Noticed Meeting CM Peluso RE Automated Surveillance Equipment

Good morning, everyone. Thank you all for being here. I call this meeting to order a time 10, 31. My name is COUNCILMAN Jimmy Palou. So I'm very grateful to see such a large crowd at a feeling that we have a good, a good group shot this morning. Going to go around the table real quick introduction starting with Kelly. >> Calling him see Council research. Red is speak pretty Norris for the administration. Shana Matt Dallas, office of General Counsel. >> Nick, Howland City Council at large group, 3 City Council district 7. >> On a holder city council elect at large. That one. >> grateful to have a city council member elect Holder with us going to be swearing in on Monday. I also want to recognize we have state Representative Dean Black in the room. He came here as well. We're grateful to your presence or areas in the back. All right. So you know this, this meetings got a good amount of fanfare and I'm glad to see such a such a large group of folks in here who I think kind of. Mere the political spectrum. And I think that's really important because this is an issue or isis. A conversation that's happening at the national level at the state level and at the local level about what are these cameras that have popping up a lot in the past several years? What what what kind of data do they have? What what relationship they have with law enforcement as law enforcement the best use out of them. And also is there constitutionality questions that that we should be asking and that, you know, neighbors and communities have been asking for a while now. And so I just kind of want to get as many answers we could at this moment. There's no draft legislation as of yet kind of kind of tinkering with ideas of what I would expect to file if we can. And so, you know, we have one of one of our attorneys here, one of best attorneys who also worked in the prosecutor's office for quite some time, which is a really good expertise on, you know. That kind of level of of criminal justice all that to if you do have public comment cards, please bring them up. I want to hear from as many folks as possible that we do have the room only for a limited amount of time. All right. So heading down the agenda goals for the automated surveillance equipment, policies, regulation and a possible temporary moratorium. So as we've been kind of looking at stuff from the policy perspective from city councils, perspective, I just don't know what as a county and as a municipality, we have the rights to do when it comes anything involving these cameras right there in the right of way public right of way. So one MAY assume that being in the public right of way. You have to get a permit or or there must be some sort of methodology as to how they got installed. And so first off, I don't know if if the mayor's office or some of the Sunday research on this as to how some of these got installed or if anyone has any. Knowledge of that. Bringing north for the Ministration. I don't have direct answers for you, but I've made a list of some of these questions will get. >> And back to you guys. Excellent. >> So seeing that was one of my first questions is who's installing these cameras and our taxpayer dollars being used to install them. Are there no taxpayer dollars being used to install them, but then when there's a subscription service, whether it be flock or when the other things. That's the of note here is it's not just flock, right. There are other. This is a larger conversation about kind of Cummings, automated camera devices so. I think what what what I would like to see. Minor draft legislation that I have. It's kind of. A couple different points. One is a an immediate moratorium for about 120 days on any new cameras being installed in the city of Jacksonville. 2 was a inventory of all cameras with the city of Jacksonville. New process to be drafted that last for public participation for when cameras do get installed or are going through the installation process, which I believe would go through the cpac setting. That makes sense, see packs for those of you familiar are the community, you know, the community groups that the citizen like groups we have, I think 6, throughout their throughout the city. And so oftentimes kind of land use and zoning issues go before the cpac. It's a good way for the public to be involved in the process. So, hey, if any new cameras are being installed, it has to go through and be briefed in front of that group. And then last thing that I've really been tinkering with, isn't that what I'm hearing a lot. Is how do we maybe remove these cameras? Now, the first thing I should note is as in my conversations with jso, they're very much in support of these cameras said they have helped lead to reducing crime to solving crimes, to ensuring that if there's a missing persons or something along those lines or or or someone who's in running running from the law that these value at. And I don't dispute that. I don't think that that is, you know, I think so long as one crime. It's all because of that. You could say, alright, I see the value in this. The crime prevention peas. However, it's just a matter of from the constitutional side. Well, we want to make sure that neighbors and those who live in the communities adjacent to these cameras, aware that there's a camera to begin with. And 2, if they don't want the camera right outside the neighborhood with in their neighborhood, what kind of process exists to not only give them as much information about the cameras possible but ways to potentially remove the camera. And so what I've been kind of tinkering with is if ever a neighborhood wants a speed hump. All right. I'm using a weird process here every neighborhood. Wants speed hump. They usually go through their city council member or go through a process where they get a petition. So listen from their neighbors. Then a more formal petition process goes out to the property owners and the select whether or not they speed hump or not. So I would envision if we were looking to remove a camera that it would go through a similar process that the neighborhood would come to their elected score through the cpac or through the city in general and just sort of, you know, a petition process. We go out to folks. They would say yes or no. They want the camera moved. As for how much of a cause for move the camera. That part, I don't know. Nor I know. You know what, what if public dollars to be used for move the camera for the up to the neighborhoods