Special Investigatory Committee on JEA

He Good afternoon and welcome to the special committee. Investigative Committee on jta. Let's start with introductions to my far left. >> Calling him see Council research. Very Plus office of General counsel from Parks counselor's office, Kim Taylor Council auditor. Until Council Legislative Council. Good afternoon in District 13, the beaches. Ron Salem group, 2 at large, Tim Carrico City Council district 4. Welcome, MR. PRESIDENT, glad to have you here. >> Councilmember Pittman will be here momentarily. So let's just start going through the agenda and on the expanded role of the sick. The committee received. Here's MISTER Pittman. The committee received a memo from council PRESIDENT Carrico and has asked us to look at the combined cycle. As well as the impact of the combined cycle on Je a's annual contribution to the city and je ace financial stability and outlook causing the need to increase fertility rates for jta customers. >> I have some concern just about the timing of of all this and maybe tried to set up some additional meetings, number one, and number 2 received a e-mail from general counsel. Fact Lair just a little while ago on this subject. MR. To would you like to comment on his e-mail or help us understand the issues there? >> Sure. Through the chair, the committee. So the male was related to a nondisclosure agreement. The jta entered into with a bitter or a potential bidder, I guess, on project and it's called ge Vernova Operations, llc. And part of that is a guess. There's some confidential information that part of that discussion or negotiations for the contract. And the concern that Mr Factor raised was that through this proceeding, they inadvertently disclose some information or that's that's covered by the nondisclosure agreement. I did want to point out, though, that is first of all, there's valid concern. But the the non disclosure agreement actually has a provision in it that talks about compelled disco, disclosure of confidential information. So it's not to say that they can't this proceeding in my opinion fall into that category of compelled. If that did come out. But what I would advise the committee is >> Go through your your analysis in terms of the expanded charge. See it first. Well, you probably haven't had it long enough to really have mapped out fully exactly what areas you want to get into, but leave it up to jta to say, you know, during that testimony that this is something that we want to assert the privilege on the if the committee does desired, feels like it does need that information. First of I don't think you would based upon what what's covered by this. But if there is that there's a method to be able to handle that situation that's embedded in the nba itself. So I don't think it should hamper you as far as your exploration of the expanded charge that you've been given. I think can feel that it can. It can assert that privilege just like we dealt with with the Regina raw situation. And then man in the given instance where it is asserted, if you feel like you do need to explore it more than there's path forward, I think that we could cover if and when we need to. And MR. Factors here as well in case we want to pull him up. If we need to. >> Yeah, I mean, look, I read the nda, obviously haven't read the contract that's covered by the India, its 800 pages. And I just got that memo about 30 minutes ago. But from my point of view, this is a good, many Arbor because the stuff that is covered by da's very narrow. The stuff that we need to do is high and policy figure out is the city in a bad spot. If we happen to get down into one of those niches where it MAY cover. Not only as Jason says, can we have MR. 5, they're going act or someone from jta can assert the privilege that that's a big deal either. But it's not like we're in trial here. It's not like this is going 10,000 miles an hour. We can't just say time out. Let's figure this out. Let's put this issue aside. Just make sure that we don't get j any bad spots. At the same time, we can do our our duty to the citizens because they are worried about this. So this doesn't get many are permit. I'm glad that we're being thoughtful. Thank It seems to MAY that the first thing we need is an exploration combined cycle. What it entails. Why do we get into it? >> What was the analysis of to pursue this? And that ought to be the opening meeting on this subject. Do you agree a counselor Dimer counselor Pittman? The reason I mentioned it at our last meeting, I don't think this is any mistreat anybody is that, you know, plant Vogtle left us with this hangover, which, you know, maybe Vogel is a great deal today. Maybe it's not. But since we had a huge decision that was made. >> And now we're hearing from employees at that maybe this wasn't the best decision that there might issues of pse. There might be issues down. The road is just thought let's just get all the cars out on the table on this in a very general kind of way. And then we can figure out if there's stuff that we need to sharpen on in particular. I think the question is how does this relate with psc and I do think that we need to. Get some sort assurance from them that this is gonna be a problem is it is it's a massive problem, right? That's huge. For those. It jt a that MAY be listening back at headquarters. Hopefully you can identify someone from the staff that could come before us give us a. >> a basic understanding of combined cycle at a future meeting, whoever that I would ask jta to identify who that person might be to answer all those types of questions. And councilmember Dimon and and Pittman. It seems like that we might need to meet. In addition to these every other Mondays. And is there is there a time? That would be better for you all. But you can kind of throw out there COUNCILMAN Dimon, I mean, I always have Mondays and Tuesdays kind of like earmarked for council business. >> So if it's possible to wedge it in to Monday or Tuesday, I'm sure I can make it work. If I don't mind getting early or whatever, if that's possible. So you're suggesting we do something like it. 10:00am today and then take a break for lunch and come back in the afternoon. >> Councilmember Pittman, how does that sound to you? Okay. I think the room is readily available before this. Is it not? Well, why don't we do this? Let's schedule 2 weeks from today at 10:00am a combined cycle. Seminar for lack of a better term on on what it entails. The decisions while ran it. Those kinds of things and of jta. If they can help. It doesn't have to go for 2 hours by any means. But at least we a lot to hours. Take a break for lunch and then come back at 1 o'clock with with the testimony of Jodi Brooks and Regina Ross. And then will continue that pattern as we as we need to. Update on the employee survey. Mr. Till you have anything else. >> Thank you, MR. Chair to chair the committee. So it will or where it went through committees last week. And I think it was amended to remove the emergency language. So it's going to go through a normal council cycle. And so and it should come out of council of barring any hiccups on at the MAY 12th meeting. And so I did communicate that with a representative from the company. And so he's ready, willing able to to move forward soon as we're ready for him. >> So it is in committee next week is in committee next week. Ok, I would just and that's in rules and finances. Our call >> on both it