make any effort you ask anybody you text and image quality about that you asked friends like? Did you talk tomorrow suggested staff to talk MR. O's. >> Before went to meet with MR. Morales, I did tax Kurt and say did anything come up? When you Mr? Morales to page 2 facility. And he said no. So I'm just checking because he's asked for a meeting. Curious what it's about. >> Other than that tax before the meeting with MR. Owens and kind of just finding out after the fact you make any effort to find out who had spoken MR. Morales about you. >> We talked about it a meeting. Who's we? The entire leadership team. And you ask them, did you speak to Us. Actually some of them came forward. Did you ask them now if they spoke to Mr? Morales. We talked about it in the meeting. Yeah, I get it. Really easy question. Did you ask or did you just get someone else? Bring it up first. I don't recall. Okay. Just so it's clear you I've got 14 so far. I don't recalls. I don't remember is and I can't say and it is only about 30 minutes into the U.S. So I'm gonna keep asking. But what's going to happen is we're going to get granular Grammer's. We get answers. And it's just such an unfortunate way to use everybody's time. We're just right. This isn't criminal. We're just trying to get out what's going on over there. Did you at any point talked to Kurt Wilson after a meeting with MISTER Morales about your meeting with MR. Morris. I don't believe I did okay at some point after meeting with MR. Morales, did you find out that Kurt Wilson spoke to MISTER Morales about you? I had assumed it. About when did you assume that that was true? Probably right after right after at some point you decided to eliminate Kerr Wilson's position. When was that? And decided not to have a chief of staff. >> And was looking for another opportunity for MISTER Wilson. >> Ok, when did you make the decision to get rid position? >> Months ago, months before. >> And when did you finally icing? You have to like, submit paperwork or tell Ms Mosher someone that that position doesn't exist. Is that right? >> We did not make any final plans. We were discussion. >> Does the chief of staff position exist today? No, it does When was it eliminated? It was eliminated when MR. Wilson. Did he resign or is he fired? He left. This is the easy flush out. I did not fire MR. Wilson, okay. Was the position eliminated before he left or after a lot after okay. The meeting at MISTER MR. Morales on FEBRUARY, 15th or 16th somewhere in there. And then there's a FEBRUARY 24th board mean that we're discussing right? >> Yes, sir. Okay. So there's about a little less than 10 days between those 2 meetings. How many board meeting members did you meet with or talk on the phone with? After your meeting with MR. Morales and that meeting. >> All of them, all of them. >> Who do you speak to? First to remember? My board chair? >> And how did that meeting go? What was said? >> I called him and explained what had happened. And what did he say? It was pretty upset. And then who do you talk to? I don't remember the order, but there are. But any talk to all of them. Did you ever speak to Mr? Marles again before that meeting? When Whalen? Let me think. I text home. What did you text them? I texted him. Don't call factor something to that effect. What was that about? When I left, he said he was going to call fact color to say about when he would need to do. We understand that? I'm not getting much contacts. To do. What like? What did you understand to mean about calling Mr? Packer, it was looking into a resignation or how to do something. I wasn't quite sure you as you guys were talking about his exit from Okay. All right. I seen that chatted with the new board Chair, MR. Warner's. Alright. What did you say to him? The same? But I've been asked to resign, but MR. Morrow us. Yes, okay. And then What was the response? Surprised? Supported you? I don't recall that specifically. I think the board members were just in shock. That one board member. We do something like that. Without speaking to other board members. Yeah, I'm tracking, but my question I guess when you're speaking, Mr or and or did at some point you being retained, has it not leaving a ceo, get discussed. It's kind of blur one, but we talked about. I assume you talk to MR. Baker also correct. Yes. Did say that he supported you saying is j a c o? Again, surprise. That a board member would do something like that. Again, that was my question, though. Did he say that he would support you? Staying is Jay a ceo? I can't recall exactly, but probably okay. And then you eventually spoke to all the board members. Did you tell them that the other board members are in support of you saying as jta ceo? >> No, sir, you didn't tell them that you were talking the other ones. >> Well, they MAY have summed up because I'm required to do that. Well, not require, but it's best practice to do that. At some point. >> There's an executive slate, right? That's got the upcoming vote for the next board meeting with chair and vice chairs are right. And at some point the slate was withdrawn from the board men, the board agenda for that 24th meeting is not right. And you are the person who said that needs to get pulled is not right. >> No, sir, I don't have that authority. The board chair since the agenda to the board chair, pull it. And did you talk to the board chair about pulling that slate? I don't recall. You know, remember. That's literally the leadership of ga is going to be changed. >> And you don't