and communities. These are things I'm just tinkering with that. I've spoken to general counsel about and they are are doing their best to research this. Are there any thoughts or comments from my colleagues at this moment? Council PRESIDENT Helena? Yeah, thank you constantly. So I was in the office today. So I wanted already. And when I having this meeting, I want to drop by because this is a serious issue. It's a polarizing issue. I think it's one that. Israeli at the juxtaposition between public safety and privacy. I think it's one we shouldn't rush. In 2. We should have a kind of a community-wide debate on this. I know I've been talking the site's been council PRESIDENT. I'm also the liaison. So I speak regularly with the sheriff and his team issue such as this. And we've been talking to this issue and >> and the sheriff shares the same concerns. It's a very effective public safety tool, but he's concerned about misuse of data and concerned about protecting 4th Amendment privacy rights. And I think he's shown. Is for your tenure and the office for plus years that he's willing hold his own officers accountable and misuse. I think they've done that with David data and other things we have to think about those things as we go forward. We also need to think about the state has been clear that they want to address this issue. I current governor mentioned that he'd like to address I've heard the incoming governor mentioned that he'd like to address it. Governor view already chosen is always I have. I've heard the state legislature think about how they want to address it. So I think we need to think about the issue very carefully and make sure that we find the right balance. Listen to community concerns and ensure that we protect people's privacy rights. A council PRESIDENT Council councilmember elective any comments or thoughts on this >> You have to. But I just want to be an opportunity. Now feel like I have Now. Just appreciate the opportunity. Glad that the room is full. This is an issue that I've heard a lot about over the last couple weeks and months and a lot of concerns from all over. >> Jacksonville, from beaches, North side, South side, another something that we need to come into alignment on. But to appreciate the benefits of public safety with these cameras, but also understand the concern around surveillance privacy. So happy to be here today to hear more from the public. Excellent. Thank you. >> as we some sort of put you on the on the hot seat here, I'm seeing that a number of counties and cities within the state of Florida because, you know, if you look at the back of his hand out, it shows a very much it shows a number of municipalities and parts of the country contract was canceled with whether flock or one of the other private companies however, very few of them are within the state of Florida. Right? And so state law and it's a lot they have a lot of control of our counties or municipalities. So it is kind of better. You know, it's good to see stuff from Connecticut and Massachusetts, Wyoming but state state law in Florida's is very different. So I don't know because I'm seeing a few stuff in here from Tampa, Saint Leon County and Lake County. How what kind of rights that we potentially have that we are we able to say, hey, you can't build anything in the right of way, even if it's a public entity that can do it you have any thoughts on that. >> What other counties have done and what other what cities other counties have done other states. I have the distinct feeling that there is a lot more being done. It just doesn't make. An Internet search very quickly, especially when talk about the passage of laws, sometimes it takes, you know, our process takes 6 weeks, minimum. So sometimes it's just not actually in the public view quite yet. The second level on that. And it would be some that have to look at each one of these separately is just because >> municipality has passed an ordinance doesn't mean that ordinance is actually fully lawful because they MAY be split be having a policy declaration more than actually a change, a law. So I'd have to drill down on each one of them. And as to what can you do wear it depends on the what and the wear because of is it a state road is that city road? Whose camera is it? There's a lot really broad, detailed fact base question that I'm happy to dig into excellent. And we appreciate that. I I think it's something kind of work to get into. >> you know, actually state representative like, do you want to come up here and speak from kind of your perspective on this that it is not mandatory. Sarah, just want to give you that the time and attention. If you'd like. Have a with us. I think the city council PRESIDENT Said it well when he said we stand at the juxtaposition. >> Between security. >> And >> we have to be very cautious and how we proceed. We want to be safe. We want to make sure law enforcement has the tools to keep us so but we also want to make sure that we don't create the tools inadvertently in the service of security for one day police surveillance state to emerge. And speaking as your state representative, I know that many of my colleagues in Tallahassee share this concern. We want to make sure that. We remain a free people, but also a secure people. And so to that in COUNCILMAN, thank you for calling this meeting. PRESIDENT COUNCILMAN Elect. Thank you for being here. I think this is a very healthy discourse and I stepped in here before my other meeting because above all else, I wanted to hear what what you all have to say. And so the less I speak, the more value I will get from you. And so with that, I'll close and thank you, COUNCILMAN, thank you, rep and I do appreciate you showing up. I didn't want to >> put you on the spot, but I but I need you have some pretty good perspective on this. And you do have a district that is very diverse in terms of, you know, it's very rural and some parts quite line. New neighborhoods and our parts. I do want to dive in a public comment because I do think that's gonna maybe one last thing. Please go ahead. Coming up in case anyone make mention of it during public comment when I was talking Sheriff Waters recently about. How the state is likely to take a position on this. He said, well, there's no reason that we can't take a position now to shore up privacy rights. In the meantime, and I understand that there might be another councilmember considering piece of legislation that would potentially make misuse of lpr data more serious transgression. So a