any support my colleagues can can come bring to that would be helpful. So. What will take care capacity fee update? MR. Taylor. >> Yes, or through the chair to the committee, we have continued with multiple meetings with staff were met with over 13 people because they have a project team that is working all of this. So staff has tried to touch base with each of those people that are involved in that trying to determine what they've identified as problems with the additional capacity fees, what they're doing to address it keep in mind, I do want to mention that for the baseline calculation, our capacity there are over 25,000 business accounts that they have been going through over the past year and have kind of near that down to want to say about 45 100. Is that correct, Brian, that we where they really intensely had to look at. So they are going through that process, any data that they get in. They are they are putting things into their system now that will. That's the first issue is what was that initial capacity? Because some MAY have overpaid initially or bought more capacity in or things like that. And there's like I mentioned before old agreements, things like that. So that baseline is very important to then use to determine what additional capacity MAY be. So as they are getting going through verifying data for that initial capacity fee, we will have to verify that information. We will not just be taking information that j a is getting. So we will verify that information. That's one of the things is that baseline capacity. And then looking at the usage, we will be looking at that for additional capacity they are pulling those that have an actual usage over, you know, that certain market focusing on certain meter sizes. So they have been doing that is the team to say what can we flag keep in mind, the tariff has some interpretations that they're also sorting out to make sure that they are fair and consistent with all of their customers, for example, that it MAY not just be the 20% that MAY be a flag that they want to identify. But there also, for example, in the tariff additions to commercial or industrial MAY on its own district trigger in additional capacity fee. So they have to sort through to make sure the biggest thing. And you've seen that with that outside legal counsel is anything they implement. It needs to be consistent through their various customers. So there are nuances. And as they encounter them, that that has the implement things for the additional capacity fee. They want to make sure that they're going to be consistent. I do want to mention to theirs. There's various agreements. There are some exemptions and some of those agreements so that can affect the calculation jta is is discussing a statute of limitations internally and with Ogc as well. Our plan is to still go back as far as we can invalidating because even if it can't be collected just to maybe get an overall impact or range as far back as we can potentially go on that. But that is one of the things that that MAY from their standpoint impact how far they can go back to customers and what they do going forward and how they implement again. Consistency is the big thing that they've got to make sure that they're doing with each of the customers. So our next steps once we get, we are, you know, having to learn their system, we will pull data ourselves starting to work. Hopefully we one last meeting scheduled at this point with Brooks tomorrow, just to kind of go through everything and make sure we have a good understanding and then begin pulling some of the data that they have to where we can hopefully begin all the calculations. Once we know that they have. Some date in the system that we can off MR. Parks, did you want to add anything else think that's it, MR. CHAIRMAN. MR. Di I have some comments. I'll go to you first. >> threw the chair. That I guess my only question was really like when you think that you'll have your head around enough to give us some sense of like how much money wasn't charged. >> The issue being. >> It was set up here that it was immaterial to like bondholders. But I mean, if we're alike over 10 million dollars, that's like material to taxpayers and ratepayers. When you think you'll be able to get to that, you know, some sense of the end of that rainbow. >> Threw the chair to Councilmember Diamond. I wish I had a good answer for you at this point. Until we get into the data and various old agreements and and where there MAY be exemptions on some knowing just at this point, can't give you a good answer. Unfortunately. >> Fair enough. And through the chair, who's helping you understand that kind of legal side. So if you just look at like Mayo, there's it goes way back with all these different letter agreements and all the stuff helping guide you through that piece of the puzzle to figure out, you know, actually no charge or is it like accordance to the contract? >> Through the chair to Councilmember Diamond, MR. Fact MR. Ryan goal to this point and obviously will be losing him. But MR. Factor has been the one that we've met with Thank you. >> This time, I think it's extremely important that you go back as far as you can. And if there is a statue of limitations that the general counsel or office of General Counsel wants to put in place, think the committee needs to understand why that is. And what is that statue of limitations? Because I want to make sure we're we're attempting to collect as much as we can. That's question number one are common. Number question number 2 is it is, is it your opinion that all use the expression has the bleeding been stopped? >> Are we now looking at all these customers? >> As they potentially go over their original capacity fee and putting in place a way of catching it implementing a second capacity fee of some sort for for all those business customers that are involved. Mrs threw the chair to the committee >> they really have to get to the baseline piece because you if you can't necessarily start charging people for going over until you unsure what the baseline is for everybody and that you're treating everybody going to be equally and everything else like that. Based on the part of the tariffs are coming from. So. I don't want to say that they're doing that piece yet that they are. Looking at all of the different the 25,000 plus to make sure to go through end validating that data currently. They're also starting to look at some of the consumption stuff. But there there's different like Kim mentioned, there's different things they have to kind of work through and you kind of have to work through some of those before you start sending I before you decide whether or not there's a bill because if you make this decision here, you get to like another kind of unique. And then it's all you're treating people differently. So that that kind of got to solve the overall problem before him. But they have put in place is better tracking of what people are doing and that's actually been in place for several years now, when people are paying for a capacity fee of tracking that in the system. I mean, when we're talking about stuff in the 70's 80's and 90's, as you can imagine, that's on a piece of paper sometime. Mean like of just what was done in the past and how that got brought into systems is one of the big problems that they are working through. So but they're in a much better spot kind of going forward with some of this, too. Hopefully once