remember having discussion about i don't okay. How did the board chair To pull the slate? >> That was his decision. And you would have to ask him. >> You never just so it's absolutely clear. You never talked to any member of the board about changing the slate. >> I don't recall. Crazy time. And I jump in for sports just for a second. MR. Morales indicated. And I think this is fairly public that you agreed to resign and then. Called him back. After you had spoken to your financial adviser, pension person or some combination of that, is that correct? >> I don't recall calling MR. Morales. That's not what I said. Please repeat the question. I said MISTER Morales has. Commented publicly to my knowledge. That you agreed to resign. Initially. Either text him. I think you said you text him and said don't go Tocci see because I think is his intent was un indicated you are going to resign. He was going to go to ogc to make the arrangements. >> Then I I I don't I have not seen the tax, but it's been reported that you responded with look, don't do anything. Let me speak to my financial adviser, pension person, that kind of thing. Is that correct? That is that is. And then. After speaking to that person, you changed your mind. Is that is that a fair characterization? No, sir. >> I not going to resign. >> Okay. But you commented to him initially that you were. >> I never definitively said I was going to resign. He wanted me to resign at the next board meeting which was on Tuesday. We met on Monday. >> Go ahead, MR. Diamond. Okay. I feel like we're going around in circles. Look at some of the unknown numbers. I don't recalls. So just let's even get a straight answer to us. >> I'm sorry. Have to This cave is testifying under oath and so I don't recall is the correct answer if it's truthful. And so we shouldn't be. >> Intimating that. >> that's Not ix and x. That exactly I would say are sitting next to my client 100%. She's the ceo of jta. This is the most critical things happening. Jane, 6 years. You think you remember the most important stuff that's going on. >> And council disturbing to me, I'm not an attorney, but we waited 3 weeks for preparation and everything else. In order to get ms kv here and I'm under the assumption when she does come with with all this preparation time that we're going to get a lot of straight answers. Frustrated about what MISTER Dimon is saying as well. She says she's taken the of. >> I got it. Okay. So through the charity, ms kb. If you never told MISTER Morales definitively, as you say that you are going to resign. What did you tell him about resignation? >> But I could not resign. Because it would hurt you financially or no. I got to stay. Okay. And as you tell them anything else other than that resigning. At some point, you've heard these allegations of a toxic work j a correct. Yes. When was the first time you heard about these things? >> When MISTER Kevin Carrico, council chair Carrico said it. >> The news article that came out. No, believe it was FEBRUARY. The 19th Thursday after the Monday that MR. Morales had asked me to resign. >> So how did you find out then? MR. Carrico and forgive me Council Chair Carrico. He told directly. No, he had a he was on tv and had a >> yes. Mean, like in the news you found on Okay, sir. I promise you. These are these are tricky you found out the news. What have you done since then to investigate whether or not there are problems at j a toxic leadership or of racism. >> I went to hr and asked them how they had any complaints. That's what you mean. Is that all you did? >> And at some point you all have agreed to do when it survey of your employees. That was agreed to do months ago. Is that right? >> We've been doing these surveys for decades since the last 9 days since the 90's, the late 90's engagement surveys are surveys that you do. To engage your employees to help plan for the future to get them involved in the business and to hear their opinions. And you take those surveys and develop action plans to go forward to improve in areas where you need to improve. No, I don't like Harden once very common in large companies. Really all companies. So we have been planning this for. Probably since SEPTEMBER OCTOBER, looking into it. But and going out to market to get a vendor to do it NOVEMBER. >> That I think we can all agree. Surveys are great. Engaging employees is wonderful. So we've got some early results on this one. >> 47% of employees surveyed said they feel well informed about important decisions, a j 18% below similar utilities. 49% said they have confidence in Jay's chiefs. 23% below comparable utilities. 46% said directors of the peas and chief understand what is really happening. A j 20% below comparable utilities. Then there's a bunch of really nice ones where people are saying they love their job. They love helping Jacksonville through hurricanes. Lovely. I think that that stuff is great. But there's a there's a pig pretty big gap. 20 points from comparable. Utilities where that seems jta employees don't have as much faith in senior leadership. How much of that do you take? Responsibility for? >> I think the entire utility takes responsibility for it and they're different in different areas. So that's the overall. When when I came into j. It was a work from where you work. Best policy. So people did not have to come to the office employees that were. Not come to the office. So I think that cause some. Some issues and probably influence the survey. And I don't want to discount