Class c misdemeanor or a company by fines and potential jail time. And that is a measure to address concerns right now about abuse of Lpr data then wait and see how state handles some other things. So might be some of those things which would be a proactive way of protecting privacy rights. In the meantime, while we have this discussion. Understood and yeah, I mean, I'm not here to necessarily rush things, but I am also here to recognize that we have an election in MARCH and then. Is JANUARY DECEMBER. Then you've got the new governor shows up and then eventually get that mean, there's a significant amount of time we're in. We're not as right now. And so, you know, I do want to make sure if even if we just do a moratorium until that point where the new legislature kind of needs, which I think is JANUARY what we should do, something I think I think we're about to hear from from speakers like I want to get their thoughts. We're going to go through pretty quickly just because there's a lot of speaker cards want to get people that 2 minutes time just because we don't have the room too long. Aaron Perkins. Next step after Aaron is Brooke. And what each speakers please say, your name. And if you're if >> you either I your address or if your address is on the card, you can simply say address on file. Give the red. >> Look for about everybody. Hear me. Aaron Perkins, 35 West 9th Street live here in spring from a bike, appeared trying to dense 3 hours of conversation. 2 minutes. Okay things is not being discussed and I'm a little concerned of is a fiduciary responsibility as its mapped out like we're setting ourselves up to have yet another asset that we have to pay maintenance people hurricane comes through. People are going to cut these down the newest and greatest technology comes out. How is that contract settled installed improperly only on the hook because of technician installed incorrectly. It's one big issue. We definitely to pause. Get that sorted out. The safety, the other regulations, other cities. This is a brand new tool. First off the assembly concept. We're making a ring camera system for the whole city and other cities are taking a pause button. We should too pull that this thing is going to involve other people. Municipality's are going to figure out the rights and regulations and how to use as we should be spending money and we shouldn't be wasting all the taxpayers time. If we're gonna do it wrong but Stitt back paws. Get it right. The first time in my world of air traffic, we put a new equipment system we do a safety panel and we try to determine is it even feasible or is it worth the time and investment? Are we going down the right way? Seems like this case. What we did put the technology in place first and now we're trying to figure out how we should to play. We pull back figure out how to deploy it and make it sensible last Want to get it when you're fast. Once someone last want to get across, is that the frustration you're hearing and its multiple places in the absence of information, people are going to insert their own opinion into that space. So we if and when we move forward with this concept, there needs to be clear, concise information, how it's going to deployed and people should have chance to ask questions, get answers, not not. I'll get back with you. There should be a clear information of how this is done so we can know how it's deployed. I don't answer my own fears into that space. Thank you for your time. It was a less than 2 minutes. Great job banner. And then Frederick. My name is Brooke 5 and oh, citizen concerned one of the points that I'm not sure adult totally dressed as the flock companies. Have been provided with access to driver's license information. That to me is definite concern. Initially. How do these companies? Rula get ruling or be allowed to install a private camera on public device. Public locations. And secondly, that needs to be tracked back. Are there any restrictions? Are there any requirements for that licensure and are there any limitations as to what they can have access to? That is deep concern because of that wide open. Technology like the flock cameras are essentially like a hammer. You can use it to build things or you can use it destroys things. It's all depending upon the restrictions or the intent of using that tool. And that's my concern. Thank you very much. My name is Red road off my address on the card. I'm here now to. Present my opinion against the broad collection, private citizens movement data through automatic license plate readers signal detection systems that just trace similar systems operated by private entities. >> first argument I want to make is that every person on their way to this meeting, like the best flock cameras, very recent history association. Data like this would absolutely have been used to target individuals for u.S. Mint. Lets them as political dissidents or to have the members of the false pretense. >> Can you get closer to the microphone so you can get recorded. Thank you. >> Recently we have been shown that the slippery s# # is not a fallacy. These automatic tracking systems are operated private companies and are beholden to shareholders who will push them to make as much money as possible. That means a constant flow of new products and services all centered around the collection and Adelaide at all is a shipment of the movement data of private citizens, the expansion of these networks to an artificially intelligent, but not to. And it's not that far from science fiction. A comparison of location data collected by cell phone companies often brought up the part words always left out is federal and state statutes. Requires specific legal threshold be met before those public. But for those records are obtained right now, all that needs for all right. Now, all that's needed for any office to accept civilian movements through the lpr is the case over. Again belabor the point all day. But the bottom line is this the average citizen should be free from government overreach, constant surveillance systems like these alprs collect every bit collecting every bit of moving from every citizen just in case is an invasive cancer. Thank you, sir. Tim Riggins. >> Followed by Michael Milton. >> for guns might addresses on file. I work as a senior staff engineer, the Civic Tech company. I followed much of the reporting around Flock and surveillance companies. And I grave concerns about security posture is that many of these companies about the actual design of the products to