this is up and running it, it'll be a very simple process for them to implement and put in place. >> That's where a diamond you're recognized. You through the charity said session limitations. He caught my attention here. Help me out. What do we care about? The statute limitations right now? I mean, we're not at, you know. What does it matter if we if we fail to charge somebody and therefore the city of Jacksonville and ga has less money. This has nothing to do customers. What is a special invitation sent to do with this? >> Threw the chair to Councilmember Diamond. It MAY impact what they can charge back to a customer. So whether they make decisions on, let's move forward from this point. And we forgive Pastor, whatever they've got away. They've got to be consistent. But the point had been raised that they MAY not be able to go back. Let's say they do realize that 10 years ago a customer was not charged properly for additional capacity. They MAY not have that ability to go back that I can them. So that's where the time frame. And I'm not saying that they've there's been a decision made. That was just a point that was brought up to us to keep in mind, we're trying to just isn't of that, but not for our calculation. We would like to be able to just go back in time. However, far back we can go with guard lists of. The impact of that. Yeah, I'm with the chair on this one. Like, yeah, it would be helpful to know what are cut off is where we can't go and get the money. >> But I still care about much money we lost if we didn't do this right. All right. Thank you. Councilmember pavement. So I thank you so for give an explanation. >> But again, I'm always about fairness and equity and making sure that we have engagement. From the residence and I know we've decided to, you know, make increases. Have we done any surveys with the residents regarding increases? As a Just curious now. >> The chair to COUNCILWOMAN Pittman. That's going to hit on more the base rates for your residential customers. I think is your that's what they talked about at their workshop. I'm not sure and have to talk to to see. Don't believe typically in a new the general I believe is here as well. I don't believe they typically send out surveys. They have that discussion at their workshops and have financial presentations as to why the rate increases are needed in such. But I'm not aware of any surveys related to that, but that would be set. From the commercial accounts that we're looking at. >> Okay. I just wanted to ask question. Well, we've discussing. Thank you. >> While we're discussing the workshop and this is sort of a side issue. I went on my computer to watch the workshop and found out that was it was not available. My understanding was in the past. Workshops and committee meetings. Available. I'm told now that only the board meetings are are strained. Here was a workshop where they talked about rate increases in capacity fees that I think a lot of people were interested in and couldn't watch it. So anyone at j a as you're watching or listening, could let me know when that changed. And is it possible for the benefit of the public too, to stream your committee meetings? I mean, we stream here at the council, everything. Everything because I think the public deserves to be able to watch it at home. And I think we own j a and I think everything over there should be screened. So I'd like to understand when it changed and how we can get back on track. If someone can help me, they're okay. Item number 5 of the 6 request for attorney client privilege, MR. Teal, can you? Help us and kind of tell us where we are with the this Ross as well. MR. >> At the same workshop that wasn't streamed. They did take up the other 6 request to have the jta board waive any attorney client privilege that MAY exist between and Regina Roswell. She was serving as their legal counsel. And I made a presentation was a to do that MR. Factor made a presentation to the board. Ultimately what ended up happening was that they denied the request, however, MR. Packer at that meeting did offer up to allow Regina Ross to participate in front of this body. And so that is why she's on the agenda for next, the next meeting. But where they ended up was they did not agree to a blanket waiver of the privilege. However, they did say that if there are specific questions that come up out of this process, that's the sick would like to present to the jta board to see if they could do a limited waiver under any certain any for any particular question or under any circumstance they would be willing to consider that the did not or indicated that he was not going to put it on the agenda, the waiver on the agenda for the full board meeting, the regular board meeting. He considered the matter closed after the discussion at at the workshop. So that's where that stands. Councilmember Diamond, MR. Chair. I think that's totally ridiculous. I listened to some of the comments that the board over there made and I feel like they're looking at the Jacksonville City Council in saying we are going to do as little as possible to help your investigation into what you tell us is important. The people of Jacksonville. To that board, the city owns that entity. We are the elected representatives of those people. What you have the highs, what are you hiding? What did you tell Regina Ross that that cannot be said at this podium? I don't think there's a single thing that could have happened in a public entity with a public board in a publicly paid attorney that is covered by attorney-client privilege. >> These ridiculous. And then just say on this matter is closed is also ridiculous. It's not closed. We're going hear General Hospital, talker, then she's not gonna answer questions because MR. Going object and say that's a pretty claim to make a list of every single one of them. And I'm gonna go to that board and say why explain it to us. Why he's a public entity. This isn't going away. You can't board us away. I'm going to follow this one into the gates of h# # of a have to because it's the principle of the matter that they have to testify. They have to tell us what's going on the whole point of Florida law is that it's on the sunshine. It's uncomfortable. It's not fun. We've all been in this, but you have to. Thank you. Councilmember Diamond. Okay. Other items. I should MR. Till if you would send an invitation to MISS Kay before the meeting after >> I don't know the exact date of that, but that Monday at 1 o'clock. Meeting. So >> presents a problem everything just gets it everything it's shifted, right? Yeah. So let's let's go to Tuesday. What day is that? MAY 26, if you to extend an invitation for for MAY, 26 and a long would you like to consider? >> Adjusting the meeting. Time at all. Being that. That's a council Tuesday. Or would you like to keep the one to 3 o'clock range that you that you would normally meet on the Monday? One to 3. One to 3. They want to keep it at 1 o'clock. We'll determine. >> I don't envision a 10 o'clock meeting on that day because of the council meeting. But I think a 1 o'clock would work. Okay. Anything else, MR. PRESIDENT, you have anything. This motion she's asked for about 15 minutes of a of an opening statement, MR. Chair. Yes, I apologize. Before we leave that last meeting schedule. That is the day of council elections. And so that typically happens before the meeting. And so. And so just bear in mind that will have to switch over from