what employee said. I'm happy, but they were open and honest and felt comfortable enough to express their opinions. And I'll take the most serious. We all do. >> Okay. So how much of the 20% is because the work from home policy was changed versus actual problems with leadership? I couldn't say okay. Have you heard the allegations that there's a political? That and then it's politically influenced? As part of a toxic work culture. Did you hear that there is actual quote from your own survey to employees? I don't trust the board or Vicki. We're at this point. Anyone at City Hall jta isn't a political tool. It's a community service. Have you heard that quote? I think I read it. What is your sense of political influence creating a toxic work culture at j. >> I am not sure why that why that individual wrote that. So I can answer them. >> Do you feel that political j a's affecting the toxic culture, the culture in any way? >> I never bring politics and never have. Me personally. I'm speaking for me personally. I've never volunteered for a political campaign. I'm never expressed my political views. So I don't know why that comments there. And I'm not sure directed towards me. >> Okay. After a you had a press conference here at City Hall. Is that right? I didn't have a press conference. Did you attend a press conference at City Hall? I did. The mayor was there. She was mayor supported you and saying in this role publicly, correct. Yes, okay. The board chair is there. Yes, okay. Is the mayor ever try to influence your decisions at j? As mayor ever asked you to not hire any contractor or not, use any contract. As Mike Weinstein ever try to influence the decision of years, a j. As Mike Weinstein ever characterized any contract in any way to you in relation to j. >> COUNCILMAN, how is this related to the charge and the topics on this Katie subpoena. >> If you look at the 6 charge is to get talks up, our culture. Their own surveys are saying that part of the toxic work culture is political influence. I'm trying to determine if political influence is affecting the culture, j. I want to know if the chief administrative officer is contributing to that. Katie can answer the question, whether it's part of the charge or not, why would you not want to answer that question? What we had to hide. >> I have nothing to hide. Any answer. The question has Mike Weinstein ever told you to hire or not hire anyone has yet influence the contract? >> Or the not using of a contract. Mike Weinstein never talked to me about whether to use or not use a contract. No one city hall he's ever talk to you about about contract. >> COUNCILMAN. Ballard contract was not part of the subjects listed in this Katie subpoena. She's here prepared to testify about the subject subjects that were noticed. And she's willing to do that. Now contract. Isn't part of the charge and was unfairly noticed is the subject of her subpoena. It's a very simple question. Counselor. It's part of the toxic culture that their own survey is coming back and feeding. >> Counsel, I'm going allow the questioning. I think it's relevant. I I ruled the other way last time. But I think this time it's very relevant to the discussion. >> Be recognized. Yes, MISTER Fact. This is in addition to on a never know these days beyond being the on the charge. Question the other issue is this particular contract is the subject of a criminal investigation. The statewide prosecutor and the state attorney. The agency does not know if it is a subject. We do not know who is the subject of this. So this is an extremely sensitive area with potential criminal liability to the agency and 2. Individuals. If I might respond. First of all, both those agencies have said we can continue at this investigation. >> escape. He wants to take the 5th. She's walking to do it. >> And into MR. Diamond through the chair. I know the state attorney has mentioned that the statewide prosecutor, I have not seen any comment from the statewide price spoken to him personally. He said, go ahead. I I have spoken to In addition. This is beyond MISS Katie. This is the agency itself which has received the subpoenas, which is under a criminal investigation. So not only is the Ballard not specifically mentioned if a vendor contract, it's part of a toxic work culture. Then everything as part of a toxic work culture in which point there is no purpose to a charge memo. The charge memo specifically states. That it's related to allegations regarding racism and toxic workplace culture. But there's another factor are related to you're working so hard for the mayor. Again, you're always working for the mayor. I get what what out one answer answer the question. It's a simple question. Please. MISTER Carlo Chance you're not recognized and I wish you quit. You're banging and everything. >> I told you when I would recognize him. Decorum decor must calendar. You want to have a big thing and get all mad. >> MISTER D# # Euless professional. There are rules. There are rules, MR. PRESIDENT Carlo Chi. So on the put. On the point of whether this is related to the culture, this has nothing to do with the workplace culture at j. If this is part of the workplace culture every vendor contract is subject to MISS Michigan, To discuss, read the most survey about culture saying it's become political. That's their own survey. The employees have made this about the toxic culture company. There literally telling you. And it's such an easy question. Have they been influencing contracts, a j yes