be able to. Like enforce restrictions on who can search things make make the they are designed to make it easier for law enforcement access to records. That's part of the value proposition. And I think that they they will always be prioritizing, making it easier over making sure that citizens privacy rights and constitutional rights are protected. Yeah, I don't think that penalties for misuse are likely. I have very little faith that that make much of an impact on privacy because if anything, it would just raised the stakes for. Police officers to, you it's just it's more of know I'm throwing, you colleague onto the bus and potentially putting them in jail, which is not something that police officer don't want to I also just wanted to add I would I would love for the much moratorium to include not just don't add new cameras, but let's also disable the cameras that we have for now, we even have wind down due to make their cities put bags over them. You can make until a public policy has been decided as as a community. I think that that would be a great way in the short Yet they're not violent. It was picked. 2 minutes. I'm very grateful. Michael Milton and then Ben Elk Horn. >> Hello, my name is Michael Nelson, archaeologist and study human populations. There's going to be some tax revenue from tickets that are going to be distributed from the system. But the value from the data itself, Facebook has revenue of 270 billion dollars a year from the free website. Why is it free? Well, it's not. It's taking your data and giving it to advertisers. Those advertisers then tell you what you want to fight. Tiktok collects data on American users. Chinese company has our data but we don't have data on them. Pokemon Go. A company that spent 10 years collecting your data. The parent company Niantic has sold itself to the Saudi Arabian government, not accompany government has data on where our children go after school and what they buy. They have our shopping habits or leisure activities. Could you imagine if we were to go to war with the nation that new what our behavior was during school shooting or natural disaster or celebrity death. And the question that I have to really ask is what happened, sir, data when Flock goes bankrupt and they have to sell their assets. Thank you. Thank you, Ben Alcorn. >> Followed by Laura Harris. Veteran Elkhorn Madras and file. I think it's a complicated issue doesn't fit into our traditional 2 party system. Like we've got a design. Like most issues do. So it's a little nuanced. And I Next thing I want to say is a moratorium is not a ban. It's just time pause. Take time to look at the issues and talk through, especially since it is a nuanced. Ishan are some pros. I've seen it work in the construction industry and cameras have been put on job sites and stopped. And help catch criminals. That of gone to job sites to steal things which makes affordability of houses higher, right? So I mean, there's real good case uses of However. You know, we don't want to give jso that, you know, the tools to do their job. We want to be safe. Identification harassment, privacy, liberty are issues that matter and they need to be discussed. And so. I think transparency is really the issue. This is obviously authorized and jso is budget which the law budget with online. You know that not a lot of people necessarily see. What is the cost of this because it is a taxpayer cost ultimately our taxes pay jso. All right. So some transparency there. What is it being used for? Is it just being used for? A license plates? I think jso made a statement that that's the case. I don't know if that's necessarily fully true or not. So transparency is the issue is this data being shared with who else has access to this data besides jso? For instance. Immigration, customs, they have access to the as I said You know, just wondering and we don't know the answers to that. All right. So I want to go back to a moratorium is not a ban. Annex of Laura Harris played by Matt Hammond. Matt, if just kind of prep. >> I am not an active this time. Just an old lady. Who retired. And I'm here to tell you about an experience that I had in 2022. Where one Saturday morning I went out to my driveway. My car was gone. Name and address, I it's on the card. Got that. Name please. I apologize. Laura Harris. I'm sorry. I'm not accustomed public. Speaking. >> And you're doing great. You got it already had a minute. And 47 If you don't mind, I'm just going to read this since going be. Consistently interrupted. My name is Laura Harris. I live in Jacksonville, Florida, in 2022. 1 beautiful Saturday morning. I walked out to my driveway. It was empty. My car was gone. I posted on Facebook looking for my vehicle. I feel for scheme claiming to have the ability to find my car. I paid them for help. Victimized again. When police eventually recovered my vehicle in a week or so. All my belongings were gone in their place were dozens. Of other people's credit cards, purses and wallets. Initially, I didn't understand why I was asked to retrieve my car from the suspect's address or the suspect's residence or why the police have not removed items that obviously did not belong to me. I eventually realized that I was being rolled out in just out as a suspect. I was one victim. There were many others. If Lott cameras had been in place, then that car might have been located faster and some of those people might have been spared. The theft and the months of cleanup that followed. I understand the privacy concerns were already tracked on our phones. We're already tracked on our phones. Our computers are streaming accounts. These cameras photograph was 2 That's 2 minutes. Could I ask >> afraid we have a very I got a large stack we created 2 minutes I would just like to add it cost me well over $5,000 understood. I met him my head. Please come up next up at U.S. And Patrick, after met. >> Learning about him and addresses on file. Obviously everyone has most of us are many of us in and victims of crimes. That's not the point. Question here this use of flock. Use of flock cameras. Other a apl, ours or any others devices have been around for many years or direct violation of her 4th Amendment rights. Harris, U.S. Supreme Court. U.S. First, Jones, 5, 6, 5, U.S. 400. That just court reversed. The concluding that admission of evidence obtained by warrantless use of gps device violated the 4th Amendment rights of this is pervasive. Warrantless search of citizens. Carpenter verse U.S. 5, 8, 5, us 2, 9, 6, the U.S. Supreme Court