legislative services standpoint into next meeting. So there's earlier aspect to it. I think why do we say noon? Noon to 2, 2.30, let's just say, ok, given time to switch over. That, going to work. Let's say noon. MR. Mosher, thank you for coming. We appreciate your attendance. And if you'd introduce lady sitting next to your place as well. >> I have with me. Pull that little closer to Dianne Moser, a chief human resources officer I have with me today are re Demers from the office of General Counsel. She's just going to keep me out of hot water. >> Can we start the clock place where? >> Before you Let me swear you in the presiding officer or in absolutely or the member the board, but it oh, I'm sorry. Do you solemnly swear or affirm to tell the truth? The whole truth and nothing but the truth under the penalties of perjury. >> And if I MAY introduce my team, I brought 3 members of my team. First we have Suni Lee. She's over talent management, Karen Arlington, over learning and development Rick Atkinson over he's over recruiting area. We call it has which stands for talent acquisition sections. So I'm I used has and recruiting interchangeably. I'll try to use recruiting. See you. I was requested to provide many documents and you should have all received package. Many packages actually of the documents to ensure that nothing got hung up because the files were to beg the first document that you asked for was to provide the total number ge employees, including a breakdown of appointed employee certified bargaining unit in employees and any other employee classifications. So one 0.1, 3, 1.3 shows just that it's the number of the appointed employees which is close to 500 employees certified bargaining unit employees close to 1800 employees. And then we have other employees would be just are managerial incompetence. Category. We also have part-time and temporary and they're on that list as well. 2 is a request to provide an organizational overview of positions and roles, including the total number of positions by department leadership level. And you've got We're showing 3 years. The first chart is for one. 26, you see the ceo and then the Chiefs that are listed there broken out to buy vice PRESIDENT Director manager, an individual contributor for a total. And currently we had a 2292 employees. Chart also shows for APRIL. First of 25 and APRIL, first of 24. So that your to your look back. 2.2 is for summary of title changes promotions and Reclassifications. So between APRIL, first of 24 and APRIL. First of 26, there were 223 title changes. 62 minorities and 161, not minorities. There were 393 promotions. 99, minorities, 200 and 94, not minorities. 9 demotions to minorities, 7 on minorities. And 22 reclassifications 6 minorities and 16 on minorities. 2.3 is compensation ranges and pay grades. So those are just sheets from our 5 collective bargaining agreements. And then you've also got the appointed and the and see ranges. Takes us to item 3. Item. 3 was to provide an aggregate workforce data related to diversity, including the number and percent of minorities in leadership roles. So we have about 25% of minorities in leadership roles. And that's all 3 years. Them minorities hired as a percentage of overall hiring. That number is higher at 37 or 38%. And retention. We have about. And to them at the other Ed minorities resign at a rate of about 43% to that. 57%, 9 minorities. But we also included those that didn't report in that category. So that category of minorities might be over inflated. And after that, we provided some more information on trends and hiring promotion and retention of diverse employees. So we want to make sure that you understand that we're committed jta to diversifying our highly technical workforce by partnering with community organizations, schools, workforce programs and professional networks. Our outreach through job fairs, social media and local engagement connects us with candidates across all backgrounds and career stages. Now we're on item for and that's to provide a summary of executive level transitions, including the number of executives managers who separated from jta and the general categories of separation and report in aggregate. So you could see from this chart that we've had 32 separate employment from APRIL first, 24 through APRIL. First, 26 8 were dismissed for cause. Of 3 were minorities. 6 were not minorities. The job was eliminated for not minorities. Resignation is 14 with 9 of them being not minorities. The other 5 minorities. 3 retirements, no minorities and then a temporary assignment ended for minorities. And the question is about discipline. What percentage or how leaders do we have that were disciplined? Because these leaders are all appointed what we would normally do as they were being discipline was put them on a performance improvement plans. So we have a total of 7 that were placed on performance improvement plans to mine to minorities, tuna minorities, and then 3 other minorities in the Hispanic category. So a total of 7 and then the promotions and demotions were provided previously on a different tab. It is an outline of any programs and internal initiatives currently in place to support employee growth and career advancement that lead to career progression internally, including leadership development programs. We're very proud of our training. That's one of the areas we take very we take great pride in it and we think it's very important to develop our leaders. We've got a number of leadership programs. So I we've got 4 listed on that sheet. We've got Allie 8, d which stands for leadership expectations and development. We have front-line supervisors. That's the Jacksonville Supervisors Association, which is one of our unions for those employees that are promoted into that. We have leadership essentials and then the employee development program. So those are 4 of the leadership programs that we have. Tuition assistance and education benefits. We do have a tuition reimbursement policy. The policy is in your packet. To open to any jta employee. Education should be job related approved by the manager and provided by an accredited institution and the reimbursement is limited to $12,000 a year for undergraduate classes and $16,000. A year for graduate classes and that's a calendar year. And the question is about workforce training. We have workforce training training the size, the leadership we've got what we call a Je academy. Those are really are soft skills. I don't like the term soft skills. I think it really underestimate how important these skills are, but we've got all all types training, soft skill training through the jta Academy. We've also got customized classes and individual coaching sessions. Then we have our technical side of training. We're obviously a utility. We take safety very seriously. And we have extensive training courses for those starting out as apprentices going beyond that. So these are these are. Training programs scheduled for many of our different technical positions. Then you asked about certifications. Certifications are very similar to the tuition reimbursement program. It's open to all employees. Obviously, if we require certification for a job, employees are able to a attend whatever training is required. Requires a certification and that's limited to $12,000 a year as well. And there's information on career pathways. We're also very proud of this. We've got career pathways 4.54 different