or no. It's so easy. Yeah. And that's beyond the charge is not to revise the chart. I used hearing water. Happy to revise the charts, but I believe it's beyond the bounds of the charge. Gonna go in for a couple for a few minutes and I'll go back to you, MR. Teal and then we'll see if MISTER Pittman. >> When you want to go after me. I want to talk about the toxic culture for a minute because it's I think it's been mischaracterized in terms of this committee. After the that FEBRUARY 17th 20th board meeting when when PRESIDENT Carrico and there was a a mention, if there were concerns about the ceo culture, whatever you could go to hr or you could go to inspector general or you could go to the Human Rights Commission. Those are the 3 areas that were mentioned at that board meeting. PRESIDENT Carrico soon thereafter talked about setting up a special committee. I went to the inspector general before accepting this role. He mentioned the capacity issue that I think we all want to get to the bottom of. He had had several employees come to him and felt like looking into the culture je on. Want to characterize his exact words was was an appropriate thing to take a look at. The PRESIDENT Included in this charge. I would not gotten involved if I'd I did not think that it needed to be looked into. And that it's characterized by the media very often. That's why I got involved. And this. Let me talk about the capacity fee. Think for a minute. When did you first learned there was a capacity fee issue? MISS Katie? >> Probably. 2024 late 2024. >> I'd heard that you are that you were made aware of it when you first pick. That is that when you first became the ceo. Around that time. >> I knew it was an issue. I didn't know the details of the issue. Okay. >> But you never took it to the board. Even when you became the ceo. >> It was a problem that was being worked on. There was no reason to take it to the board. Okay. We work on problems all day every day. >> I understand. But a problem that potentially goes back 20 or 30 years. And at that point, I hear the auditors now telling us around. 25 me and I've heard, you know, prior to that 2500 million dollars, it's interesting that I've had phone calls over the last week or 2 from people saying it's a 2 billion dollar company. You know, 25 3000 million dollars is is is not that significant to put all this time and effort into capacity face. I responded to that by saying God, if if Wal-Mart felt that way, they would let people steal a portion of the rim. And Tory and that just the cost doing business or Walgreen or anybody in my industry. People working in a pharmacy just take some drugs home. That's why we have cameras and everything else too. Prevent. Things like that from happening. I think you should have brought it to the board soon as you learned about it. And made them aware of the issue that you were looking into it to try to get to the bottom of it. But that's that's my opinion. And on the combined cycle, I am so pleased to hear that you will be streaming committee meetings and workshops in the future. My understanding it will stop when you became ceo and Jay used to do all the time and I'm glad to hear that you're restarting that the public deserves to sit at home and see these meetings. As a public utility. Never should have been stopped. In regard of the combined cycle, what disturbs MAY? It's a 1.5 billion dollar project. And yet the discussion at the board level was about 15 minutes because I went back and looked at it and have a transcript it. And my understanding is the questions that have come up about. The approvals of the various agencies. Was all handled one-on-one with the board members and what's not. Discussed at in a in a workshop where the public could understand the pros and cons of this. Can you respond to that? >> Serve there were multiple times. We talked about the combined cycle with the Capital Projects Committee and the board. And one-on-one hours and hours. With staff that was working on that project. None of screamed. I can say that some of the board meeting the board meetings are always streamed. >> They aren't the only recollection I have of of this being discussed at the board level was when it was approved. That's disturbing to me. It would be like us approving are 2 billion dollar budget with without going through budget hearings in the public and all those types of things. I think Jay ea is different from our other authorities. Were all of this speech to be in the public. Where the public can understand it and watch it. From wherever they are. And not just recorded or minutes produced. I feel very strongly about that. I'm glad making changes because I think those changes will be positive for the citizens of Jacks of Jacksonville. Pavement. Please go ahead. As Katie. I do have a few questions in. >> I'll say it again. The reason why on this committee is because the support for the employees that reached out. >> And >> I didn't know if he knew of some of the issues that they were concerned about. The culture of the departments. And then I guess my first question to you before you bought new staff in. Did you do an assessment of your leadership team before you brought the new individuals and and afterwards, can you share any information to me about that? >> And you explain to me what you mean by assessment. Please. >> Well, one. There, we knew people broadening in. And people who were currently working and the department, one of opportunity for mobility. And unfortunately they