again reversed holding that the acquisition of Partners, cell site records was a 4th Amendment search. So the 3rd party. Basis does not hold here either. So another fox Wing, it are the states it. If the states holding this information, then it's public record. People can access it for themselves if they destroyed and 7 days than they are in violation of protecting state records. Right? Also, Florida has a anti stalking statute. It's 74 died. 0, 4, 8, Which makes it a crime for any person. This is a put more. Your office to willfully and repeatedly follow another person. If you see a present their absent. Hello, do you see a person All right. Thank you, Corey. Go ahead. Ask him. >> Good morning. My name is Allison Patrick. Addison Liberty. Patrick, in my addresses on file. And I'm sure there's going to be a lot more people who are going to talk about the violation of her 4th Amendment rights. So I will leave that alone for now. >> I do want to say. Something that I don't believe. I've heard anybody say this morning. Somebody did mention what happens to the data if lock or any other companies like Accenture, whoever purchases these like, where's that day to go? How long do they have access to the data? Right now? I believe some of it is in the aws Cloud. I think that's an issue. I think this could be a national security issue. I think this is a bad, bad, bad thing all around. >> We have people from all political. >> Parties represented who are speaking against this for, you know, for some reason or another. And it's we have to we have to pay attention to to all of this jso. Town hall meeting that they have for district 6 now is that they mention that there and 9 month backlog of just responding to body cam requests because of all the things that have to be redacted. So if we have flock cameras and jso has any control over those and they have to redact public information that sensitive. How long would it take us to even find out what they even have going on there for records? Requests of its were already in almost a year of the backlog. They also have drones. I think this is a slippery slippery s# # . We've got all the cameras everywhere. They're all talking to. Each other are being tracked. And now we've got the drones. So if you're not aware, go, look those up jso has deploying those in certain situations. So I support canceling the full contracts, getting rid of them and anything else that we have in that sphere. And if not, I support the temporary moratorium so we can just get rid of them now. Thank you so much. Thanks, Patrick. Jennifer Dean. >> Followed by Rachel Read about Herb about. My my thoughts. Jennifer Dean, I'm sorry. Jennifer. 2 minutes, Rachel, you're next. >> I good morning. My name is Jennifer Dean. Patterson, record. I want to make thing one thing very clear. I am not against security and I'm not against technology. I support technology that helps law enforcement protect communities and improve emergency response. But the security and surveillance or not the same thing. Security protects people surveillance monitors people. And when technology contract core collect store information about ordinary citizens. We need to safeguards before that technology expands. Technology is moving faster than many of our laws and policies. We do not know exactly what these systems MAY be capable of 5 or 10 years from now. How databases MAY connect, how artificial intelligence MAY analyze the information around information can be used tomorrow. That is why the public deserves answers. Now who owns this technology who controls it, who has access to it? Why is the information being collected? How long has it stored? How how are audits used? What happens if it's abused? That should be clear limits. There should be Clinton clear in its limits. >> Oversight, transparency, accountability and meaningful public input before surveillance technology. Is installed, expanded or renewed. We should be also asked whether the technology is actually solving the problem. Not every public safety problem requires another camera, sometimes better lighting staffing, communication. Emergency response are less intrusive. Technology MAY be a better situation. The question should always be what actually makes people safer while creating the least unnecessary intrusion of their lives. I support law enforcement. I support fighting crime. I support innovation. But I also support privacy, civil liberties and reasonable government. There are things there are things that are not mutually exclusive to make public safety matters. >> Thank you. Thank you very much, Rachel. About and then Marshall Branick. It been. >> Thank you. My name Rachel. Be about address is on file. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. This is my first time ever speaking at a public meeting. Excuse me, I'm sorry. You're going start time for meant. >> You are. Brought. >> I stopped. Told my son that was coming this morning. And I would just like to say them that I'm speaking his behalf. He's been taking civics class in public school. And I told him that it's citizens responsibility. So if I don't come to a public meeting and speak I know that he can. And so on. I do want to just mention that state Representative Black said that we want to remain a free people. It's important and to keep our freedom for security, security and safety in the spirit of our 250 th-birthday. I just would like to read that Thomas Jefferson said and 17, 74 that a free people claim their rights as arrived from the laws of nature and not as the gift of their chief magistrate. It seems that there's an emphasis government rights, municipal jurisdiction to install this equipment recently on Columbus, Ohio town meeting doctor via trend who has a Ph d in crime, surveillance and policing and at Ohio State University said on the record that he believes in his professional opinion, that flock cameras is basically investigating. Everyone is under investigation at all times. And he acquitted Kay did that to prescribe them. Sure. Everyone in this room. A certain movie comes to mind when you think of that so it goes beyond protecting 4th Amendment rights to be secure in our personal property and in our effects. It's been Thank you. Thank you. Marshall Branick. >> Followed by Latasha hubs. >> Good morning. Marshall Anderson File Council includes a first thank you for holding this meeting in taking the time to hear us out. And thank you for your service in the Navy. That's going to be important. Second. For context, I just retired from