class series. And that's over over 1500 of our employees are within any of these classifications. It's the majority of our workforce has a career pathway. An internal promotion in succession planning. We moved talent through structured career framework with wrecked roughly half of the roles filled internally each year. And then succession planning. We do have a strong succession planning program as well. And so each the positions are identified as to whether we need succession planning for those positions. So it's bat, a leadership position or it could be an individual contributor position that's really unique nature. Those are the positions that we have succession planning for. Now, we're on to item 6 provide utilization data for that programs, including employee participation. So participation in the reimbursement program. We've had 63 people and 24 116 people in 25 35 people so far in 26, they have requested either tuition reimbursement or certification reimbursement. After that, you have a list of those that have attended our leadership training. I'm not going to go into each of these kind of a lot of it information on this one sheet. But it tells you how many seats are open. And then at the number of protests participating employees and often times not all are seats are filled. And then we get into the participation in apprenticeship and training programs that's in there as well. We've also got required compliance training. We have training that's required once a year right now. I know I have a couple of trainings. They're sending my cue tip training that I have to take as well as security training and then, of course, ethics training is once year as well. But there are other chains that we offer. Compliance. Trainings that are required every year. Number 7, equitable access to advancement. Going back to those career pathways. We have formal job specifications that are ground in a bona fide occupational qualifications for each position and for the civil service rules. We can't have artificial barriers in place. So what we do is we look at positions in similar utilities and see what their requirements are. And we ensure that ours are supported by both the market and internally what you need to be successful on the job. And then number 8, the last item what surveys we've done in the past. We've in doing surveys since 98 99. And we've done numerous surveys throughout the years with the little break during covid for obvious reasons. But it's very common for us to do engagement surveys. Last engagement survey, the results were produced in OCTOBER of 24. And as you know, we're en engagement survey as we speak. Do you have any questions about anything that I? >> I think we'll go into questions at this point. I'm gonna turn over to Councilmember Diamond to go first. Thank you, MR. Chair can I to do this? Just wants through the chair. Yes. All right. Hey, mismo drive it. >> And it's new age is nice to see you today. So just a couple of buckets of stuff I'd like to talk about. So the first one is >> here's there. Folks who are working nj a who be covered by collective bargaining and then there's those who called point is that is that a fair way to divvy those up? Yes, sir. Okay. So how many approximately appointed folks are there? >> And through the chair COUNCILMAN Diamond, we have about 500 appointed employees and majority of the rest are union employees. Yeah. And cover by the collective bargaining, ok? And so recently we just y'all just went through like the collective bargaining. They're still one group that's left out. >> But there's essentially deals made with those folks. Is that is that right? Yes, sir. Okay. And the appointed folks, I hear that they are getting raises recently dozens of them is that right in the last month have any of the appointee folks been getting raises outside of the normal annual raise? So >> the point of folks get what's called a performance increase if they qualify for the performance they to get some additional dollars be on the general wage increase. >> Okay. Just so I understand this. If I'm unemployed a chief or something, how many raises what I would normally be eligible for in a given year. >> So you would get the general wage increase. And then if you qualify, you would get a performance increase. Case is not outside of the norm. We've been doing this spring. >> Years. Yeah. Sure said it recently. Have there been any raises our >> He's my complex fish. It's good and sorry. She said we also just did compression increases. Let's talk about that compression increases. How many of those were there? About 20 so compression increase? I'm going to guess is that there's usually a spread between management and union employees and that a compression increase essentially keeps that spread continues over time. Yes, Okay. The timing of these compression increases for appointed didn't have anything to do with the survey. To your knowledge now, during the discussions with the Union reps? Was there any discussion about appointed appointees, not appointed employees, not getting raises outside of the normal merit increase or annual increase. I was at the table for some discussions, not all discussions. >> But I'm not aware that there would have been any discussion because at that point we didn't know what the increase was going to be. That decision was made pretty much close to when all the the 4 were agree to hour increase was 3.5% where the received 4%. Okay. And I want to be fair just your knowledge. Was it ever represented to the union wraps on behalf of the collective bargaining units that there would be no appointee raises outside of the normal. >> Just like year-over-year roads, not to my knowledge, sir. Okay. Let's switch to kind of separation policy. Ok? So you've got the ceo as Katie, who's like, what the name of like the people who are like one block below her. They're called the Chiefs. Okay. How many chiefs are there? We have 7 of the 7 chiefs, how many have like turned over in the last couple of years. You now. I would safe. Theresa Inside then there. How long is that? I've been there since OCTOBER of 24 since 24, there's a turnover you want related to. Escape tenure? Sure. That might be. Just ask the witness which we what when did MISS Katie Stuart? She started, I believe in FEBRUARY of 24. Okay. I would encourage a pride a little late to turn over and such took over 10 years, Anderson. So I okay. Re Re asked the questions in Katie has been the ceo. How many chiefs have been have turned over? That would be 4 or okay and what is the policy for severance for a chief whose outgoing, whether they were terminated resigned or anything like that? >> We follow the state law, but it depends on the circumstances too. So state law says you can't get more than 6 weeks severance. Is that right? Correct. But some of them were getting more than 6 weeks severance. Is that right? Not to my understanding to any of the Chiefs that turned over when even simply kept on payroll for longer than 6 weeks after it was decided that there are no longer be a j. >> There were 2 that were consulting positions and and they were. Accessible anytime. The ga contacted them. >> One, they were accessible to jta anytime they contacted them where they being paid similar to what they were being paid. Yes. So we just paid how many executives were sitting in consulting role getting paid, essentially just to get a call whenever that was. We had 2 employees. You get that. It