did not get a knot. They did not get an interview. Or there were questions regarding. Certain areas at and in terms of capacity. >> That was in need it. They needed more help. And that was not given to them. And so I guess my concern. Is they did not get an opportunity. They share what a frustrating culture was like. And in some of the divisions. And I just want to know if you had an opportunity to do an assessment, what you need it. I know you mentioned earlier in your conversation that you could hire anybody that you want it to but before. But I'm just saying before that, did you get an opportunity to assess areas? In your departments to see if they were interested and openings that you had coming up. >> As I said before, I direct appointed. And I didn't. I did not go down deep in the organization. Okay. Will tell you, MISS Pittman when you read those letters I believe when Diane Moser was here, I immediately went gc and said I want this looked into okay immediately. Okay. And once once you looked into that. Was there anything done? Because at that time Mosher was in place right? Since point. MISS Missus, Mosher she was in place. Does she do a deep dive? What was needed in the departments? We're currently during a workforce analysis across the whole j. To see if we have enough people are too many people in certain areas that's going to take quite some time. So that is going on right now. Okay. But I guess I'm asking specifically because there issues before I guess you've got to and Tara says, did you do or did you have Ms Mosher do a deep dive and those departments? That needed help and need it resources that did not get it. I would not have known about that. And the Chiefs manage their own areas. I did not. I don't know. Details of that at all. Okay. Did Ms Mosher ever come to you and tell you that there were issues and in the departments? Were you aware of for for months? These issues were going on recently. Yes, not months. How how recently? You say you found out about some of the issues when there was a press conference, correct? Did you know before the press conference that these issues were going on? I don't see the connection there. I'm sorry. I'm getting a little disappointed because I understood that there were issues that were brought to Missus, Mosher. Are you telling me those issues that the employees were concerned about? They never bottom to you. You didn't know anything about what was going on. Recently. Yes. Before recently, you didn't know anything that was going on. Not in detail. I did not. And are all your departments In terms of staff and each of those areas. Hey, well, those areas up. Stuff with the number employees at that. They need to work to do the work. That is up to MISS Most or to his side. I want to ask the question again, you mentioned that you did not know U.S. Marshals interest it. The position. Can you tell me why? She was she retire, but she really didn't want to retire. Did you know that? She didn't retire? Position was eliminated. And what to do a limb in a deposition. I answered the question before answer it again. Due to performance. My decision on who was going to be on the leadership team. My leadership team and how long was Ms? Marshall there? Work for How does she work? You know, I I. Want to say 3 or 4 years during that time. 34 years she had that injury a prior. Right. And and I want to share Jay, before I do not know. Were you ever in a meeting and you said mate, Je a great again. I know you've heard this before, but did you know that? Because you said that. It was hurtful to some of the African American. Staff that was in that meeting. I don't recall a meeting saying you don't know me. I MAY have. I don't recall it at all. >> And I don't see how that would be. >> It's just a just sensitivity. >> And work in with African-Americans. >> And I'm just asking because those with some of the questions that individuals were concerned about and how staff will be in treating African-Americans were being treated and the departments. But if you don't know about what's going kind of taken back a little bit because a lot of had several people, even folks that have left Jay to just talk about the environment, the work environment. MISTER Brad Cole. >> This is that his last name Cole Kroll. Yes. Oh, yes. Did he retire or resign? What was his situation? It took another job, took another job and he didn't want to be vested before was it. Was there any it ever any conversation about him being invested. You know, Rick, no, ma'am. If you had an opportunity to do it all all over again. Would you do something different? With respect to? The staff? He would do the same thing. Us ma'am. Would you change anything now that, you know, some of the issues in the cultural experiences. Would you have more conversation? Not only which a leadership team, but the lair below MISS Mosher. Yes and no repeat the question. If you had an opportunity to dive deeper to talk to the What was needed or an opportunity for a pull up or mobility. Would you do it? Yes or no. I wouldn't change time. You would not change coming. I have another question Ms Ross. Understand that you. Did not work. Didn't want to work with Ms Ross anymore is can you? Can you share why? I'm not sure why you're asking matter where you go. I will tell you why. I'm asking that when you asked question, you decide that you did not want to work witnesses Ross anymore. I think there were conflicts. There are conflicts. Can you just share maybe share about what some of