the Navy last month after 20 years, I spent that time aboard the u Geena before left Jacksonville and I we actually MAY have been stationed Jack or a Norfolk around the same time there's somewhere along the way. I also developed a strong interest in technology and data couldn't code called my way out paperback. But I spend enough time working with dad and I can understand how seemingly significant pieces information can be aggregated. And what that bring forth. So I'm not here simply because constitutional Burr order repeats some argument that you've probably already heard. I want to look at this risk created by collecting and retaining this data from a different for I'm sorry from a few different angles that I don't think I've received enough attention and public conversation maybe in private, but I'm going to say it out loud, atf. He training otherwise known as Anti-Terrorism Force Protection teaches us to recognize patterns and protect information routines. Routines, minimize or digital footprints and avoid unnecessarily. Revealing. >> Where we live, where we work. When we arrive, what our daily patterns look like. >> We do that because he's individually harmless pieces of information can become valuable intelligence when aggregated. We were literally stuck, told to stop using fit bits well on base because they map out our movements. Now, I understand that all these items mention aren't collected by flock and that a single picture of a license plate on the road is not particularly revealing, but thousands of them paint a different story. And the Supreme Court just ruled on recently with the Carter case. Now play that concern here in Jacksonville. We have an enormous military presence. If a foreign adversary associates, a person of interest with the vehicle and license plate access to retain lpr data or active feeds could turn into ordinary traffic. And answer observations. And, you know, understand. I appreciate and thank you for your service. Congrats in retirement. That option. After she's going Chad Charland. I get absentee and Latasha hops my address file. >> I want to take a minute a moment to speak about the importance of flock cameras in Jacksonville. As a mother of a murdered child. My son, Maurice Hobbs. As a mother of a murdered child fighting for justice for my son. Maurice, I understand firsthand how critical evidence can be when the family searching for answers. According to the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, as I stated at the last agenda meeting at City Hall. And the license plate reader cameras have helped saw 15 murders. 17 kidnappings, 6 forcible sex offenses. Nearly 100 shootings and 172 missing person cases since 2024, those are not just numbers. They represent families who need answers. Victims who needed justice and lives that were saved. I fully support the continued use of flock cameras because I believe public safety and accountability matter. I'm advocating to keep it locked cameras in use because I know what it feels like when the families left searching for Justice. I will continue fighting for Murray's. I will continue fighting for other families who deserve answers when violence into their lives. If technology can help law enforcement identify suspects. Violent criminals, murderers locate missing people, recover evidence and bring justice to families. And I believe we should continue investing in it while also ensuring appropriate safeguards and accountability. My son was robbed of his life. I was robbed of my son. My children robbed of their brother. I'll be d# # if I let anyone Rodney of his justice and justice for other families. Please keep up. The flock cameras. Thank you for your time. Go to action. >> Chad Charles and followed by Albert Stern. My name is Chad Charles and I live at 3, 0, 4, 6, be First Avenue in Fernandina Beach. >> And I am running for state House in District 15, which include cannot you cannot campaigners or not. This is part of even that isn't Haitian government district includes parts of northern and northwestern Duval County and want to drive from my home in Fernandina through Nassau and into Duval is I routinely do I am under constant surveillance from a network of flock cameras installed by local police and sheriff's department. I am treated like a suspect. The mass surveillance is unwarranted and performed without any reasonable suspicion. It is only a matter of time before this technology is turned on people like meat and I say people like meeting people in the political minority. I am non party affiliated, but I oppose big tech and flock cameras and data centers. I support and Florida law enforcement to 87 agreements with ice. And for doing all of this, I'm considered an enemy of the state as spelled out in a presidential executive order. I subject myself to additional tracking and targeting by speaking out at meetings like this, giving my home address to the very companies with a technology capable of tracking my every move. I'm an honest, I'm also an environmentalist and it has been proven that the state of Florida through the Fish and Wildlife Commission has been using privilege. Law enforcement tracking data and tools to illegally and without cause investigate. Environmentalist in the state. I'm a target. The people in this room are targets. These cameras make it easier for big tech in law enforcement and corporations to target track, harass us GOD knows what else in the future. The first responsibility of government is to protect the people. You can protect the people by removing these mass surveillance cameras. Thank you. Albert Stern followed by Dragon late. Name is Albert Stern. My address is on file. >> Having this meeting, thank you for looking at the moratorium. Please do There's a lot of concerns and I am deeply concerned about the men surveillance tape specifically. I want to speak about the flock camera company specifically. This company has created a system that has been abuse throughout the country. Even here in the state of Florida where people are using it inappropriately to stalk people. It is clear that that company he's not a serious security company. You wouldn't make something like that. Their ceo, its kind on record saying that they've made mistakes. But I ask it is to think about that company. They have been they are funded and their their startup funds comes from places like y Combinator Marc and Resist group. They're a tech company like every other tech company. They're gonna play by those rules. Once you get hooked on the heroine of