looks like a workaround to 6 weeks severance, right? It doesn't look good to do that. Understand, sir. The current Wilson, what did he get? Any severance when he left? No, sir, you are part of his termination. Is that right? I was not part of a determination for Kurt Wilson. Did you have any communication with him about exiting j dead over the a's. >> My communication happened the he did exit. He asked me to call him. And so I called him. And he. Basically said to me and no that he and Vicki have not been getting along. And this was on a Thursday. This was FEBRUARY 19th. So that he knows that when people are going to be let go, that they're normally let go at the end of the week and that Vicky gave I mean, look. So I asked him he was resigning. Yeah, or retiring. He said no, but he never came back after that. >> Got to. And your knowledge. What happened after that with regard to MR. Wilson. >> So that was in the morning of FEBRUARY 19th. And then in the afternoon because if he wasn't going to come back, then we need is to get them off the books. So at that point, I called him back in the afternoon and I I put the phone on speaker phone. I had Jodi Brooks with me and I I just let him know we're going to pop them. And that's the term for we're going remove his access from everything. We have to be really careful and utility. Have compliance issues. So if somebody is not planning on coming back to work, we disconnect there. Their access. He. Is interesting call because he was giddy and he said, well, I understand. And so he knew that he was. Not going to have access. He had his cell phone and badge and you said it would drop it off in the morning. Okay. So. >> Just just so I get this MR. Wilson that morning on the 19th he indicated to you that he thought he was going to get fired. >> That would be the impression I got from him. Okay. >> And then in the afternoon and he did get popped, as you said, what happened between decision was made to pop. And as you say, >> I did ask him he had any terms for his exit. And he said that he would like to get to a certain date in JUNE so that you could be fully vested gotcha. >> But I mean, why did you ask and that what is terms would be? Did someone tell you to fire him? >> No one told me to fire him. I got the impression he wasn't coming back. >> Did you talk to anyone about what Kurt Wilson told you that morning later on in the day, I Vicki And what does she say to you? >> think they had had previous conversations that he was going to be leaving You'll have to ask her about the details, but I don't think it was a surprise because he had previously mentioned he was planning on leaving at some point. Okay. I'm gonna jump up here. Just make sure I understand this. Did he quit or was he fired? He wasn't fired. So it's a charge view that he quit. Yeah. Okay. Was he going to be fired if he didn't quit? Not to my knowledge. Okay. What kind of employee do you think Kurt Wilson was? He good at his job? He didn't report to me. So I can't really tell you how good at his job he was. You have an opinion if he was going stop. I think her was really in terms of maintaining relationships. And that was a part of his job. Tracking. Okay. Who's Gerri Boyce? Jerry, is our communications person written communications. Okay. She know ploy. You are see a consultant. She's a part-time employee. Part-time employee. Okay. How many people a j a work in like communications as employees. I don't have the number off the top of my head. Can you give me like a safe 5? But I I don't really have the number off the top of my head, ok? Can I stepped just >> was pushed MS. Boyce brought back recently in a part-time role. Yes. I think that's ok. >> I'm at so why was ms Boys? >> Brought back. We need more help. Why? Because all this started so we need more help. >> To the city Council have any investigation means that you need more help with communications. >> current leaving everything that was happening. Yes, we need more help. We started getting bombarded with public records requests. Bombarded would be, I think, accurate were to use. Yeah, get more help. >> Yeah. Just emphasize public records request. What else was she brought back in to help with? Just wording. How to word things. Communications. Help me why did you need help? Just because there the volume or was it what was going out? Well, we're looking I mean, our people have different skill sets. And part of it was the volume. And part of it was the subject, the subject in particular like And I don't put words your mouth. I'm just trying to understand is it like trying to protect jta from whatever is out there in the universe trying to position in an accurate light. >> In an accurate and you feel like there's inaccuracies being said about j. Heard an Acura sees what inaccuracies. i knew that would be your next question. Actually. I just I do want to answer the question because there it's just what I think might be inaccuracies and there could be more that. There might be more than than I understand are now. I want to be fair. I'm just asking your opinion like what you know, what's in your brain totally unfair to ask you to speak for all day. And that's not what I'm doing. Just saying and I am Moser's had what was inaccurate being side east for about j. Yeah, I'm just gonna leave it at that. And that's it. I'll leave it to the Your honor, an obligation to answer our questions as an employee of j. So you're under oath as well. Ms and I'm here answering all your questions. Will not that one. So can you help me out what anchors? These were beside a j? Well, let's start at the beginning or the with the 2 biggest things that there's a racist and toxic work environment working under Vicki Katie. So I believe that that's an accurate. It ok, so racist work, environment, inaccurate, toxic, inaccurate tracking. What else? Anything else? That's a good start. That's good. Yeah. I mean, I'm not trying toss to hear, but is there anything else out there other than those 2 things? Well, Kurt Wilson tried to discredit me. I mean, that's something he did at the board meeting. In what way, sir? I don't actually remember. I was there, but I do remember him speaking about you. Help me out. Yeah. He didn't say my name. Exactly. But he said you can't trust that's okay. So. They're put that one off. Aside to those 3 things, anything else. That's it. So so can to Kobe Japan of course. She and this will be Santa right? So when you are looked her bring you his back did you look at other departments because you said that you really needed help in the marketing and communications where there other departments that you had considered that MAY have needed help at that time. Gerri Boyce is a retiree and we were familiar with her skills. And >> We called her up and asked her if she wanted to come back because she had worked as a part-time employee before. Know, we want to ask that question again. They for you brought her back had to looked at and evaluate it. Other departments that might've need it support or help. I did say that. No, we did not do that. >> Thanks. Almost done with these questions about So all in how much we paid has Ga paid voice. You know. I don't know off the top of my head. Okay. But it's about $100 an hour. We pay. That sounds about right? Okay. To your knowledge, has anyone at ga an employee or consultant done public records request of the City Council? I I don't have any knowledge of that. Just asked that. I don't