the conflicts were? Response time? Communications. Communications about way. Lawsuits. Any litigation, our stuff going on in her area. General counsel. >> I feel like. Based on information. That I've received. I didn't go out and ask. Staff contact me. Share with me about. The coach or issues. Of course, I share with that PRESIDENT And a lot of them were afraid to talk because they felt like they were going to be retaliated against. And so with you being the ceo and hiring your leadership team that those individuals and speak in particularly of Ms Mosher. Would assist. And I find it hard to believe that you don't know. You didn't know any issues were happening those areas. I was told basically win individuals. There was one individuals that was walked out who was African-American, the other? Employees that worked. They've never been. They've never been walked out. So that was the issue. I'm just sharing. I don't know. I don't work to share with you. Some of the issues that was a concern. And so I was just, you know, I'm just concerned most of the answers that I today, it's basically you couldn't recall. And so I just wanted to bring those issues up. You to see if you were aware of them. And our last meeting, you heard that most of the employees that they were reprimanded about something is that they would go. To MR. Moreland. And Diane said she's only seen they wanted to people, but the rest of the employees would go to h# # . Were you aware that as well? I'm not sure what you're referring to. I'm finished. Okay. But let me mention PRESIDENT Elect Howland join us a few minutes ago and I forgot. >> To do that. MR. Teal go back to MR. Diamond after you. MR. Chair. >> He's giving you testified that you found out about the capacity fees issue. And you said late 2024 the right. >> Somewhere around there. I'm looking at a tax that he sent to even earlier. My I was aware there was an issue. I didn't know the details. Okay. It was aware that there was an issue for. So how were you made aware that there was an issue? Just in general that discussed and there was a team looking at it. And what was the issue that you were made aware of? What did you understand the issue to be? >> But there was a discussion on a discrepancy. With Mayo Clinic on the additional capacity fees. >> And what was your understanding as to what your staff was doing to review that situation? >> I wasn't involved in the details. But I know that they were looking at additional capacity fees and it was very complicated. And they have been looking into it for quite some time years. >> And did you ever become involved in the details of it? >> Not until SEPTEMBER. Fact, I think I was sent some things on and on. I lie. Tension agreement. Because recovery >> And that was SEPTEMBER 5th of 2025. >> know, I had that earlier. I was aware of the issue and and we discussed it on No peripheral no issues on updates. When I would meet with people. But I was not involved in the details. That was some problem that a group of people looking into in trying to saw. >> guess my question was, when did I guess we'll be back up. Did you become involved in the details of it? >> SEPTEMBER. We held a meeting, I was presented with demand letter of some number what year 25. So prior SEPTEMBER 5th of 2025, the demand letter was given a think that 3rd, I'm not I'm not clear in the day. Okay. And you talk about the demand letter juicy prepared to try and recover the back capacity fees that by Mayo Clinic. >> So when you were brought up to speed, I guess in terms of that capacity, the demand letter. >> Were you educated in terms of of the complexities that were involved in the calculating of those capacity fees. >> I knew that then. Very difficult. I know It was. Difficult many ways because of the lack of because of the discrepancy with Mayo Clinic thinking that they have the right to 1.1 million gallons. They. And bay. And we disagree with that. >> In you disagreed with it because otc and other lawyers working on behalf of ga. Researched it. And we're advising that. Mayo Clinic was incorrect. Is that right? >> struck MS. Kv not to answer questions that reveal verbal advice that was given. By her attorneys. If you're talking about any written documents. She can comment on the I am talking about written documents. And so as Katy, you're aware of, you said the demand letter, right? That was prepared. And I think the Daytona SEPTEMBER 3rd. >> Of 2025. And that was prepared by rule. The signature on it is Regina Ross. You familiar with that letter? Yes. And that letter details why? Legally jta doesn't agree with Mayo. Clinic's. Position in terms of whether or not they the capacity fees. Is that right? >> I have to read the letter again. Think we disagreed on the assertion about cost recovery. The costs recovery agreement. But I have to read Well, let get to the end. Says in the conclusion. When considered in the context of the fees and charges that were assessed at the time of the execution. The agreement is best understood to exempt mail from paying special fees and charges for water and or sewer service like cost recovery fees. But not the type of ordinary fees. >> And charges normally assessed throughout the system like capacity charges. Further a broad exemption from such fees and charges would not be consistent with the stated purpose of the agreement or the relatively limit limited consideration exchange in support thereof doesn't say that legal conclusion is that. Yes, some things were exempted but not capac