this, they're going to change the price structure. They're gonna change. But the offer you and then the cameras going to be up there and it's gonna be too expensive. And what you can do, you can take him down thing. The other thing about companies, if they get hacked, every tech company gets hacked. This is a tech company. It's not a security company. Thank you. Very much, Sir. Blight. >> Followed by. Casey Jones. >> Hey, everybody, I'm driving below my addresses on file. And as you know, I've been advocating about this for several months now. So I think it's really interesting that we think that we shouldn't rush into a decision, but they showed up overnight dishes, the people installing them. By the way, I've seen dish a go-around, installing them, they are installed without breakway plates at the bottom, which means if a car hits them, that metal doesn't move. And that person in the car gets very hurt. It's also really interesting that we think uk waters will hold off Tuesday accountable. Charles Matter, William McNeil Junior, will Hayden, Asia Bennett have something else to say on that? We have a lot of concerns of people that can't be here. I actually have a list of the concerns that I've put in on file for all the people that couldn't be here because it's 10:30am. I understand we have to do it sometime, right. But a lot of people are working right now into the working people that are being tracked every day. Usually couldn't come here. Also, if you're other counties are doing. Pasco County has just canceled its entire flock contract even after the purchase of several flock drones and the replacement contract with Axon. It is not just flock is also acts on is also Motorola. Again, these are tech companies, not security companies, and they are not secure. Ben Jordan is a guy on YouTube, right? He's not exactly a huge ways, but he's able to hack into these cameras within about 15 seconds. I don't want to know what people that do this as their job and as the way they make money illicitly or otherwise can do with that camera, that data and that database. I am very concerned about the safety and security of Jacksonville. I am very concerned about the fact I have within a mile of my house. Literally more than 20. I they are pointed at children's homes. They're pointed apartment complexes. They are pointed at public pools. These should not be used for this purpose. And I don't think we can. Casey Jones followed by it Gonzalez. >> I don't. Casey 7 to 5. First re South Jacks Beach. All the trust that we the people have. They're all lost every bit. We're being tracked. >> I mean, is this is super scary. >> So we the people that want them gone. We don't want to restricted. We don't want to if you can't do what you're supposed to do and what is that? What are you supposed to You go to you that the cops want to do what? They want to look at. They want to track you. They want to see gps. Want to see your Google, whatever. That's what they got to do. It. Everybody knows what they got to do. So so let me ask you a question. How is the government dancing all over the 4th Amendment? Does anybody know that they're they're dancing on the Constitution because they're using a 3rd party. That's what they're doing. And nobody at of all the people to speak. And I appreciate everybody speaks, but nobody's vote of the Constitution in the 4th Amendment. This is what it's all about. They're dancing on the Constitution and the 4th Amendment because they're using a 3rd party. So let let me let me there was the clock at. 30 yeah minute. 26. So let let me quote our great governor state of Florida. And I know there's people on both sides. There's people on both sides that are against it. Not eliminating But let me let me quote our great governor. I think. >> These and these mean. >> The lpr. The license tag reader. He just got Cody yesterday. I think these licensed Hagley Road are out of control. That's what he The videos up on my Facebook page. So that's to answer. They are out of control. >> It here, Gonzalez followed by Robert Jeffers. >> Good Morning. Council members MAY need to hear Gonzalez. I'm a graduate public student at the University of North Florida. I'm here to talk about cameras. So the recently has said that we should compromise or privacy just so we can operate these cameras. I think that is a crazy statement to say, I says a student. I want to talk about how. We shouldn't compromise our privacy just so we can solve murders and kidnappings. Know I do have empathy and sympathize with you that your son was murdered. I'm so sorry that happened to you. But i think you know, so we should get to the bottom. The roots of this problem of why Jackson has so much crime lie. We have so much King inflated activity, I think instead of installing more rising our privacy. We should instead get to the root problem. And have more prevent violence prevention programs and we shouldn't have that money and serve spending flock cameras. We should spend that money more and after-school programs, things to prevent violence, having community members going to the community. And just spend it more where the money should be spent. I think having flock cameras as a waste of taxpayer money, we could use it to solve the homelessness v every I worked myself, I every time I go to class, I see a homeless person and it's just it's not cool to have that many as big as big as Jacksonville is. We should have this many homeless people. I also volunteered at a food pantry recently and so many people have to go and get So I think we can also try to lower grocery prices. But Robert Jeffers followed by Andrew Scott. >> Good Morning Council. Thank you for what you get is meeting. My name is Robert addresses on file. This MAY be the reference to some people but many people have gotten up here and talk about what to say. I can do, right. Hollywood has given us the script. We know what can do. When it when it is not put to good use. Hollywood is gave us a script. What can happen right? And we all know that it might be funny to some people, but it's not. I haven't taken a stance for dance because I think there's some very good things that can come out of flock cameras. I think that there's very good things come of. And I do believe in that. But then whenever it is used in a negative light. Problems can occur right in the privacy of our citizens are at risk and it can potentially harm us as a society. My problem is, is it this is a reaction. All right. This meeting is a reaction. There's thousands of flock cameras