know anything here. I'm just asking to your knowledge, has anyone at or any consultants trying to plant letters relating to the city Council in any public? Haitians are media stories. I have no knowledge of that. Okay. In addition to ms Boyce, j hired a media consulting group. Is that right? Yes. Who is that? I'm not sure their job title might. >> come in in the title. >> Former former at news 4 Jax Bachmann, gotcha. You know how much you're paying in? I have no idea. He right? And you know, they help me prepare. So he sat down, MR. Bachmann, he there is a j# # and asking several questions of you. Wouldn't categorize it like that. Is Iowa fans. I have to be nice to him. Big 10 fan, ok? So they just wanted to make sure I was ok, being uncomfortable. Yeah, it's none of this is 5 trust me. I'd rather be doing other stuff, too. I promise you. So in addition to you know, you don't know how much MISTER Bachmann's firm is being paid. I do not. Okay. So in addition to his boys and Mr, Bachmann's from is there any other consultants have been hired to help with media or all this stuff going on? Do now? Not that I'm aware of. I on unless the other questions on this topic. I don't have okay. >> only concern I have it just there seems to be an effort and you alluded to it like over the weekend. A letter to the editor. I'm seeing more media attention about j a and I think he asked you directly are, are these media people such as ms Boyster Michele Bachmann poor dating in any shape or form. Negative pieces on the on PRESIDENT Or on the City Council. Have you heard anything that effect? >> No, sir. And I'm probably not the right person to ask. >> Well, we'll get to that person, I guess. Go ahead, MISTER Time. Okay. I mean it just to be clear there. >> The reason why I'm asking these questions is I just want to get to the bottom of this that we can do our charge and there's effort by make it more complicated. I want I just want to know that that's happening and figure out why but okay, let set. Let's I like to get to kind of like surveys and complaints. Let's get to the heart of hr land. So who's Brad Croll kr? You know. >> Brad is former chief. He was our chief of Technical Services. What is that person do it? I call it like top of it universe. Are you familiar with MISTER Corrall being concerned about answering? And acquittal? Quote, anonymous survey, you have any knowledge of that. I don't. Would it surprise you that MR. Cold interest da's anonymous surveys such that he complains that I don't trust this, even though he's the guy who runs it. >> I don't know if that's true. But if it is true. I don't know. That would concern me. When it comes to just want to like talk to Eric Lee five-man employee. Let's assume I'm not an appointee. And I a few there from sir. Course. >> You're not concerned that the chief of it would be concerned about answering Ajayi a survey. Because he's afraid that. His results MAY be identified or something. I mean, that's the heart of one of the issues here. As you're here. Let me finish place that your employees from everything I'm hearing are petrified of responding to any type of survey, whether it's yours or hours, frankly. Because they're afraid they will be identified and you don't care about that. >> I talked to our current. Chief of ts and that is Steve Seltzers and he feels confident about the survey being confidential. And I can tell you how we've made it confidential. So I can't be concerned with what Brad said is, first of all, I don't even know if it's true. So that's what I'm not concerned about. So what I can tell you is that with enter gauge and we had lent in the past, we're using enter gauge now under their terms and conditions. And I looked into those right before I came over. They won't provide us information for each employee. It's in their terms and conditions. So this survey is anonymous. They would not allow us are confidential. They wouldn't allow us to do the survey. They thought we would be requesting that information. And then the other thing that we've done to make the survey even more confidential is employees can take the survey when they get the e-mail from an or gauge they can take that. 42 their own address email address and fill it out on their own computer. >> Sounds familiar, doesn't MISTER, too. We'll have MISTER Diamond. Okay. Trying to understand kind of that chain of like complaint. >> And so I let's am a union employee who's like working in the water division and ice think that my boss is doing something illegal. What are my options for reporting up that I see my boss doing something illegal. >> There are myriad of ways to report it. You It could go to the ethics hotline. So that would be one way you could take it to above that. Pass to another boss. You could. Could report Tire Labor Relations group, which is in my area could take it to an hr business partner and it depending upon the complaint, if it's complaints dealing with discrimination, it could come over to here to the Jacksonville Human Rights Commission. It could also come over to here to the ethics office or if it's related to fraud, waste and abuse go to the inspector general's office. Okay. So also state and federal places to take your complaint. Sure. She jumped, of course. So I want it. >> To ask this question. So when someone is recommended or you have a correction, active with employees do use in them, African Americans to MR. Moreland or how? How is To MISTER MR. Moreland, DR. Moreland. When their issues or if they were improvement plan that you have 4 employees. You just said a few minutes ago. Their different ways that they can go and share the information. I guess I'm asking you because a lot feel that if there's the issue or maybe some you don't agree with is that you send them to MR. Moylan and I'm asking you, is that true? Is that yes or no? >> I have one employee that I know that we sent to MR. Moreland related to performance. One. That's the only one I know of. One. Are you sure? I the only one I only know of one that you sent that anybody else. New team MAY be sent staff to his I only know of 1, 0, k. Thank you. I Kevin's on the kid. I'm sorry. MISTER PRESIDENT. Thank you, MISTER CHAIRMAN. I really have to get in the queue because I have Tdc committee meeting that started at 2 o'clock. And I'm getting. >> Lots text messages requesting my presence over there. So I can share that meeting. So have to leave. You would just want to echo some of the thoughts on the media company. And I think if that's taxpayer funded dollars for a media company that could be coordinating with local news outlets to attack members of this body, that we should probably have them in front of us to ask them question. So I'd like you to consider that. And I got to go check Tdc, sir. Thank you. >> need about MISTER PRESIDENT. I was the same with asking the questions. They're taking one's an employee. Let's ask them questions about what's been going on. But let's go as Moser. Thank you. So just go through the list that we've hotline. You can up your chain. >> You could go to. >> Labor Relations board, you can if its labor related you could h r you and of course you can do all of non je a ones oig ethics. The Human Rights Commission dollars. Okay. But let's just stick inside your ga options. I think my bosses stealing. It's going up the chain. My boss. Let's say I go and lodge something with the ethics hotline. A call. Can you do that anonymously? Yes. Okay. And then if someone says, you know this person x is stealing, who gets that? >> So first and foremost, I just want you to know the ethics peace is not under my area. Okay. It's in a different business unit in charge and ethics on while at Stanford is the director over our ethics hotline. And that reports up to Jodi Brooks. I have not heard her name and so long they made me smile. Okay. So that goes to Jody Brooks. To your knowledge, what happens if an ethics hotline complaint goes to? >> While Ed and then she gives it to Jerry Brooks? Is that your understanding? >> she MAY or MAY not give it to Jody Brooks. It it would depend. But if it's that sounds real, if it's related to something that might need a fact-finding, which is investigation and she might give it to my labor team and they would open up the investigation and then something could result in a >> I guess that's my question let move follows up. So it goes up to the ethics hotline. That will all be. And Jodi Brooks is bucket who has access to ethics complaints. You know. >> I believe is just while at that. I think. I'm not the right person asked that question. I was Brooks in 2 weeks. That sounds like it's her bucket. Okay. >> So when it comes to investigations, if there is an allegation of a problem, whether it's stealing or mismanagement or whatever are all those under your are purview. So outside it MAY be outside ag and outside of whatever goes to well, let for at The ix pretty much everything else fall within hr. Okay. Goes to an outside agency and then who runs the investigations. You have like a team for that. I do have a teen. Okay. How many people on that? Say 5, okay. Now if you've got an issue that runs up through hr, let's say I think my boss stealing. I then go to hr and I say, hey, Ms Bowser, live bosses stealing what happens with that complaint. So if it involves something like stealing, we're going pull in security and probably jso. Maybe that's an unhelpful example. I think by bosses doing something illegal but not great for management. Is that something you would handle then we would handle it, ok? And who has access to those in investigation files? It would just be my labor relations team and that up the chain has access. Also, is that right? All the way to ceo? The ceo doesn't have access reach our files. Now. Why not that I'm aware of. Yeah. How does this work? If I'm the ceo of jta and I want to read an hr filed, why do I have the right to read it? If she could come and ask to see the file? Absolutely in okay. Provide it unless there was some reason that she wasn't allowed to see the file. What will be a reason not allowed to see the fall. There was investigation opened up, you know, related to her. Then obviously that would be something that, you know, she wouldn't see. >> Gotcha. To your knowledge, how many of those are there? >> Right now we have 5, 5 complaints. They have come in since. >> That for this fiscal year. Yeah, I'm tracking so those 5. Who do you report up to that? And to manage an internal complaint about the ceo, like do you have someone who was it? The board chairs are somewhat above kv that works with you on that. I would go to the board chair. Okay. And have you. No, because there have not been any complaints. I just helping out. I think so. There've been 5 this fiscal year. So the the 5 pardon me. And she just as said, fine. So the 5 our field employees complaining about what's happening in their work >> And so Vicky, Vicky would not see those. >> I just want make sure I got this right. I'm not trying to trick us where. Were there any complaints about the ceo about the ceo doing their job or anything about that in the end will give it the last 2 years. There have been no complaints. Okay. That makes sense. Okay. So let's go back to the surveys. I want to sign a promise. See here the list u don't know just make sure I asked this. You don't know whether or not the ceo has access to ethics complaints. Is that right? I don't now. Okay. Come the law firm hired to do and outside survey Jackson Lewis, have you employ? Involved in selecting them. So Jackson Lewis is already on retainer with jta. >> And so you said an outside survey that would be an investigation. So are 2 different things. Okay. So what is Jackson Lewis hired to do? Jackson Lewis is an employment attorney. Yeah. And where do they have any relation to the survey being done? Now? Okay. Do they have any relation to the investigation being done? Yes. What are they doing for the investigation? Jackson Lewis found an attorney from Tampa that is working with us on through Ogc. So I really have no involvement except Aish. I'm sure I will be interviewed. But is working with dc on the investigation into whether we have a talk says toxic work, environment, gotcha. And then so. They're supposed to investigate. The toxic work environment. Are they also investigating allegations of racism? >> I believe so is what they do confidential. If I'm unemployed, ga and Jackson Lewis's person in wants to talk to me. Is that's private and confidential or the public. >> So investigations while you're doing the investigation, it's private. Once the result is out, whatever that report is that becomes public. So if I'm ace executive, let's say a j and I have witnessed a toxic work environment from the ceo or I've seen racism from other executives. My name is going to be attached to that after the report is released. It depends how the report is put together. Probably won't identify names. But I don't who who has access to the raw data. From the report. The access is going to go to the board to the board entirely. It's going to go to the board. What about the ceo? Will she had access to that? My understanding is reports going to the the board, not the ceo and then I would. Think that the board would then let the ceo know what was in the report. A case. Just one more question So then if I'm someone who is seen toxic work environment from the ceo or racism from the co. I'm guessing that happened. I'm just saying if I'm an executive who has or an employee you a# # . And I want to keep my job a j. How on Earth can I be honest to the investigator? If my bosses are going to find out by route of them out? If the reports put together in a way where the people are not identified and it could be in the report. Without a name. Head of hr. This investigation is going on. Is the name going to be attached to the raw data? I'm not involved in investigation or the report because remember, was discredited by Kurt Wilson. So I'm keeping my hands out of everything to ensure that something isn't viewed as being unfair. So is doing this work with the investigator, the office of General dc's running it directly. Okay. Would it surprise you that the first person interviewed by the investigator was told by the investigator that every single thing that they said, including their name would be made public. Would it surprise I don't know what. I don't know what I would have expected and I'm not trying to your b# # . How on Earth can you be honest to an investigator if MAY mean losing your job? I plan to be honest, but I just have a couple before go to MISS Pittman. I want to go back briefly to the FEBRUARY board meeting. >> You're familiar with what happened. Motion was made by Morales, not seconded. The board commented repeatedly several different members about a charge, the place to go. If you have a complaint, we think you should go to hr. We're not going I think th