or the state of Florida right? Where was the protections at the beginning when this stuff started coming out to say, hey, we don't want that, that our state government not come together and say, hey. He's going to start. He's sort of stalling this and what protections are going to put before we start mass installing these all the way across our state. This is a very reactive instead instead of a proactive staying right. So now it's here. Now we have to deal with it. So now we're trying to figure out how to deal with it. >> So from here on out, I just want a statement. Let's be proactive. Jacksonville. I'm tired of being aggressive. Okay. We start thinking about things in the past and and how and how we want to move forward. But we can't we can't move forward if we're being reactive, we need to be progressive and be on the forefront of this. This this this this is a terrible it's great. We're looking at this and put a moratorium in place. Believe, but we need to be progressive and this and not reactive. Thank you. And under Scott followed by Deo Cummings. >> Good Morning. My name is Andrew Scott. Why addresses on file? I've been software developer manager for 15 years, worked in computer vision machine learning. So on a little bit familiar with this and like this is how you could please surveillance tape. This is basically a package deal. This is the data set that anyone who wanted to. Abuse would dream of. It is. All the state is on aws. Jack's MAY own it, but they will not control it. And I found online search saying that basically jso is extended their digger attention for a year. A year's worth of data. Flock since they're coming under fire is actually going back and recommended 7 days as a recommendation. Think about what you could do with everyone's traffic data. Correlating that with any other data set would. Crazy? So yeah, and I didn't even know before that that they had been given access to Dave The in the information. So that's another data set. But I just I'm really concerned about this because their tech company, all the protections in place, it can still be hacked. It will be hacked. It will be abused. And the data there. And we have no say it. Deal. Cummings followed by John Uni. >> And we do have to cut off more. This is last week on a card that hey, we gotta we gotta kind of go through public comment that I got a few more comments. I'm gonna make me have to adjourn. Go ahead, sir. Give 2 minutes. All right. Good morning. My name is Dale Cummings addresses on file. So I think there are 2 questions that have not yet been answered at a very critical that's number one. >> What is the actual efficacy in solving cases, crimes, etcetera. Number 2, how necessary our these devices in doing so. So there's not a lot of data out there. And earlier this month, jso posted on x and presumably elsewhere, number of cases of summer criminals somewhere people missing so on and so forth of cases that were solved through the use of help ERs. Interesting, but doesn't tell me a whole lot. So I did a little digging. Turns out in 2024, in MAY, they actually posted jso. Likewise on x and other social media of a particular case of a shooting in the Hogan Creek area where there ended up being no, no fatalities, no injuries. But there was a bullet that into a school bus full of children. They credited these devices in solving the case. And I think the problem comes with the word solved. So I did a little more digging and I went to that Duval clerk and I started digging up because they posted the names and I read the charging document as it turns out all of the information that they would have needed to arrest the 2 individuals that they did came from witnesses. Witnesses said this person did it. This person did it. This is what they were wearing. This is the vehicle they got in. This is a location that they went to the cameras. We're just supplemental. Well, there's more to that story because I did a little more digging and it turns out the 2 individuals at the time one was 23. When was 17, the 17 year-old unfortunately passed away earlier this year. Circumstances are unknown, but I can only presume if you're involved in a shootout when you're 17, that doesn't leave you a very long life. The other individual had their charges dropped 2 minutes, sir. Yes, thank you so much, Jon. Uni followed by. Sean Costello. Not seeing John. Any is John Costello in audience for the room. Hello. My name is Sean Costello. Mattresses on file. I think some of the previous speakers are you cover this? But just to reiterate, there's a flaw camera pointed at a community pool as a premier apartments. And I notice that during this, you know, meeting today and also all of flocks official information they're referred to as license plate readers. So it seems little bit like a reflect to me that we're calling them license plate readers by some of that work point. It in a spot where they would not be reading any license plates. And one of the speaker also mention that it's important that we understand how these cameras are being used, but also I think it support understand what they're capable of and again, like previous speakers have mentioned with ai. With a capable of today MAY be different. What the people of tomorrow. So it's probably quite a difficult task to. Clear what they're capable I think it's really important for the council. Thank you. Thank you, Nick Harding followed by Zeri Davis. On out there and overflow court. Number. You're at 11 30, I'll able to extend it You know, you know, you are noticed Hill 30 I apologize that can we can. We can only public comment and then. And that means you are outside of public notice. Let's all stick around. We are going to we're going to during this meeting will stick around and >> talk to anyone that has any more comments. We had a number of comment cards left. I want to thank my colleagues for being here today. This is incredibly important. I do intend to continue to move forward. I'm very concerned about these devices, but I do want to make sure that jso is a major role to play in making sure that they're able to to. Continue solve crimes. But there is a there's a line to beat walked when it comes to personal security. Personal privacy and law enforcement. So there'll be more to come in this conversation. I'm here to stick around that. Thanks. If you did not get a chance to speak, you can't know you can email me directly j Peluso Pl It's date on that. >> Those comments are you can also get one of my cards of thank yous meeting's adjourned.